Rugby Union 21/22/23 Discussion | RWC time!

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Rawls said:
I've predicted Watson but who really knows? I actually think this is going to be quite a weak Lions starting XV compared with previous years which probably makes it even harder to predict.
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Definitely agree that it is much harder to predict compared to previous Lions tours. The positions that are locked in certainties for me are the ones you’ve mentioned in your post:


2. Ken Owens
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Maro Itoje
7. Hamish Watson
8. Taulupe Faletau
12. Robbie Henshaw
14. Louis Rees-Zammit
15. Stuart Hogg
 
Well done Wales! Incredible. I think most would have had them finishing just above Italy pre-tournament. Deserved champions though.

What an incredibly entertaining tournament. Probably one of (if not THE best) I can remember. That England vs France game has to be one of the best games of Rugby this tournament has served up, then you have the drama of France vs Wales match and the match last night. Not to mention the red cards and some slightly controversial decisions. Really glad Scotland won last night though as they deserved it, and I really don't like France that much so it was some nice schadenfreude watching them lose the way they did.

Why Dulin didn't put the ball out I don't know. I can only assume he thought the bonus point for the 4th try would be enough for them to claim the championship.
 
Pro 14 final
BusbyMalone said:
Well done Wales! Incredible. I think most would have had them finishing just above Italy pre-tournament. Deserved champions though.

What an incredibly entertaining tournament. Probably one of (if not THE best) I can remember. That England vs France game has to be one of the best games of Rugby this tournament has served up, then you have the drama of France vs Wales match and the match last night. Not to mention the red cards and some slightly controversial decisions. Really glad Scotland won last night though as they deserved it, and I really don't like France that much so it was some nice schadenfreude watching them lose the way they did.

Why Dulin didn't put the ball out I don't know. I can only assume he thought the bonus point for the 4th try would be enough for them to claim the championship.
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Excitement wise, it was daft. Wales and Scotland will be the happiest nations I reckon.

Anyone think Munster can do it against Leinster today?
 
Very strong start from Leinster, getting multiple phases in the Munster 22. Incredible defending by Munster, but eventually there's a foul, Ross Bryne opts to take the 3 points on offer.
 
CJ gives porter a hospital pass, that was also forwards, gets what looks like a broken nose for his trouble. It's reset and play continues.
 
Munsters discipline, and decision making letting them down.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Excitement wise, it was daft. Wales and Scotland will be the happiest nations I reckon.

Anyone think Munster can do it against Leinster today?
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Scotland were excellent to be fair to them. They were brilliant against Wales until the red card, and overall they had a excellent tournament. Although it seems odd that they're only sitting in fourth! Doesn't tell the whole story really.
 
Attempting a quick line out in your own 5 metre line
 
Leinster missing that ruthlessness. Keith Earls out of nowhere.
 
What a ridiculous rule that is. Not releasing when there's no tackle.
 
munster somehow get to half time with a draw.
 
Worrying for POM. Been in the wars all game. Coming off now.
 
Has their been a harder working back than Keith Earls?
 
Mind boggling. A clearly struggling Ross Byrne opts for 3 points in the swirling wind when he can barely walk.

Its not as if Leinster have Sexton on the bench or anything...
 
Ruddock having a fantastic game. Baird with a fantastic first impact ripping the ball from CJ
 
Rawls said:
I'll list out the Lions team I think Gatland will start (Not necessarily the team I'd start) because I'm guessing a few people on here might be interested in predicted line-ups:

1. Wyn Jones (South Africa are going to destroy him in the scrum and there are better scrummagers around but this is Gatland after all)
2. Ken Owens
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Maro Itoje
5. Alun Wyn Jones (c) (I think James Ryan is the better player right now but again, this is Gatland we are talking about)
6. Tom Curry (Hard to pick this one as Curry is better suited to 7; I think it should be either Curry or Beirne but Gatland might include Tipuric or Navidi)
7. Hamish Watson
8. Taulupe Faletau
9. Ali Price (Weakest position within the Lions' squad)
10. Dan Biggar (Might be Farrell instead but hard to know at this stage so went for the Welsh player)
11. Anthony Watson (Gatland might go for Josh Adams or Liam Williams here)
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Jonathan Davies (Ringrose might be a better shout here but think Gatland will go for Davies)
14. Louis Rees-Zammit
15. Stuart Hogg
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There's a lot of tight calls but I'd go with most of your XV except Beirne pushes at 6, Murray at 9 (not an easy call at 9, Davies? Mehh).

Last time, I thought Gatland not only went for Wales players when it was 50/50 (fine ... go with the player you know?) but some who were 45/55.

As not coaching Wales any more, I think he picks vast majority of this squad regardless of nationality and the Welsh players that get in the squad do so on merit... the starting XV is another matter but I don't think it really matters. It's a squad game nowadays anyway and even more so on a Lion's tour. I think it was Woodward recently who said he had a XV in his head pre-tour and because of form and injuries, only 2 played in the last Test. When you add the opponent (and the likely hits/injuries) on top, they'll use 25-30, maybe >30, in the Tests?

* Wyn Jones gets in the XV on form
* Owens cert
* AWJ gets in squad easily and the XV
* Tipuric goes but a lot of competition there? Really impressed by Watson, especially going forward, ball in hand
* Navidi has had a good tournament, will go (not sure if in the XV though)
* Biggar def deserves place in squad and between him and Farrell (playing well, can cover FB if Hogg and Williams get injured) and aerial game is brilliant but 10 (and maybe 6/7) have so many top options .. Sexton, Farrell, Russell too? Farrell will go (plays 12 also), so Sexton or Russell miss out. Ouch.
* Liam Williams goes on form (and can play two positions well) but not sure he makes the XV
* JD cert
* RZ goes (can double up as schoolboy mascot)... before Josh Adam's stupidly broke CV rules, you'd have got long odds on RZ making the tour, never mind starting a Test.

Could see 7 Welsh in first Test.

Shame we can't pick one French player, Dupont walks in.
 
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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
There's a lot of tight calls but I'd go with most of your XV except Beirne pushes at 6, Murray at 9 (not an easy call at 9, Davies? Mehh).

Last time, I thought Gatland not only went for Wales players when it was 50/50 (fine ... go with the player you know?) but some who were 45/55.

As not coaching Wales any more, I think he picks vast majority of this squad regardless of nationality and the Welsh players that get in the squad do so on merit... the starting XV is another matter but I don't think it really matters. It's a squad game nowadays anyway and even more so on a Lion's tour. I think it was Woodward recently who said he had a XV in his head pre-tour and because of form and injuries, only 2 played in the last Test. When you add the opponent (and the likely hits/injuries) on top, they'll use 25-30, maybe >30, in the Tests?

* Wyn Jones gets in the XV on form
* Owens cert
* AWJ gets in squad easily and the XV
* Tipuric goes but a lot of competition there? Really impressed by Watson, especially going forward, ball in hand
* Navidi has had a good tournament, will go (not sure if in the XV though)
* Biggar def deserves place in squad and between him and Farrell (playing well, can cover FB if Hogg and Williams get injured) and aerial game is brilliant but 10 (and maybe 6/7) have so many top options .. Sexton, Farrell, Russell too? Farrell will go (plays 12 also), so Sexton or Russell miss out. Ouch.
* Liam Williams goes on form (and can play two positions well) but not sure he makes the XV
* JD cert
* RZ goes (can double up as schoolboy mascot)... before Josh Adam's stupidly broke CV rules, you'd have got long odds on RZ making the tour, never mind starting a Test.

Could see 7 Welsh in first Test.

Shame we can't pick one French player, Dupont walks in.
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I'm a bit low on Wales in general so I'd be less inclined to pick their players if I was in Gatland's position. They weren't as bad as they were made out to be last year but they're not as good as they're made out to be this year either. I'd be kinda inclined to pick more English players than their form warrants mainly because I think they can hardly play as badly in the Lions Tour as they did in the 6N.

I understand Wyn Jones getting in the starting XV on form but that South African front-row are going to cause absolute destruction in the scrum if they're not up against a good scrummager, and I just think he's going to be found wanting. The same goes for Mako Vunipola as well. Cian Healy might be too old so I think you either go with Rory Sutherland or go for more of a left-field pick in Joe Marler.

On AWJ, I'm not fully sold that he's a better option than James Ryan right now given their ages. But the problem with not starting AWJ is that you end up having a real captaincy problem, especially if neither Sexton nor Farrell are starting. That's another place where the Lions are much weaker than they have been in previous tours. You had Paul O'Connell in '09 and '13, O'Driscoll in '09 and '13, Warburton in '13 and '17, Sexton in '13 and '17. Looking around at the current Irish, Welsh, Scottish, and English squads and I'm not particularly sure I see great captaincy material there for the Lions outside of AWJ/Farrell/Sexton.
 
Rawls said:
I'm a bit low on Wales in general so I'd be less inclined to pick their players if I was in Gatland's position. They weren't as bad as they were made out to be last year but they're not as good as they're made out to be this year either. I'd be kinda inclined to pick more English players than their form warrants mainly because I think they can hardly play as badly in the Lions Tour as they did in the 6N.

I understand Wyn Jones getting in the starting XV on form but that South African front-row are going to cause absolute destruction in the scrum if they're not up against a good scrummager, and I just think he's going to be found wanting. The same goes for Mako Vunipola as well. Cian Healy might be too old so I think you either go with Rory Sutherland or go for more of a left-field pick in Joe Marler.

On AWJ, I'm not fully sold that he's a better option than James Ryan right now given their ages. But the problem with not starting AWJ is that you end up having a real captaincy problem, especially if neither Sexton nor Farrell are starting. That's another place where the Lions are much weaker than they have been in previous tours. You had Paul O'Connell in '09 and '13, O'Driscoll in '09 and '13, Warburton in '13 and '17, Sexton in '13 and '17. Looking around at the current Irish, Welsh, Scottish, and English squads and I'm not particularly sure I see great captaincy material there for the Lions outside of AWJ/Farrell/Sexton.
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I’d love to be wrong but I can’t help feeling we’re going to get hammered in these tests. As exciting as the 6 nations has been it feels like the overall quality has dropped a bit.
 
Rawls said:
I'm a bit low on Wales in general so I'd be less inclined to pick their players if I was in Gatland's position. They weren't as bad as they were made out to be last year but they're not as good as they're made out to be this year either. I'd be kinda inclined to pick more English players than their form warrants mainly because I think they can hardly play as badly in the Lions Tour as they did in the 6N.

I understand Wyn Jones getting in the starting XV on form but that South African front-row are going to cause absolute destruction in the scrum if they're not up against a good scrummager, and I just think he's going to be found wanting. The same goes for Mako Vunipola as well. Cian Healy might be too old so I think you either go with Rory Sutherland or go for more of a left-field pick in Joe Marler.

On AWJ, I'm not fully sold that he's a better option than James Ryan right now given their ages. But the problem with not starting AWJ is that you end up having a real captaincy problem, especially if neither Sexton nor Farrell are starting. That's another place where the Lions are much weaker than they have been in previous tours. You had Paul O'Connell in '09 and '13, O'Driscoll in '09 and '13, Warburton in '13 and '17, Sexton in '13 and '17. Looking around at the current Irish, Welsh, Scottish, and English squads and I'm not particularly sure I see great captaincy material there for the Lions outside of AWJ/Farrell/Sexton.
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It was an odd 6 Nations but England lost to every other nation that makes up the Lions - really doesn't help any player who's trying to force themselves into the squad/XV. In a 41 man squad, they'll have plenty but I wouldn't be surprised to see 3-4 in the first Test - but as I said, these tours are brutal and there'll be changes throughout... I'm guessing the midweek games will be no picnic either :)

Captain has to be a cert starter - AWJ looks likely (guy's driven, I think he'll put everything into what will be last hurrah) but if not, Itoje or Owens? I know what you mean but honestly don't see it as a massive issue given the experience (Intls, captaincy and Lions) ... Farrell, Sexton, Hogg, Itoje, Owens, Biggar, Wyn Jones, Henshaw, Jon Davies

Despite (and maybe due to) no 6Ns, Marler should be in. Wouldn't be arsed by anything SA say or do... probably give it straight back? :) Only issue is whether personal priorities would stop him touring (in same way they made him drop out of 6Ns)?

It's going to be great, there's nothing like a Lion's tour... it feels like that small group of men Vs a country. Watching a grown man (usually a giant) run on to the pitch with a toy lion sounds silly, but never fails to get me. On my bucket list and Aus in 4 years is the plan.
 
Johann has lost to Leinster 9 of the 10 times he’s played them, the last thing I want to hear is his contract is being renewed, what I want to hear is an offer has been placed in front of a man who was born in San Diego, to come back and change the culture.
 
christy87 said:
Johann has lost to Leinster 9 of the 10 times he’s played them, the last thing I want to hear is his contract is being renewed, what I want to hear is an offer has been placed in front of a man who was born in San Diego, to come back and change the culture.
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If there's any man you can imagine biding his time til the right moment, it's O'Gara. He'll make his next move on his terms I'd say.
 
Rob Penney has just been sacked by the New South Wales Waratahs. The Tahs squad for this season meant he was taking a knife to a gunfight but no coach can survive with a record of 5 wins from 19 matches and shipping an average of 40 points per match in 5 games so far this season.

Last night's 46-14 loss to the QLD reds will go down as his last game. While I am a Reds fan, I'll be honest and say the Reds could have scored 60 if they really wanted to.

Penney will be replaced by co coaches in the form of his two assistants - former Tahs captain Chris Whitaker and for Aussie U-20's coach Jason Gilmore. Gilmore was coach when Australia made the final of the 2019 World Rugby U20 Championship to lose by one point to France.

As for long term replacements - Eddie Jones - if he becomes available will have to be approached. Simon Cron, nephew of former All Blacks scrum coach Michael Cron, will also be a serious contender.
 
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