Rugby 2017 Discussion

Of the two most embarrassing things that can happen this year, SANZAAR has eradicated one of them with a return to the 15 team format from 2011-15. This year, there's the possibility the Lions could finish top of the overall table while avoiding Kiwi teams through the regular season. With the new format that can't happen. The other embarrassing thing that can happen this year is the Aussie conference winner will earn a home final despite possibly not earning enough points to make the final 8. Sadly we could still see a conference winner earn a home final while not earning enough points to make the final 8 if the finals were decided tournament points and tournament points only.
 
So today the ARU outlined their preference for the future of Super Rugby was and still is for there to be a trans Tasman competition between Aussie and Kiwi teams. There's no surprise there for me. Sadly for the ARU, the NZRU didn't want a bar of it and still value the the idea of playing South African teams. I don't see the ARU's stance changing. Games between an Aussie side and a South African team in Australia are poorly attended. From the Aussie POV, when Aussie sides play in South Africa the ratings on TV are down. Now, the cold hard fact for the ARU is if South Africa get their house in order at international and Super Rugby level, i don't believe the NZRU will want a bar of a trans Tasman comp again next time the format of Super Rugby becomes a discussion point. If the ARU are still desperate for a trans Tasman comp in the future, they need to make sure their house is order. Four Aussie teams who are competitive, improving the grassroots and improving coaching standards are a start to getting things right.
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
So today the ARU outlined their preference for the future of Super Rugby was and still is for there to be a trans Tasman competition between Aussie and Kiwi teams. There's no surprise there for me. Sadly for the ARU, the NZRU didn't want a bar of it and still value the the idea of playing South African teams. I don't see the ARU's stance changing. Games between an Aussie side and a South African team in Australia are poorly attended. From the Aussie POV, when Aussie sides play in South Africa the ratings on TV are down. Now, the cold hard fact for the ARU is if South Africa get their house in order at international and Super Rugby level, i don't believe the NZRU will want a bar of a trans Tasman comp again next time the format of Super Rugby becomes a discussion point. If the ARU are still desperate for a trans Tasman comp in the future, they need to make sure their house is order. Four Aussie teams who are competitive, improving the grassroots and improving coaching standards are a start to getting things right.
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I think the Aussies are playing a dangerous game trying to antagonize the South Africans especially with the latter bringing in the big money and Australian domestic rugby being of a relatively poorer level than its two SH counterparts.

As poor as Coetzee 's Springboks are, they have always been New Zealand's toughest rivals and the All Blacks love a challenge. I can't see them walking away from such a relationship.
 
http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/gb...pressed-with-nigel-owens-brand-of-refereeing/

Perhaps the first public disapproval of Nigel Owen's ''witty'' comments on the field. I enjoyed his ''this is not Soccer'' comment and when he told Stuart Hogg off for diving at St James' Park during the World Cup but i'm not keen on some of his recent on field musings. At the start of the year there was a comment to a couple of replacement props where he said “Is this why you’re not starting the game?”. I think he's very lucky that his refereeing is of a high standard to the extent where he is viewed as the best in the world otherwise disapproving voices might grow.
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/gb...pressed-with-nigel-owens-brand-of-refereeing/

Perhaps the first public disapproval of Nigel Owen's ''witty'' comments on the field. I enjoyed his ''this is not Soccer'' comment and when he told Stuart Hogg off for diving at St James' Park during the World Cup but i'm not keen on some of his recent on field musings. At the start of the year there was a comment to a couple of replacement props where he said “Is this why you’re not starting the game?”. I think he's very lucky that his refereeing is of a high standard to the extent where he is viewed as the best in the world otherwise disapproving voices might grow.
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Fitzgerald is getting only a 50/50 reaction here to be honest. Quite a few comments telling him to get off his high horse. Personally, I was gobsmacked by that above comment. I didn't really see the funny side of it.

https://www.facebook.com/IndependentSport/posts/1293845967364758
 
Aussie satirist Titus O'Reily sums up Melbourne's attitudes to other sports nicely in this tweet about the Rebels possibly getting the chop. This isn't a criticism of Melbourne, just a cold, hard fact.

 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
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I'm very happy as a Leinster fan that Owens is refereeing our Semi-Final. The only other real options for referee were Wayne Barnes and JP Doyle. Doyle probably shouldn't be allowed to referee Ireland or Leinster games anyway considering he's originally from Dublin. If Barnes had have been picked as referee, I think that would have been a major boost for Clermont as he would have been likely to not let the game flow, especially at the breakdown. Owens on the other hand has a more laissez-faire approach in general, which I feel will suit Leinster as they will look to take a relatively more expansive approach to the game. I'm not saying Clermont can't go wide (They can), but what I am saying is that Leinster are a better side than Clermont going wide, and Clermont are probably a better side than Leinster going up the gut.
 
The Rebels have beaten the Brumbies 19-17 in Melbourne to pick up their first win of the season. I hope that win doesn't aid them in their quest to remain in Super Rugby.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Interprovincial weekend here :drool: Leinster traveling with a "weakened" team, I really hope it's a mistake but probably will have enough to beat Connacht.
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Strong lineups in the Munster Ulster match. We have everyone bar CJ, Murray and Taute out there.

I've all my fingers and toes crossed for no injuries ahead of next week. My tickets just arrived and I can't wait for another semi final up on the big smoke!

Let's hope it's a 2006 style occasion and not a repeat of '04 or '09!
 
diarm said:
My tickets just arrived and I can't wait for another semi final up on the big smoke!

Let's hope it's a 2006 style occasion and not a repeat of '04 or '09!
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Fair play! Sure you won't be able to sleep all week :D

I was actually living in Limerick in 2006. I didn't go into town to watch it because I had exams starting the next week. Epic mistake.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Fair play! Sure you won't be able to sleep all week :D

I was actually living in Limerick in 2006. I didn't go into town to watch it because I had exams starting the next week. Epic mistake.
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I couldn't go to the final or to Limerick because of work but that semi final against Leinster, and the Sale match in the pool stages are two of the top 5 matches I've ever been to.

Wasps at Lansdowne, Grand Slam in Cardiff and the last minute All Blacks loss in 2013 are the others. Sale '06 is still the best atmosphere of any match in any sport I've seen though. Ridiculous night!
 


So funny to see Stringer (is it?) pulling the maul over the line from in front of it in the first try, what Henshaw got pinged for against Wales.

I had to travel back home either the next day or 2 days after the 06 final, the day after whenever they got the cup home. Centre of Limerick was like a post-apocalyptic wasteland and there was rumours that the cup had been kicked down the street from one end to the other :D

@diarm late changes today, Bleyendaal out
 
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Great win for Warriors against Bath :drool:

Looks like staying up is all but done.
 
Fella on a rugby site says someone in the WRU told him this is the squad:

Halfpenny, L.Williams, Hogg
North, Seymour, Watson, Daly
Henshaw, Davies, Joseph, Te'o
Sexton, Farrell, Ford
Murray, Webb, B Youngs

Mcgrath, Healy, M.Vunipola, Furlong, Cole, Sinkler
Hartley, Owens, George.
Itoje, AW Jones, Kruis, Launchbury
Stander, Faletau, O'Mahony, B.Vunipola, O'Brien, Tipuric, Warburton (capt).
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Most probably nonsense but it does have a Gatland look about it. Te'o and Davies would be poor decisions for me and I'd like to see more than 4 locks travel. Otherwise it's fairly good.
 
And now the BBC reporting that Launchbury and Joseph are set to miss out. If that's true it's a ridiculous decision!

Launchbury was the best player of the 6 Nations and Joseph is so much better than either Davies or Te'o it's not even funny,
 
diarm said:
And now the BBC reporting that Launchbury and Joseph are set to miss out. If that's true it's a ridiculous decision!

Launchbury was the best player of the 6 Nations and Joseph is so much better than either Davies or Te'o it's not even funny,
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I get Brown, Haskel, Robshaw, Hartley not making the cut. Even get Launchbury, I know he was amazing in 6N but I would take Kruis over him and the amount of locks to pick some world class players would miss out.

However Joseph missing out is a farce and shows up Gatland tactics for the backline against New Zealand already. Unless he's going for Daly at 13 he'll use his Wales tactics which will fail.

I do like Sinckler going on tour. He was very impressive coming off the bench and he can be used as a finisher.
 
Rooney1987 said:
I get Brown, Haskel, Robshaw, Hartley not making the cut. Even get Launchbury, I know he was amazing in 6N but I would take Kruis over him and the amount of locks to pick some world class players would miss out.

However Joseph missing out is a farce and shows up Gatland tactics for the backline against New Zealand already. Unless he's going for Daly at 13 he'll use his Wales tactics which will fail.

I do like Sinckler going on tour. He was very impressive coming off the bench and he can be used as a finisher.
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I've not seen much of Sinckler but the way everyone speaks about him, I'm looking forward to. Agree totally on Joseph and the folly of expecting a Welsh side totally incapable of beating SH teams to provide the bulk of a Lions squad.

Kruis is excellent and should tour as well but Launchbury is essential for me. He's one of those players like Murray, Sexton and Farrell who I just assumed were a total given as test starters.
 
diarm said:
I've not seen much of Sinckler but the way everyone speaks about him, I'm looking forward to. Agree totally on Joseph and the folly of expecting a Welsh side totally incapable of beating SH teams to provide the bulk of a Lions squad.

Kruis is excellent and should tour as well but Launchbury is essential for me. He's one of those players like Murray, Sexton and Farrell who I just assumed were a total given as test starters.
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JJ should be in, as should Ringrose. I could take JJ not going if Ringrose was going but the fact both aren't going is crazy to me. I don't think a Murray, Sexton and Farrell partnership is as effective with Davies or Teo at 13.

I think most of us had a similar reaction when they made Gartand coach. We all had fears on this tactics and looking at his backs selections sadly looks like it might happen. I do think his forwards selection is pretty good outside of Lauchbury. Mentioned Sinckler but great to see O'Mahony going.
 
This would be my squad and first replacements:

McGrath, M.Vunipola, Healy
Owens, George, Best
Furlong, Cole, Sinckler
Launchbury, Jones, Kruis, Itoje, J.Gray
Stander, O'Mahony
Tipuric, Warburton, O'Brien
B.Vunipola, Faletau
Murray, Webb, Laidlaw
Sexton, Ford, Biggar
Farrell, Henshaw
Joseph, Ringrose, Daly
North, Seymour, Nowell, Watson
L.Williams, Hogg

Standby: Marler, Hartley, J.Ryan, D.Ryan, Watson, Youngs, Russell, Roberts, H.Jones, Zebo

Test Side:

McGrath Owens Furlong
Launchbury Jones
Stander BillyV Tipuric
Murray Sexton
Seymour Farrell Joseph North
Williams

Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Itoje, O'Brien, Webb, Henshaw, Hogg​

Midweek Side:

Vunipola Best Cole
Kruis J.Gray
O'Mahony Faletau Warburton
Laidlaw Biggar
Nowell Henshaw Ringrose Watson
Hogg

Healy, George, Sinckler, Itoje, O'Brien, Webb, Ford, Daly​
 
I'll be intrigued to what style of play the Lions employ in the series. I was watching Northampton vs Saracens on Monday and i think it was Austin Healey who suggested a set piece dominant game would be needed. I disagree with that view as the All Blacks are very strong in the scrum and the line out which was once a weakness is a strength of theirs now too.

The last team to be truly dominant against the All Blacks was the 2009 Springboks who managed to beat the All Blacks three times that year. They were successful on the back of a great kicking game, a great defense, great goal kicker and a ball winner at the breakdown named Heinrich Brussow who made Richie McCaw look somewhat human. In two of those three wins, they were able to restrict the All Blacks to under 20 points. Restricting the 2017 All Blacks to under 20 points will be hugely difficult.

For the record, in 2009, the Springboks beat the All Blacks scoring 28, 31 and 32 points, scoring just five tries in total across their three wins. The three totals i mentioned might be enough to win the Lions the series but it won't be done scoring five tries across three games - they'll need 10 tries across the three games i suspect if they're to come out on top. Attack will need to be the order of the day. Ireland showed it in Chicago scoring five tries and putting 40 points on NZ.

An omen, the Boks beat the All Blacks in 09 with Northern Hemisphere refs - Alain Rolland and Nigel Owens who refereed two of their three wins against the All Blacks. Two of the three refs in the series will be from the Northern Hemisphere, Jerome Garces and Romain Poite. Maybe i'm clutching at straws there but any omen for the Lions will be clung to by me.
 
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Mitchell Nicholas said:
I'll be intrigued to what style of play the Lions employ in the series. I was watching Northampton vs Saracens on Monday and i think it was Austin Healey who suggested a set piece dominant game would be needed. I disagree with that view as the All Blacks are very strong in the scrum and the line out which was once a weakness is a strength of theirs now too.

The last team to be truly dominant against the All Blacks was the 2009 Springboks who managed to beat the All Blacks three times that year. They were successful on the back of a great kicking game, a great defense, great goal kicker and a ball winner at the breakdown named Heinrich Brussow who made Richie McCaw look somewhat human. In two of those three wins, they were able to restrict the All Blacks to under 20 points. Restricting the 2017 All Blacks to under 20 points will be hugely difficult.

For the record, in 2009, the Springboks beat the All Blacks scoring 28, 31 and 32 points, scoring just five tries in total across their three wins. The three totals i mentioned might be enough to win the Lions the series but it won't be done scoring five tries across three games - they'll need 10 tries across the three games i suspect if they're to come out on top. Attack will need to be the order of the day. Ireland showed it in Chicago scoring five tries and putting 40 points on NZ.

An omen, the Boks beat the All Blacks in 09 with Northern Hemisphere refs - Alain Rolland and Nigel Owens who refereed two of their three wins against the All Blacks. Two of the three refs in the series will be from the Northern Hemisphere, Jerome Garces and Romain Poite. Maybe i'm clutching at straws there but any omen for the Lions will be clung to by me.
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For obvious reasons I think we'll be going in with a very Wales-centric game plan and tactics, based on being bigger, stronger and fitter than the All Blacks.

For even more obvious reasons, I think this is a massive mistake. The All Blacks are big, strong and massively fit and come the test stage of an already long and gruelling tour, they will be bigger, stronger and fitter than we will be. The last thing that's going to scare them is sending big and one dimensional runners straight down their throats.

I think we need to starve them of possession as Ireland did in the Autumn and for large periods of the 2013 match. Kick only when we are confident of retaining possession from the kicks and move them around from the point of contact whenever and wherever possible. I'd agree that there needs to be an exceptional ball winner employed when they have the ball and we need to slow the speed of their breakdown ball considerably.

I'd also agree that their set piece is far from a weakness. Their scrum is solid (although Ireland did get joy there in the autumn) and their defensive lineout is the best I've ever seen. I think we should take it as a given now that they are going to steal some of our ball on our throws and look to counter this by attacking some of theirs. Players like Itoje, Tipuric and O'Mahony are superb springers and are more mobile and light in lineout situations than the exceptional Retallick and Whitelock. We can hurt them there.

The other clear areas to target are their midfield which although it contains some good names, is no more settled than a Lions pairing will be and their back 3 in the air. Ireland showed that their are vulnerabilities there and by picking big men on the wings and more mobile movers inside them, we can cause problems.

It'll be a hell of a task to win even one test down there, but this isn't 2005 and the Lions are nowhere near as weak, nor NZ anywhere close to as strong as the sides were then. Barring a few very unfortunate injuries to key men or a total lack of joined up thinking by Gatland and his team, these tests will be competitive.
 
Sky Sports news saying Jamie Roberts is going, I really wish I was joking. I might actually put bet on Cuthbert going.
 
Telegraph reporting squad of 40 expected.

Back three: Hogg, Halfpenny, North, Nowell, Watson, Williams, Earls

Centres: Daly, Henshaw, Teo, Davies, Roberts

Fly-halves: Sexton, Farrell, Biggar

Scrum-halves: Murray, Youngs, Webb

Props: Marler, Vunipola, McGrath, Furlong, Sinckler, Cole

Hookers: Best, Owens, George

Locks: Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Wyn Jones, Ryan, Henderson

Flankers: O’Brien, O’Mahony, Stander, Warburton, Tipuric

No 8: Vunipola, Faletau

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...dylan-hartley-miss-jamie-roberts-earns-shock/

Positives well the forwards outside of Ryan for maybe Launchbury that's pretty close to what I would go with. Negatives from that - Youngs, Earls, Roberts, T'eo, Bigger shouldn't be on that plane in my opinion. 1 Scotsman out of 38 after the year they have had is a joke. Just look at those centres outside of Henshaw and Daly, that really was worse case scenario.
 
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Rooney1987 said:
Telegraph reporting squad of 40 expected...
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I say this as a huge, huge fan of his but I'd be stunned if Keith Earls makes it.

He gets way too much stick and is criminally underrated by those outside Munster but I just can't see how you select him over Seymour or Zebo. Seymour is like the quintessential Warren Gatland winger and Zebo offers you versatility at FB and a brilliant creative option when he comes in as second receiver.

It's not popular but I think I'd bring Dan Biggar as well. I think he'll stand up well to the bullying tactics in the warm up games where guys like Ford or Russell could be targeted. I'd bring Ford as well though as I don't want to see Sexton or Farrell on the bench for midweek games.
 
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diarm said:
I say this as a huge, huge fan of his but I'd be stunned if Keith Earls makes it.

He gets way too much stick and is criminally underrated by those outside Munster but I just can't see how you select him over Seymour or Zebo. Seymour is like the quintessential Warren Gatland winger and Zebo offers you versatility at FB and a brilliant creative option when he comes in as second receiver.

It's not popular but I think I'd bring Dan Biggar as well. I think he'll stand up well to the bullying tactics in the warm up games where guys like Ford or Russell could be targeted. I'd bring Ford as well though as I don't want to see Sexton or Farrell on the bench for midweek games.
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Yeah I can take Bigger as 3rd choice. I would rather Jackson, he's been far more impressive and look so against NZ. If we count Farrell as a 12 I would have taken another 10 out of Russell or Ford. I too like Earls I would have take Zebo or maybe Payne. Seymour was outstanding in 6N he is very unlucky not to go. I'd personally not play Murray, Sexton or Farrell till the 3 NZ games. If those 3 go down or even 2 of the 3. Those centres though......
 
unchanged_lineup said:
What time is this announcement tomorrow? Can't help but feel it's going to be a bit of a letdown.
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Midday. I have a meeting at 10 and I'm not sure I'll be out in time. I'd hate to miss it because it's not quite the same unless you're there to see the initial outrage! The meltdown in Glasgow if Earls is selected ahead of Seymour will be spectacular!
 
diarm said:
Midday. I have a meeting at 10 and I'm not sure I'll be out in time. I'd hate to miss it because it's not quite the same unless you're there to see the initial outrage! The meltdown in Glasgow if Earls is selected ahead of Seymour will be spectacular!
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I reckon I'll be teaching at that time but I'll have a screen open as I politely pretend to listen to the student :D
 
Been leaked pictures of Warburton which looks like he is captain. Good choice as I don't think AWJ is a starter at the moment.
 
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