History will show the Grand Slams and the world cup semi finals (might probably have been a final had Warburton not been sent off). Nobody will look back and remember Ireland having loads of 2nd place finishes and the less said about our world cup performances the better.
Rugby Union 21/22/23 Discussion | RWC time!
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History will show the Grand Slams and the world cup semi finals (might probably have been a final had Warburton not been sent off). Nobody will look back and remember Ireland having loads of 2nd place finishes and the less said about our world cup performances the better.
Yeah in that case, I agree with you. An average of 47% reduction in impact force is not to be sniffed at.
Fair point, the only thing that matters is being the best at the most important time. Ireland beat South Africa 38-3 in Dublin in November 2017; two years later, Ireland were nowhere and South Africa were RWC champions.
Ireland are kings of beating teams who are at the deep dip of a between World Cups cycle. Other sides all take the years between tournaments as an opportunity to blood and develop new talent. We keep playing our golden oldies and convince ourselves we're being noble and paying the 6N / test rugby the respect it deserves.
Then we convince ourselves we're world beaters after we win a few games against green opposition and wonder why we get our arses handed to us at crunch time.
the recklessness of tackles is there for the referee to police. In that respect behavioural things shouldn’t change. Obviously the referee can’t prevent every head collision and that’s where the scrum cap provides some protection
I didn’t know the numbers until that brief search and to be honest I’m surprised it’s that high. Even a 10% reduction is worthwhile though, even a 1% is
I'm very surprised too because I thought the level of impact of tackles mattered and their brains shaking around in their head contributed to concussions, not necessarily even needing contact to the head to cause it. Great result if true though as long as it wouldn't encourage NFL style tackling.
My understanding is there are potentially hundreds of claimants in England and Wales alone. They're trying to build a class action like the ex-NFL players did in the states and my view is that a major reason for publicising this is to get more potential claimants on board. I 'm a lawyer so understand that the legal points are complex, especially on causation and what exactly the relevant bodies knew, but if it gets off the ground it'll be huge news. The NFL settlement is currently estimated to be north of $1 Billion so that tells you how significant this could be.
Personally (and it's only my opinion) I would be surprised if there wasn't a case to answer. Players have life changing brain injuries and the consensus, on the podcasts I've listened to with players of that era, and from what I've read at least, is that nobody involved in the game is surprised. Lots of them have admitted on these podcasts how scared they are about the future and the symptoms they already exhibit. If (again, as I have heard said on a podcast by someone taking a similar claim) the data on concussion was available and well know in the 70's, questions will be asked. The game has been pro since the mid 90's and the players we're talking about here are only mid 30's. The culture was, it seems that it's a badge of honour to get knocked out cold and just carry on.
I take your point on scrum caps, but perhaps the thinking is that if people perceive they have protection they'll be more reckless? Also, I'm not sure what level of protection that offers from hits, as opposed to cuts or swollen ears? Boxers wear gloves and they still end up with these types of issues. That said, any benefit is a benefit.
Clearly the game can only be made safe to a point since it's a contact sport. It's shocking though to see a man 35 years old who's not allowed to look after his kids because he can't be trusted due to his injuries. Some of the CTE stories in the states of ex NFL players are really shocking too.
Re: the bolded part. Isn't the argument then that if the players were aware of it or suspected it, that they are masters of their own destiny and can choose whether to play the sport or not? You may know this (I don't), but what exactly are they challenging, concussion protocols? Laws of the sport? I saw Steve Thompson say when he went public a few months ago that he remembered a training session where they'd done 100 scrums in one session, so if frequency is being looked at then is it the responsibility of the RFU? What about the clubs? It's a bit of a minefield.
There's some discussion on caps and player behaviour above, plus a linked study suggesting they offer significant protection
Lastly, yes I agree it's grim the state these players have found themselves in, especially as retiring from professional sport often leaves players feeling like they've nowhere to go, even if they're healthy.
The comment I have heard from a few well known ex-players who frequent these podcasts (although not those involved in the claims) is that they expected to have broken bodies, but never considered the risk of early onset dementia or or similar because it was never discussed. I can't remember who said but it was along the lines of "I expected a broken body but not a broken brain". I understand the point you make, but I take from it that at the time they didn't know but looking back, given what's happening now, the culture of the time and recent changes re head injuries etc. they're saying that knowing what they know now, they're not surprised.
I read that Thompson quote. Some of the other players of his generation have talked about being knocked out cold multiple times a season and being encouraged to play on. You make a good point and it is indeed a minefield. I suppose the issue is whether there is liability, and if so, to whom it attaches and in what proportion. The legal claim will certainly be complex but in basic terms, if the data was out there and governing bodies were aware of it, the question is; were they doing enough to advise on the risk, or try to limit it? Clubs, as you say, may well be dragged into this and frankly, that'd be disastrous for the game. I suspect few could afford to pay out on one or two of these claims to an ex-player, let alone multiple players.
Indeed. It's often made worse because a lot of this generation are not as financially secure as top players may be now and have to go off into the real world and find jobs to support their families. Scary stuff.
Carbery back on the field for Munster tonight 
Fingers and toes crossed for him to get through it and push on from here.
Fingers and toes crossed for him to get through it and push on from here.
What a finish to the Chiefs game
By the time Europe’s back we could have both carbery and RG on the pitchCarbery back on the field for Munster tonight
Fingers and toes crossed for him to get through it and push on from here.
Am I the only one giving Wales a decent chance of beating England a bit later on? I can see the match being tight, relatively low scoring arm-wrestle. I can see that suiting the Welsh.
I wouldn't want to be Andy Farrell at full time if Italy finish within 15 of Ireland in Rome in the early match either. It's a damning thing to say but this might Italy's big shot at winning at 6 nations match for the first time in what 6 years?
I wouldn't want to be Andy Farrell at full time if Italy finish within 15 of Ireland in Rome in the early match either. It's a damning thing to say but this might Italy's big shot at winning at 6 nations match for the first time in what 6 years?
Nah I think you’re absolutely right, I see a 50-50 low scoring shitfest. Having said that, England under Eddie tend to pull it out when they need to....and Wales will obviously be fired up to beat the english so you never know
Sam Simmonds was absolutely insane last night. Will make it even harder to watch the ghost of Billy being smashed by the Welsh back row today
Unless Wales manage to play a third game in a row with a man advantage, I can't see them winning this one. Don't think England are great, but I still think they're much better than Wales, who have been pretty awful this tournament. A fairly low-scoring game, but a comfortable win for England, IMO.
Ill discipline has been a theme of the first weekend of super rugby Aotearoa with 4 yellow cards (none for foul play though) and over 50 penalties in two games. Good thing the rugby on display has been pretty good.
I think it's probably wishful negative thinking from us though, since we really don't think he's up to it. I don't expect Italy to win. The first scenario could definitely happen though. We seem really, really inept at the moment apart from very occasional flashes.
I've no reason to think Wales don't have a good chance. They've been bad, but so have England.
So much of the premiership Rugby I watch has teams trying to play from the back & being aggressive while all the England Rugby I watch is kicking & chasing which is so boring
That's Ireland all over too. Offload city for the provinces, kick and chase for the national team.
Great article here about the years when Ireland were routinely beaten by Italy (and everyone else).
I don't really remember much of this because I was a schoolkid at the time, but I do remember being at a very grim Ashton era game at Lansdowne Road.
The days when Ireland couldn't buy a win against Italy https://the42.ie/5366750
I don't really remember much of this because I was a schoolkid at the time, but I do remember being at a very grim Ashton era game at Lansdowne Road.
The days when Ireland couldn't buy a win against Italy https://the42.ie/5366750
Pretty poor start by Ireland.
Well, unless something drastic happens, it looks like Ireland will have way too much for Italy. I have such mixed feelings watching this 
I know it mightn't be in the spirit of the game, but surely the referee has to start punishing Italy for these blatant penalties.
Much of a muchness I think, Ireland have given away stacks of penalties too. There were two or three in just that last minute of play.
Yeah, I agree actually. One more and he should be going to his pocket, if they continue to be needless offsides.
Hope everyone took the opportunity to make a cup of tea while waiting for this scrum to happen
You just watched Bristol? They’re a joy to watch
Yeah watching that game and it's great fun. Even in general though most of the big teams in the league try to play possession while England just bore me to death
Ireland are going to win this comfortably while still looking really crap.
I couldn’t agree more. It’s infuriating when we have a huge talent pool of decent players. Teams like Exeter and Bristol prove that you can find the balance between grunt up front and ball-playing behind
I wish we were 25 points up against a joke side in a dead rubber to we could chance a risk on Casey for 20 minutes.
I’d agree at the minute. Can be immensely frustrating to watch. But then football is way worse. At least I still find myself attracted to International Rugby but with football I can’t watch any of it unless it’s either the World Cup or Euros. Expect today to be a gritty one and if England keep giving away penalties again it’s going to be a long game.
I zoned out to be honest. I really wasn't enjoying it, so I had it on in the background while I did other stuff.
Itoje going for the personal penalty record today it seems.
Annoying ref. Allow the advantage to play out a bit at least.
Farrell was high there too, as usual
Quick thinking from Biggar.
Fair play, that was a really brave decision. Hope this is allowed!
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