Saracens on a roll, I'm off to Edinburgh for both finals, will be great!
Rugby 2017 Discussion
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Very impressive stuff today. Munster gave it everything in those first 30mins but it was so ominous when Saracens got through the sin bin so well.
Northampton also lost a game vs London Wasps a couple of weeks back that they ought to have won. After last week's bottle job vs Saracens, the Northampton coach kicked some water bottles that were on the sideline. Couldn't help but think of Jose Mourinho when that happened.
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Edited now haha. Oops.QFFS
(Quoted for Freudian slip)
So, I'm picking Leinster to beat Clermont in today's semi final. Apologies in advance @Rawls if i have put the kiss of death on your team.
On BT Sport, Nick Mullins said that Saracens spend time on the training ground practising for when they're down to 14 men. They had a player in the bin vs Northampton last week and won the game there too, so work on the training ground is coming in handy for them.
Not having Healy as an impact player to bring on in the front row and the absence of Sean O'Brien, a player capable of absolutely brilliant performances in big games, might tip the balance away from Leinster. We've played brilliant rugby this season after two years of pretty dull stuff so whatever happens I think the team is moving in a really exciting direction, particularly with Scott Fardy and James Lowe coming in, but today we have to keep the game at a quick tempo. I think Leinster have surprised other sides this year with how fit they are and how positive they are, if it becomes an arm wrestle I can see Clermont grinding Leinster down.
Gutted obviously but we were well beaten by an obviously better side.
Still had a great day out! The red army showed it's fill force and any Sarries fans we met we're good craic and very gracious winners.
This side has gone far beyond any place we thought they'd reach at the beginning of the year and they're still young in several areas. Hopefully this is the start of another journey like '99!
Long way to go to reach that level though. Saracens are a simply awesome team.
Still had a great day out! The red army showed it's fill force and any Sarries fans we met we're good craic and very gracious winners.
This side has gone far beyond any place we thought they'd reach at the beginning of the year and they're still young in several areas. Hopefully this is the start of another journey like '99!
Long way to go to reach that level though. Saracens are a simply awesome team.
It was extremely impressive. Their scrum kicked it up a notch and their defense was superb. I think they got a turnover or two in that period, didn't they?
PS the slip I meant is still in that post
Some try by ringrose
Leinster paid the price dearly for starting so slowly. Clermont were absolutely dominant at the breakdown, and Leinster's misfiring line-out did not help either. Leavy's hold on Rougerie was an absolutely monumental turning point in the game, resulting in a 10-point swing (Although it was the correct decision). Credit to Clermont as well on their kicking game, from both out of hand and off the tee. Speeding may have missed one penalty from inside of his own half and Parra may have missed a conversion from the sideline, but those two misses were very much excusable. Parra nailed the relatively difficult penalty which came from Leavy's hold, and Lopez slotted two very impressive drop goals. Parra' box-kicking was also exquisite, putting Carbery under all sorts of pressure. From the perspective of a rugby romantic like @Mitchell Nicholas (Who may have accidentally cursed Leinster), it was probably better for Clermont to make it to the final, seeing as they are very much the bridesmaids of European club rugby. Nonetheless, I cannot envisage them dethroning Saracens. My thinking coming into the weekend was that Leinster were the only side capable of beating Sarries, and that was only if they played at their very, very best. Today, Leinster did not play at their very, very best, something which was excruciating true during the first 20 minutes. I just can't see how Clermont's playing style will be able to overcome Sarries. Munster struggled hugely yesterday because of their one-dimensional attack. Clermont are more capable of going wide than Munster and are much better at offloading, but their structured attacking play is still heavily predicated on one-out runners. Leinster on the other hand were more capable of going wide with greater degrees of success, although they showed that much more impressively versus Wasps than they did today. Mind you, attendances increased from 35,000 to 90,000 from 2016 to 2017 over the two semi-finals so it's not all doom and gloom, especially for the organisers of the Champions Cup.
That Ringrose try was so good, sort of play that supports the opinion (and many others) that is was odd that Davies and Teo are in Lions squad over him.
Our attack has been far from one dimensional against sides like Racing, Glasgow, Leicester, Toulouse and in the league this year. Glasgow attack is even better to be honest but both us and them were unable to implement anything approaching it against that Sarries pack and defence.
Having seen it up close this weekend it is truly magnificent. All engulfing and suffocating to the extent you are reduced to walking pace and simply don't see gaps or spaces to exploit.
We weren't at our best but scarily, I don't think they were and could have stepped up a gear or two if we'd threatened them. I don't think Clermont or Leinster have what's needed to counter them this year.
Got Saracens as favourites for the final. I feel Leinster should have backed themselves to turn their second half pressure into tries. When Leinster was awarded a kick-able penalty to make the score 15-12, i was adamant they should have gone for the line out, instead of taking the three points. They had the momentum and i think Clermont's defense would have cracked. It's not my intention to turn this into a Northern Hemisphere vs Southern Hemisphere debate but i think the leading Super Rugby sides at 15-9 would have been more inclined to turn down a likely three points to make the score 15-12 and backed themselves to score a try. Clermont deserved their win after an excellent first half and showed enough poise to hang on when things got close in the second half. I also like Saracens chances of winning the Premiership and the Champions Cup.
I think Clermont would still have won. They way the managed the last quarter was superb, their intensity was just too much for Leinster and Lopez's drop goals were ice cold. I don't think either of the Irish teams can have much to complain about, and they can also be reasonably satisfied that they did the best they could, but it was not to be.
I'm not sure Leinster could have trusted their line out to function either, I think if they'd gone for the corner and failed to convert it would have really affected them so it made sense to keep putting pressure on a team that they thought might choke (Clermont actually closed it out brilliantly). The Leavy "try" was such a gutting moment, when he put it down I thought Leinster were going to win it and then suddenly Parra's kicking 3 points down the other end and Clermont and the crowd were reawakened.
I'm inclined to agree there. On the whole, Northern Hemisphere sides, club and country, tend to be more conservative than their Antipodean counterparts (Excluding South Africa, with the exception of the Lions and possibly the Stormers). This can be seen in general play as well, with the Northern Hemisphere sides less likely to use width. Mind you, one of the reasons why I think Super Rugby sides would have gone for the lineout instead of taking is the points is because (Controversially) the general sense I get from watching Super Rugby is that results are not the be-all and end-all. I think that Southern Hemisphere players put huge emphasis on International rugby and put a relatively smaller emphasis on Super Rugby. whereas Northern Hemisphere players place huge importance on both International rugby and Club rugby. That's just an opinion however so there's every chance that it's not right.
I'd love to see a game involving Saracens v Crusaders or Chiefs v Munster. Like to see what they do in Rugby League, Super League champs v NRL champs, just a 1 off game the Super Rugby champions vs Champions cup winners. I know Boudjellal, Toulon owner was trying to get this "World Cup of Rugby Clubs" started a few years back but never went anywhere.
Interested to see Sarries in the Premiership, league form hasn't been fantastic, 3rd at the moment. Suffered a lot from injures Mako, Billy, Itoje, Kruis and Ashton all missed big chunks of the season. Funny when you look at the Munster game they look unbeatable but the season has been stop/start for them.
Interested to see Sarries in the Premiership, league form hasn't been fantastic, 3rd at the moment. Suffered a lot from injures Mako, Billy, Itoje, Kruis and Ashton all missed big chunks of the season. Funny when you look at the Munster game they look unbeatable but the season has been stop/start for them.
I can't see how they can be stopped in the AP anyway. Wasps have had a good season on the whole but were very flat in the Champions Cup QF. Exeter started off very poorly, although they have recovered very well since then. Regardless, their coaching might be very good but I just don't think they have the absolute quality to best Saracens over 80 minutes in the playoffs, even at Sandy Park. Both of Leicester and Bath have been inconsistent this season, and I definitely do not envisage either of those two toppling Sarries.
@christy87 @diarm @unchanged_lineup @Rooney1987
What you make of the weekend then lads
Was gutted for you Irish boys was really hoping one of the teams would manage to make it.
As expected Sarries v Munster was an absolute war, some crunching and physical play indeed and Munster gave it a real go but Sarries are just so powerful, they were excellent I thought.
Sunday game was crazy, until Parra missed that kick to make it 18-0 it was so one sided. Was a brilliant fight back by Leinster and really thought they were gonna do it, unfortunately they ran out of steam. Two great games I enjoyed for different reasons but disappointed for both the Irish sides.
What you make of the weekend then lads
Was gutted for you Irish boys was really hoping one of the teams would manage to make it.
As expected Sarries v Munster was an absolute war, some crunching and physical play indeed and Munster gave it a real go but Sarries are just so powerful, they were excellent I thought.
Sunday game was crazy, until Parra missed that kick to make it 18-0 it was so one sided. Was a brilliant fight back by Leinster and really thought they were gonna do it, unfortunately they ran out of steam. Two great games I enjoyed for different reasons but disappointed for both the Irish sides.
Disappointed, I'm not from either province though so it won't hit me as hard as if it were my own. I don't think there can be too many arguments though with both results - the better teams won.
Also, to be honest I was very distracted during the Leinster match because my county were winning the Hurling league final
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Disappointed, I'm not from either province though so it won't hit me as hard as if it were my own. I don't think there can be too many arguments though with both results - the better teams won.
Also, to be honest I was very distracted during the Leinster match because my county were winning the Hurling league final
Aye cause I'm not from Ireland I won't be as disappointed as when the Warriors went out, but I like the Irish sides, clubs and International sides. Must be a Scottish-Irish tribal thing... Yeah I agree in the end the better teams won although for a period Leinster certainly made it interesting. So amped for the final now though, I can't wait to go.
Oh right, fair enough!! Which side is that then? I quite like watching the Hurling from time to time too!
Great experience to be at, but we never looked on form in the game, the start of the second half when Williams's box kicking was an absolute mess, was the nail in the coffin, i think we'd of had more of a chance with Murray and a fully fit CJ.
The big decision now is Taute or Saili both are out of contact only one can stay, Saili for me because he offers more thing forward
Aye I bet being at the game was mint like, I'd love to get to the Aviva one time for a game. I thought both half-backs were poor for Munster in truth and yeah Williams kicking was poor, too many times giving it straight back to Sarries uncontested and the pressure wasn't being relieved. I thought that, seen images of Murray in the crowd and he looked gutted. If he was playing it would have made a difference to a degree I think, certainly would have been more fluid and given Munster more of a chance. CJ not being fully fit certainly didn't help either. The man is a beast though, cracking player.
I'd agree with that, I think Saili offers more.
Yeah look as I mentioned above, I'm obviously gutted but it was clear as day that the better side won. We were totally outmatched and bullied in the end!
We managed none of the things I thought were essential to even stand a chance before hand and players like CJ, Taute and Duncan didn't look 100% at all. Even had they all been 100%, Murray fit and we'd managed to employ the tactics we needed to, having seen that Sarries outfit up close and in the flesh, I don't think it would've been enough.
I was a little upset that we didn't have more of a go and look to take the game to them a little more, especially when it became clear our kicking game was off colour, but in hindsight their defence is so suffocating and engulfing that they never let us enough space to try. I thought we should have given ourselves more of a chance to compete for kick offs and high balls, to bring the 45k+ crowd in red into play but even still, that would've only been window dressing.
Other than that it was a great day out. Sarries fans were in good form and very gracious in victory. I'd far too much to drink and was passed out in bed by half 11!
We're at the beginning of a journey with this side and we'll come back stronger for the lesson we were given on Saturday. Fair play to Saracens, they're some side and I can't see Clermont laying a finger on them in the final.
We managed none of the things I thought were essential to even stand a chance before hand and players like CJ, Taute and Duncan didn't look 100% at all. Even had they all been 100%, Murray fit and we'd managed to employ the tactics we needed to, having seen that Sarries outfit up close and in the flesh, I don't think it would've been enough.
I was a little upset that we didn't have more of a go and look to take the game to them a little more, especially when it became clear our kicking game was off colour, but in hindsight their defence is so suffocating and engulfing that they never let us enough space to try. I thought we should have given ourselves more of a chance to compete for kick offs and high balls, to bring the 45k+ crowd in red into play but even still, that would've only been window dressing.
Other than that it was a great day out. Sarries fans were in good form and very gracious in victory. I'd far too much to drink and was passed out in bed by half 11!
We're at the beginning of a journey with this side and we'll come back stronger for the lesson we were given on Saturday. Fair play to Saracens, they're some side and I can't see Clermont laying a finger on them in the final.
Am I the only one who thinks that Munster should let both of them go at the end of the season? Next season, Munster will have Scannell, Arnold, Farrell and Hanrahan in their squad, and all of them can play centre. Earls could play there too if Munster were stuck. Moreover, all four of them are Irish-qualified; you could then make the argument that Taute and Saili (Neither of whom are eligible to play for Ireland) are holding back players who could play for Ireland from reaching their potential.
Galway
Fantastic mate
congrats. Hope United can help make it even better for you this season then!oping the Lions score many great tries like these in the upcoming series.
Auckland Blues and All Blacks blindeside flanker Jerome Kaino has been ruled out for 4-6 weeks due to a knee injury. Involvement in the Lions series for the Samoan born flanker is serious doubt now.
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Highlanders 57 Stormers 14 - I'm very confident now that no New Zealand side will lose to an overseas team in New Zealand.
If I wanted to get into watching Super Rugby, which upcoming fixtures would you recommend?
Super Rugby: Mitchell's Picks!
Force vs Lions 11:55 am tomorrow where you are might having a look at. I'm hopeful the Brumbies vs Blues game on Sunday will be good but it'll pretty early Sunday morning for you. Friday, May 12, the Brumbies host the Lions. Saturday May 13 the Hurricanes play the Crusaders in a match that could easily be the final in early August. That'll be worth watching. Friday May 19, the Chiefs host the Crusaders, while the Stormers host the Blues Friday night Cape Town time. The majority of the Kiwi derbies are well worth watching too.
Many of the games New Zealand sides play against overseas teams have a sense of inevitability about the outcome, but they're worth watching to admire the way their teams play. The all Aussie derbies are of a poor standard - 51 handling errors when the Brumbies beat the Waratahs 5-6 weeks ago is testament to that.
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Cheers! I might be able to check out tomorrow's match.
The unfortunate thing about Super Rugby at the moment is the New Zealand sides are streets ahead of their overseas counterparts. The Aussie side that makes the finals will be making up the numbers only. South Africa have the Lions who are impressive but the Stormers, the next best out of the South Africa, have conceded 50+ points in both their games in New Zealand to this point. The only way i can make a case for a non Kiwi team to win the competition is if the Lions earn hosting rights for the final at Ellis Park. Even then, they'd be no certainties considering the altitude at Ellis Park doesn't hold the same fear for Kiwi teams that it once did.
@JPRouve Big game next week - your Chiefs take on my Reds next Saturday in Hamilton.
The Chiefs haven't been great lately, so I'm a bit wary. How have the Reds been?
Disappointing for the most part. Reds lost to a Force team that wanted the win more, pumped by the Lions, beaten by the Jaguares in a game where poor handling and yellow cards proved costly. Lost vs the Crusaders and Hurricanes but they were in both games and should have beaten the Crusaders. The most disappointing loss came vs the Brumbies when the Reds gave up 33 unanswered points in the 2nd half to lose 43-10, while the scrum was pushed back 15m to concede a penalty try which really shouldn't happen at this level. Last start though was a 47-34 win vs the Kings but improvement on that is badly needed and there's no better team to beat than the Tahs this weekend.