I'd be feeling pretty disillusioned if I was one of those players right now, particularly the ones who went on the SA tour!
Rugby 2017 Discussion
- Thread starter unchanged_lineup
- Start date
I'd be feeling pretty disillusioned if I was one of those players right now, particularly the ones who went on the SA tour!
You can't really blame them either. Schmidt seems to be very risk-averse in his approach. Now most people won't complain as long as you're getting results except we have been under-performing recently. Compare our squad selection with NZ, Australia and England. In my eyes, Hansen, Cheika and Jones are much more willing to chop and change, and are unafraid of losing in the short-term as long as there will be long-term gain. For instance, NZ handed a debut to Lima Sopoaga at out-half in 2015 away to SA with the Rugby Championship still all to play for. IIRC, they had Beauden Barrett available on the bench so it wasn't a case of being called up during an injury crisis. This kind of illustrates the point that other teams tend to be less deterred by risk and are more willing to focus on long-term issues. Honestly, how much of a possibility is there that Schmidt would start Joey Carbery in Twickenham say next year with a fully healthy Sexton on the bench? I'd say zero.
It has been reported that instead of a Barbarians match at Twickenham against New Zealand on November 4, England might play New Zealand in, to put it mildly, a highly anticipated test match. I appreciate the Barbarians concept is great but i would much rather see England and New Zealand lock horns. As things stand, the best teams in the world are only locked in to play one another during the November international window next year with no guarantee they'll play each other in the next World Cup. Can't have the potential of just one match between the two powerhouses of Rugby from World Cup to World Cup.
This seems to be a thing that happens to Irish coaches though, doesn't it? I can remember Gatland's hand being forced way back, and it seems to be a common theme that Irish coaches are unwilling to suck up short term losses for long term gains. The strength in depth Ireland have right now is a healthy situation, but it's not being used in the slightest.
Interestingly, the All Blacks had two cracks at setting the world record and failed. An 18 all draw vs Australia in Brisbane in 2012 and a 12 all draw in 2014 in Sydney halted their world record attempts. Both games though weren't played in great weather. The 18-18 draw was on a sticky, humid Brisbane evening while the 12-12 draw was on night where it was pissing down with rain in Sydney. On a dry evening in Auckland last year they did achieve the record. Ireland will be up for the game, i'm sure they'd get great joy in halting England's record equaling run. I look forward to seeing if England can deal with the pressure attached to the game for them.
Weather is reportedly going to be awful... an omen?
I was just thinking about this the last few days in that NZ coaches like Gatland and Schmidt aren't very typical of NZ coaches on the whole. Contrast them with Dave Rennie for instance (Chiefs HC in Super Rugby and soon to be Glasgow HC) who is renowned for his attacking play or Todd Blackadder at Bath. These two coaches tend to focus more on attacking play and tend to be less risk-averse. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that these two are much more representative of NZ coaches in general than either Schmidt or Gatland. This makes it seem odd that when NZ coaches go to Ireland, they tend to be more fond of the Northern Hemisphere playing style as opposed to the Antipodean playing style.
I'm not old enough to remember Gatland being in charge of Ireland so I can't really say if his hand was forced or not. On Schmidt however, I don't think someone like Nucifora is forcing his hand. Rather, everything Schmidt does is under his own volition.
IIRC, they would have set the record again had they beaten Ireland in Chicago.
The All Blacks don't appear comfortable in wet weather as it won't suit their ball in hand game as much as dry weather. They wouldn't be massively familiar with playing wet weather rugby as they don't often play in the wet in the Southern Hemisphere. England can play the ball in hand game but i think they'll be OK if the weather is bad too. Speaking of omens, the All Blacks failed record attempts came with South African refs, England's record attempt is with a French ref - Jerome Garces.
It's a bit vague for me, but in Gatland's first championship Ireland finished last with zero points. I was at Ashton's match in charge against England at home as a kid and it was grim. I can just about remember that it was seen as a big coup at the time, but it didn't click at all,he didn't seem bothered.
This article gives a good recount of Gatland's reign. An absolute hammering by England made him introduce a raft of young players who changed the course of Irish rugby
http://www.the42.ie/warren-gatland-1981914-Mar2015/
Only shame would be it's the opening game of the AI they are talking about, be great to end the series with it
Not certain to happen, ABs are leveraging their brand and from what i was reading asking for 50% of the gate money
Maybe, but England will be a decent wet weather side, very good set-piece, decent under the aerial ball - and with good kicking game in Ford and Farrell (and Youngs is ok with the box kick - Murray better)
Yeah, I wouldn't imagine England would mind a wet weather match with the forwards ye have either! I think there is a possibility that Ireland could get smashed like Scotland did. I haven't heard any updates on Murray either, I wonder will he make it.
Have you ever been to NZ? We play in some seriously atrocious conditions during the wettest part of winter. Rugby in the South island is played for most of the winter season in conditions just as bad as England etc.
Years ago we used to struggle playing against South African sides in South Africa because we spent most of our time playing in wet conditions. Wet weather is our bread and butter.
This was a fairly famous game, I was there.
England Team for Ireland game: Brown; Watson, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Youngs; Marler, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje, Haskell, B Vunipola.
Replacements: George, M Vunipola, Sinckler, Wood, Hughes, Care, Te'o, Nowell.
Rumoured Irelend 23 is same 15 as last week with Payne coming on to bench. Interesting if true keeping Heaslip, O'Brien, Stander I have thought O'Mahony would be certain to start.
Replacements: George, M Vunipola, Sinckler, Wood, Hughes, Care, Te'o, Nowell.
Rumoured Irelend 23 is same 15 as last week with Payne coming on to bench. Interesting if true keeping Heaslip, O'Brien, Stander I have thought O'Mahony would be certain to start.
Ignore that, Ireland team to face England - Jared Payne; Keith Earls, Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, Simon Zebo; Johnny Sexton, Kieran Marmion; Jake McGrath , Rory Best, Tadhg Furlong ; Donnacha Ryan , Iain Henderson ; CJ Stander , Sean O’Brien , Jamie Heaslip .
Replacements: Niall Scannell , Cian Healy , John Ryan , Devin Toner , Peter O’Mahony , Luke McGrath , Paddy Jackson , Andrew Conway.
Replacements: Niall Scannell , Cian Healy , John Ryan , Devin Toner , Peter O’Mahony , Luke McGrath , Paddy Jackson , Andrew Conway.
Big blow having no MurrayNo MurrayMarmion's big chance.
Even more sure England will win
Snapshot of what this evening will look like - grim conditions in Murrayfield. It's awful here out west at the moment so this exactly what Dublin will be having around matchtime. Loads of kicking and forward play on the cards.
Italian awful kicking yet again Biggest change O'Shea could make right now is finding a kicker. It's been demoralisation after demoralisation with squandered points in every single game this year, often at crucial times in matches.
Biggest change O'Shea could make right now is finding a kicker. It's been demoralisation after demoralisation with squandered points in every single game this year, often at crucial times in matches.Hehe, my weather related world record failing omen might come to pass. If Ireland win of course.
Ireland's box kicking tactic is most likely out with Murray missing though, Marmion doesn't do it very often. Another reason for him to be a big loss on a day like today, Murray has done it so well this season.
Will Italy ever change?
For as long as I can remember, I've been watching Italy compete in games early on, but miss the basic penalty kicks they need to keep them in the match.
For as long as I can remember, I've been watching Italy compete in games early on, but miss the basic penalty kicks they need to keep them in the match.
Throw in the odd very rare famous victory too, and that's their tale.
What's behind Vern Cotter's departure as Scotland coach? The progress they've made has been excellent and surely worth continuing. Montpellier is a lucky team to have his services.
France looking good. It's looking like a home win, Wales possibly lucky not to get a yellow there as well. Wayne Barnes just annoys me, zero charm.
I like Wayne Barnes because the Wallabies usually win with him in charge 
Bloody hell. What a crazy yellow card! Especially considering worse happened up the other end of the pitch. Barnes endears himself to me once again
Bloody hell. What a crazy yellow card! Especially considering worse happened up the other end of the pitch. Barnes endears himself to me once again
Feck off! I used to like you.
Feck off! I used to like you.
Haha, do you want France to lose??
Barnes is having a mare.
No, but Barnes is pretty one sided here. He gives penalties for Wales when the ball is available and isn't bothered when Wales don't really leave the area.
Oh, I totally agree, that's what I'm saying. Wales should have had a yellow too if the one for France was one.
Someone got called a "twat".
Hahahah it was so loud! The halftime people here giving Barnes hell.
Wales Barnes...
So now you can put your hands on the ground and then contest?
I think that's something that's come up in this thread before as need clarifying in the rules. Inconsistent at the moment.
There is no need for clarification, the rule is that you can't have more than two links to the ground.
Better application then. It's been very inconsistent.
Wales are very resilient. It's a great trait. They've definitely got the luck and the decisions today though.
They have a very good defensive line and their back row is impressive. Refereeing has been bad but that's not the reason behind France's struggles.