RufRTs Obama Windup

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its not a case of people Not wanting health care reform. People want Real health care reform. Many people do want a public option. But the current bill does not have it because of two or three votes. Now the blame for not getting the votes can be left at Obama's feet, though he can say he did not have the votes.

Still the bill that is out there is better than status quo.

Lets remember..there is dissatisfaction on both the left and right and it is crushing the Dems.
 
I posted before I saw your post ruf.

good read.

Red,

I think most people are underestimating the disdain for healthcare reform in its proposed guise...or overestimating the support as evidenced by Raoul's assessment of the situation.

The numbers on the ground tell the story....
 
Red,

I think most people are underestimating the disdain for healthcare reform in its proposed guise...or overestimating the support as evidenced by Raoul's assessment of the situation.

The numbers on the ground tell the story....

many don't understand how the bill will affect them.

a lot of misinformation or disinformation if you want to call it that.

a point about people not wanting their health care being affected. what they mean is, they are not really happy with it...rising costs etc. but they are afraid they cannot see the same doctors or in some way have to go to some public clinic and such.

also the delay in some of these changes coming into affect makes some just fed up.

at least two things I liked was that people cannot go bankrupt because of illness and no lifetime caps or no pre-existing condition clauses.

we need to make a start somewhere. I just wish the arsehole pundits will just breakdown the Facts instead of sensationalizing everything.
 
Lets tally the score shall we ?

Copenhagen Obama Visit = Fail

Chicago Olympic Bid Obama Visit = Fail

New Jersey Governors Race Obama Visit = Fail

Virginia Governors Race Obama Visit = Fail

Massachusetts Senate Race Obama Visit = ?????


A new kind of politics :lol:

How credible!!

As I mentioned before I am not sure Obama will be a successful president and he might very well fail on several aspects , but I was expecting to assess his work through major policies like the economy, education, healthcare, foreign policy and the norm not an Olympic bid and other politicians election races!!!!

Obviously you're on a hurry or in desperation or both to prove his failure
 
How credible!!

As I mentioned before I am not sure Obama will be a successful president and he might very well fail on several aspects , but I was expecting to asses his work through major policies like the economy, education, healthcare, foreign policy and the norm not an Olympic bid and other politicians election races!!!!

Obviously you're on a hurry or in desperation or both to prove his failure

I was always dubious of him like you whilst he was running as this senator less than one term in Washington making it sound so easy that he could change a country that obviously no one else in the White House or Congress has been able to, with more than a reminder of Blair coming through. I agree also that he should on the major issues, issues that he as President has under his control as part of the lawmaking process rather than elections of others and decisions made by foreign committees.

The thing is Obama had to begin the road to healthcare immediately, as it was always going to be a long trek in a political system that doesn't allow for long treks as every senator and house member will have to be getting into overdrive now to get their funding in order to run for re-election - isn't it in May when primaries are held for congressional seats?
 
Grim reading for dumbocrats....

David Catanese David Catanese – Mon Jan 18, 4:01 pm ET
A new InsiderAdvantage poll conducted exclusively for POLITICO shows Republican Scott Brown holding a 9-point advantage over Martha Coakley a day before Massachusetts voters trek to the ballot box to choose a new senator.

According to the survey conducted Sunday evening by the non-partisan firm, Brown leads the Democratic attorney general 52 percent to 43 percent.

The results came as Suffolk University in Boston released a survey Monday reporting that Brown surged to a double-digit lead in three Massachusetts communities identified as bellwethers because party registration in those cities is similar to the statewide voter makeup and because in the most recent “like election” – the November 2006 Senate race– the results in all three communities were within 1 percentage point of the actual statewide results for each candidate.

"I actually think the bottom is falling out," said InsiderAdvantage CEO Matt Towery, referring to Coakley's fall in the polls over the last ten days. "I think that this candidate is in freefall. Clearly this race is imploding for her."

The numbers show males and independents overwhelmingly breaking for Brown, who has married his GQ looks with a populist tone in a pick-up truck on the campaign trail.

Brown holds a 15-point lead among males and crushes Coakley by 41 points among self-described independents, a group that's been steadily inching away from the Democratic party over the last year due to growing apprehension with government spending, bailouts and health care reform.
"Men are not going to vote for Coakley at all. You have a very angry male voter who's repudiating whatever is being said in Washington and they're taking it out on this woman. And independents are clearly going to the Republican in droves. What's left are the Democratic voters," said Towery, who is a former aide to Newt Gingrich.

And the survey shows almost a quarter of Democratic voters lining up with Brown.

A DailyKos/Research 2000 poll released Monday painted a much tighter campaign, showing the race knotted at 48 percent each.

"We're about to learn whether Obama can deliver electoral votes," wrote DailyKos founder Markos Moulitsas on his Twitter page.

But that three-day survey was conducted between Friday and Sunday, whereas the entire InsiderAdvantage phone survey of 804 likely registered voters was completed Sunday night.

Towery noted his polling indicates President Barack Obama's Sunday visit to the Bay State for Coakley won't be enough to pull her over the finish line.

"When there's a nine-point difference, it's awfully hard to shave off enough to win," Towery said. "The older voters are even tied. And the youngest voters have turned against the Democrats," he said, pointing to Brown's 61 to 30 percent lead among voters 18 to 29 years old. (Voters 65 and older, typically a key Democratic constituency, are divided between the two contenders, 48 percent a piece).

InsiderAdvantage's polling pool was made up of 20 percent Republicans and 43 percent of Democrats, though estimates show that independents make up just over 50 percent of all Massachusetts voters. "It'd be even worse for (Coakley) if we weighed it towards more independents," Towery said.

Other election eve polling is also tracking towards Brown. The Republican pollster, American Research Group, pins Brown's lead at 7 points, 52 to 45 percent, in a three-day survey released Monday. Public Policy Polling's final survey put Brown up 51 to 46 percent, a lead that falls within the margin of error.

A third-party independent candidate Joe Kennedy, who some feared would confuse voters by siphoning votes through the power of his name, is now seen as less of a factor. He captures just 2 percent of support in the InsiderAdvantage poll.

"If this race were to tight up, he might make the difference," said Towery. "But this is a disaster (for Democrats)," he said.

The margin of error for the InsiderAdvantage poll is +/- 3.4 percent. About three percent registered no opinion.
 
You know, if I ever give up my day gig, I could be a political pundit...I mean, just read the thread title and then check the current headlines. David Gergen has nothing on me (and I wouldn't call it "Teddy Kennedy's seat" either)

:lol:
 
The stimulus will be seen as a complete failure, unemployment will be above 10%, Iran will continue to make a mockery out of Obama, Moderate Dems will have run to the hills with re-election in mind, stagnation in the middle east peace process will continue, michelle Obama's arse will be even bigger, and Man Utd will be in the CL Final.

Only the Champions League Final left....hehehehehe
 
Just in case you need to read more.....



Jan. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Democrats face the possibility of losing their most iconic U.S. Senate seat, held for almost 47 years by the late Edward Kennedy, in a Massachusetts election today that could also cost them their 60-vote Senate supermajority needed to help pass a health-care overhaul.

In just more than a week, Democrat Martha Coakley, the state attorney general once considered a sure bet for the Senate, has watched her lead evaporate. Some polls show her trailing state Senator Scott Brown, who was more than 30 points behind last November.

Democrats are mobilized by the prospect of conceding a Senate seat in a state where they control all 10 House seats. President Barack Obama stumped for Coakley in a trip to Boston Sunday. He also cut a new television ad, while his grassroots organizing group says it placed 93,000 calls across the state on Jan. 16 alone.

“In some ways, Republicans have already won,” said Jennifer Duffy, the Senate analyst for the nonpartisan Cook Political Report in Washington. “Nobody ever imagined a special election in Massachusetts for Ted Kennedy’s seat would ever get remotely competitive.”
Research “strongly suggests” that Brown, 50, will defeat Coakley, 56, the Washington-based nonpartisan Rothenberg Political Report said. That outcome or even a narrow Coakley win could discourage House or Senate Democrats in competitive districts and states from running in this November’s elections amid a sagging economy and declining poll numbers for Obama.

Supermajority at Stake

At stake is the presidential party’s 60-vote majority that helps Democrats avoid Republican attempts to kill legislation, including Obama’s signature issue, a health-care bill before Congress that many Democrats also consider a tribute to Kennedy’s decades of work to expand medical coverage.

Still, “the key is what’s the turnout of independents,” who aren’t as likely as Democrats or Republicans to vote, said Jeffrey Berry, a political science professor at Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts. “A big turnout of independents probably favors Brown.”

While Democrats outnumber Republicans 3-to-1 in the state, 51 percent of voters aren’t registered with a party.

Obama warned that much of his agenda in Congress, specifically his health-care overhaul and proposed fee on big banks, hinges on retaining Kennedy’s former seat.

“We’ve begun to deliver on the change you voted for,” Obama told a crowd of about 1,500 people Jan. 17 at Northeastern University in Boston.

Race Tightening

Polls show the race tightening in the closing days of the campaign. One poll by Boston’s Suffolk University gave Brown a 4-percentage-point lead. Another poll by Survey USA, conducted Jan. 15-17, gave Brown a 7-point advantage. An InsiderAdvantage poll conducted Jan. 17 for Politico showed Brown leading by 9 percentage points.

The polls all have a margin of error of less than 5 percentage points.

Coakley had led by 31 points in a Suffolk poll last November.

Brown has cast himself as a populist and political outsider in a state with abuse-of-power scandals involving Democratic lawmakers including a former speaker of the House, Salvatore DiMasi, who was indicted on federal corruption charges.

The last Republican senator from Massachusetts was Edward Brooke, who served two terms before being defeated in 1978.

While Coakley campaigned with Obama and former President Bill Clinton, Brown crisscrossed the state in a pickup truck and recruited celebrities with blue-collar appeal. Joining him yesterday were Red Sox pitching legend Curt Schilling and John Ratzenberger, an actor who played the mail carrier on the “Cheers” television comedy.

‘Political Machine’

“I’m running in the name of every independent-thinking voter to take on the political machine and their candidate,” Brown says in a recent Web advertisement.

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said Jan. 17 that the Massachusetts race shows the extent of popular opposition to Obama’s health-care proposal.

Some analysts say local issues such as taxes loom larger.

“People are just really angry” about the economy, tax increases and corruption, said Fred Bayles, director of Boston University’s Statehouse Program. “Coakley should have been aware of what the situation was.”

Democrats took aim at Brown’s opposition to Obama’s plan to tax the largest financial firms, including Charlotte, North Carolina-based Bank of America Corp., to recoup losses from companies that got federal aid from the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program.

Focus on Banks

“Bankers don’t need another vote in the United States Senate -- they’ve got plenty,” Obama said in Boston, signaling a broader political strategy to tie Republicans in this year’s races to Wall Street greed.

Brown has said banks will pass on the cost of Obama’s proposed tax to consumers in the form of higher fees.

Outside groups poured money into the race. The Tea Party Express, which opposes Obama’s health-care plan, said it has spent more than $300,000 supporting Brown. The National Rifle Association put almost $20,000 behind Brown.

Service Employees International Union groups reported on Jan. 13 spending almost $740,000 to back Coakley.

“The whole nation’s watching what’s happening in Massachusetts,” Coakley told supporters in Boston on Jan. 15.

The Massachusetts winner will replace Paul Kirk, a former Democratic National Committee chairman appointed to the Senate after Kennedy died last August at age 77. Kirk didn’t run to serve the remaining three years of Kennedy’s term.
 
Caokley is toast and deservedly so.

will be interesting to see how Health care pases.

Well, if Brown wins, I think healthcare is dead in its current guise. Some might argue that Dems will force it through, but this is politically very high stakes and risky. The reason I think it will be DOA is I expect to see some democratic house and senate defections away from this bill...they will recognize massachusetts as a warning sign and realize that if its unpopular in the most democratic of states, how is it perceived elsewhere ?

They may blame lack of transparency and deal making as the culprit, but the root cause will be political reality.

If Coakley wins, healthcare will go through, but I suspect the toll of healthcare reform on this presidency will be very heavy...don't expect much the rest of the way.

My beer is chilled, and the remote batteries replaced....time to sit back and watch the results come in. Anything less than a Coakley emphatic win is a victory for republicans and common sense.
 
Mixed signals on whats happening so far. They are claiming massive turnout which is generally good for the Dems, although most of the polls show that Brown surged into a lead over the final 48 hours. It will be interesting to see if Obama's visit made a difference in the final results.
 
RufRT, I haven't read much of this thread, and I don't know your views, but don't you want the health care bill to be passed?

I want SENSIBLE healthcare reform passed, one that includes tort reform/no pre-existing conditions exclusions/no special favours for unions/legitimate medical care reforms that address waste and excessive testing. I want government to have NO role in healthcare delivery.

I WANT a healthcare reform package passed that is bipartisan, sensible, and looks at all aspects of the problem...not just those that are politically easy pickings for those in power.
 
I want SENSIBLE healthcare reform passed, one that includes tort reform/no pre-existing conditions exclusions/no special favours for unions/legitimate medical care reforms that address waste and excessive testing. I want government to have NO role in healthcare delivery.

I WANT a healthcare reform package passed that is bipartisan, sensible, and looks at all aspects of the problem...not just those that are politically easy pickings for those in power.

There's no such thing as Bipartisan health care reform. Each party have a completely different vision of what health care reform should be, thus the only way its going to get done is if one party has the White House, Congress, and a Supermajority in the Senate, such as now.
 
There's no such thing as Bipartisan health care reform. Each party have a completely different vision of what health care reform should be, thus the only way its going to get done is if one party has the White House, Congress, and a Supermajority in the Senate, such as now.

Complete poppycock. If dems had included tort reform alone in this bill, they would have had 10 more republican senators on board.
 
Complete poppycock. If dems had included tort reform alone in this bill, they would have had 10 more republican senators on board.

No they wouldn't have because the Republicans are rejecting the bill over more issues than a lack of tort reform.
 
No they wouldn't have because the Republicans are rejecting the bill over more issues than a lack of tort reform.


Dems made it easy for republicans to vote "No" en mass. When tort reform was brought up, several Republicans described this as a sensible leg on the table of healthcare reform.

However, the trial lawyer lobby won out and Obama nixed anything meaningful (other than window dressing "tort reform experiments" in select states that no one ever heard from)

They would have had Olympia Snowe right off the bat, as well as 5 or 6 other moderate republicans. Instead, the snobbish power of the majority took over, and the electorate in Massachusetts is responding tonite.
 
MA Senate Seat:

Polls closed at 8:00pm est,

5% of precincts reporting: Scott Brown 52%, Martha Coakley 47% (5,000 vote differential of about 105,000 counted).
 
13% reporting: Brown 53.3% (170,000), Coaxley 45.8% (145,000)

Looking ominous for the democrats.
 
30% reporting: Brown 52.4% (337,000), Coaxley 46.7% (300,000)

At the rate this is going they cannot be that far from declaring.
 
Seems probable it goes to Brown. So fire up the repub talking points now. I hope the next few years of politics aren't going to be this swinging pendulum.
 
65% of precincts in ...BROWN 53% COAKLEY 46%

what a change in the traditional democratic stronghold of Mass.

:cool:
 
Seems probable it goes to Brown. So fire up the repub talking points now. I hope the next few years of politics aren't going to be this swinging pendulum.



Nah, it will swing decidedly right and stay there. America has had enough of the socialist spending experiment and will stay true to the values that made it strong in the first place...individual freedoms, reward for hard work, less government.

If the voters in Massachusetts can recognize that the country is heading in the wrong direction, can you imagine the sentiment in the rest of the country ? It boggles the mind.

Less than one year after taking office....what a difference a year makes.

The line of the night from a Mass. voter...."I voted for change, but this is not the change I wanted"
 
COAKLEY CONCEDES....BROWN WINS FOR REPUBLICANS IN MASS.


Waaaaaahoooooooooooooooooo !

Get the feck in !
 
As I said on November 4th 2009,

How's your hope and change coming along ? US Voters rebuke Obamamania
 
Now Ruf, you now you sound just like all the dems in here about a year ago. They were spouting all sorts of crap. I've already seen one repub on tv and he looked like a kid in a candy store. If anything this should send a message to both major parties to stop acting like idiots. People are quickly getting tired of partisan politics.
 
Now Ruf, you now you sound just like all the dems in here about a year ago. They were spouting all sorts of crap. I've already seen one repub on tv and he looked like a kid in a candy store. If anything this should send a message to both major parties to stop acting like idiots. People are quickly getting tired of partisan politics.

can I at least enjoy it tonight ?

:cool:
 
The Democrats losing was well deserved. Dems have no business losing there if they tried. It's kinda like Elizabeth Dole losing to Kay Hagan in North Carolina. If you don't pay attention and make an effort to win, you don't deserve it. It takes some kind of talent to lose as a Dem in Massachusetts...
 
Now Ruf, you now you sound just like all the dems in here about a year ago. They were spouting all sorts of crap. I've already seen one repub on tv and he looked like a kid in a candy store. If anything this should send a message to both major parties to stop acting like idiots. People are quickly getting tired of partisan politics.

That message is not going to get through this century
 
The stimulus will be seen as a complete failure, unemployment will be above 10%, Iran will continue to make a mockery out of Obama, Moderate Dems will have run to the hills with re-election in mind, stagnation in the middle east peace process will continue, michelle Obama's arse will be even bigger, and Man Utd will be in the CL Final.

because the CL final is held in July??

Riiiiight...

You can't even read a calendar much less predict the future.
 
Question to Americans: How possible is it for a third party to emerge in US politics in the coming couple of decades or so?
 
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