Can anyone share a lovely compilation of Him doing his thing, if we won't be signing De Jong we might as well camp here
Ruben Neves | Signed for Al Hilal (SA)
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I think we need to accept it is now highly likely de Jong will not be joining. By all accounts, staying at Barcelona or then joining Chelsea are the player preference. I do wonder could both Neves and Tielemans be secured for the price the club agreed for de Jong. Neither are as good but the harsh reality is that both would be an upgrade on current options and we are fast approaching panic stations.
I get that but I think we have to realise there isn't a magic wand we can shake at our midfield composition and think all is right in the world in one signing. Even if we buy De Jong, there are question marks over how some of our partnerships can defend.
Neves is pretty decent positionally, can get his foot in, and will help building from deep. He will give us some qualities that are not currently present. If the goal is to sign one bloke who can do everything and plug every gap we will be looking a long time, midfielders aren't like that anymore. As with everything else, it is going to be a process of getting the right couple of players in over the next windows.
At the start of the window, I do think most of us would have easily considered Neves + Tielemans to be an upgrade on Fred + Mctominay. Maddison is also available for around 60m, so there's another potential to throw into the mix, although he is perhaps not what we need for the positions we're looking for. It's only in the context of de Jong and our Summer-long pursuit of him that it looks like a downgrade, when in reality, you can only ever upgrade on what you have, not what you think you can have.
Regardless of de Jong coming, I still think we should be going for Neves.
I think that Neves gets some unwarranted criticism on here, he is certainly much better than a lot of Caf members reckon.
Trouble is that now, Wolves will know that we are approaching panic mode and that £60m fee will now creep up to a stubborn £80m
The realistic concern is that we are wandering into a new season with just two senior Central Midfielders, neither of which is good enough, both played out of position, without any back up, and this coming off the back of our worst ever PL season.
Neves would be a huge upgrade of our midfield options, but he plays different role to both Fred and McTominay. They will not get into each other way.
If we get Ruben he will be paired with Fred / van de Beek / McTominay.
FDJ is not coming, he deems Europa league football beneath him, like most Barcelona players which is why they got humiliated last season in the competition, he’s not what we want let him go to Chelsea and let’s try and salvage the window with the following ; SMS (Lazio), 50M Sangare(PSV)30M, L Baily (Villa) 30M , Sesco 30M total £130M which was what we were going to pay for FDJ and Antony
Gives us back up players for forward positions and talent in midfield.
How do I know FFJ not coming, simple the bookies he’s gone from 10/1 on to come to 5/2 against with Chelsea now 2/1 on so they know something, let’s move on and conversation From the Board to Mr ETH we’ve have all looked like idiots chasing a pipe dream, we are trying to get you these players in the last 3/4 weeks so let’s make them work. John Murtourgh looks like a dead man walking before the season started after the FDJ fiasco and we should withdraw our offer so Chelsea can pay €20m less
This was a concern a month ago, now it's a sure thing. It's unlikely deal for Neves would be completed fast, because Wolves will be negotiating hard.I think that Neves gets some unwarranted criticism on here, he is certainly much better than a lot of Caf members reckon.
Trouble is that now, Wolves will know that we are approaching panic mode and that £60m fee will now creep up to a stubborn £80m
The realistic concern is that we are wandering into a new season with just two senior Central Midfielders, neither of which is good enough, both played out of position, without any back up, and this coming off the back of our worst ever PL season.
Unless we've been already working on this in the background, this will drag I reckon. It doesn't feel like United are pushing for fast resolution anyway.
James Garner and Zidane IQbal would like to have a word with you ?I think that Neves gets some unwarranted criticism on here, he is certainly much better than a lot of Caf members reckon.
Trouble is that now, Wolves will know that we are approaching panic mode and that £60m fee will now creep up to a stubborn £80m
The realistic concern is that we are wandering into a new season with just two senior Central Midfielders, neither of which is good enough, both played out of position, without any back up, and this coming off the back of our worst ever PL season.
Why is it DeJong or this guy? If I go shopping for a new car I don't go to the Porsche dealership, take a few test rides, post some pics of me in the drivers seat on facebook, then turnaround and head to the Kia dealership and pick up a Rio.
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I think that Neves gets some unwarranted criticism on here, he is certainly much better than a lot of Caf members reckon.
Trouble is that now, Wolves will know that we are approaching panic mode and that £60m fee will now creep up to a stubborn £80m
The realistic concern is that we are wandering into a new season with just two senior Central Midfielders, neither of which is good enough, both played out of position, without any back up, and this coming off the back of our worst ever PL season.
I do think he gets a raw deal from many fans because he plays for Wolves, so they look at how Wolves play as a team and base his game off that.
Truthfully, we were always going to be paying more, because Wolves are in no rush to sell and I think Neves still has two years left on his deal. Wolves want to keep him, so they're never going to let him go cheap. It's not in their interest to, and they also have to go and get a replacement this late into the window, which is a huge inconvenience to them. They're going to make it as difficult as possible...and from their point of view, rightfully so. He's a valuable player to them, both financially and for how they play. I can appreciate that.
At this stage, I do think it's unlikely he'll come to United. If we manage to still pull it off, then amazing, but the deal has become more complicated now that Chelsea are also apparently looking at him seriously.
Think we'll be lucky to spend only £130m on those players you've mentioned. What it does show though is that there are alternatives out there and it isn't the absolute end of the world if FdJ isn't the one who comes to the club. Fred+McTominay is hugely upgradable and it's too big an area to just sit back and do nothing with. ETH is a smart man and I'm sure something will happen in this area.
We really should be signing him AND FDJ.
It shouldn't be either or.
feck the glazers.
It shouldn't be either or.
feck the glazers.
Yeah get Neves in January or next summer
Croady it only makes sense that we need to replace matic in the squad no?
Neves would be an adequate replacement/upgrade.
FDJ replaces pogba.
Eriksen replaced lingard.
Sadly, our owners are not willing to go the extra mile.
Yeah they are yankee leeches
Erikson will actually play games, so he isn't replacing a player that hardly played is he?
This is what should've been done in perfect scenario. It's a lot of money but we've neglected midfield area long enough.
He isn't good enough, not for the money he'd cost anyway
Our scouting has been an absolute shambles considering EtH rejected pretty much all the recommendations but we need to find a better balance for next transfer window so we have multiple fall-back options. Our infatuation with FdJ will be firmly laid at the door of EtH, and board will wash their hands and pin the blame on manager if we do end up having another poor campaign
Our scouting has been an absolute shambles considering EtH rejected pretty much all the recommendations but we need to find a better balance for next transfer window so we have multiple fall-back options. Our infatuation with FdJ will be firmly laid at the door of EtH, and board will wash their hands and pin the blame on manager if we do end up having another poor campaign
This thread is picking up traction. Only 1000 pages to go
Not sure about him at 100 million, better maybe create a dm/cm inside garner/savage/iqbal
Savage can become soon a monster of player
Savage can become soon a monster of player
He's better than Fred in the role that we normally play Fred in. If we then pushed Fred into the more box-to-box role that he should play, I reckon they'd be a similar level.
Doesn’t excel at anything? His ball recovery is brilliant and quite important in this system.
Fred shouldn’t be the deepest midfielder though. Neves’ technical ability and positioning is very good.
Who’s linked him with us? Unless it’s Orny - I’m not paying attention.
He is a bit overpriced at 60-70m but Neves is a really good player - great passing range and decision making with the ball, great in terms of positioning, anticipation, and football intelligence in general, extremely durable. Yes, he is somewhat limited athletically but he would be a huge upgrade on McTominay. And he would work well in a double pivot with Fred for the same reasons that Kante and Jorginho (previously, Kante and Matic) has been a very good pairing.
IMO, he would be the best DM United has had since Carrick. That isn't saying much given the players who have come in during that time but its wild to me that people turn up their noses at him.
IMO, he would be the best DM United has had since Carrick. That isn't saying much given the players who have come in during that time but its wild to me that people turn up their noses at him.
Pretty sure Wolves put him up on the market a few summers ago for half of that, and no one bit. You guys went for Partey, a much more limited player. Neves is a decent player but his ceiling is pretty clear, and it says challenge for top 4 written all over it.
Well, you need to build a team that can consistently get back into the top four as your first objective at this point. Maybe in 2-3 years time Neves becomes more of a rotational player that can do a job very well while you eventually groom a more athletic DM. Top level teams have players like him - really good reliable professionals, very high floor, but without a world class ceiling. Fergie certainly knew that. I think he would have loved Neves.
He wouldn't be a bad signing for 40-45m which is a similar price to what City paid for Phillips, more than would be silly and not worth it.
The market is far different from what it used to be. Everyone in the PL has money now. There’s not a bargain to be had across the league. For the price, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze for Neves.
Melissa Reddy, Sky reporter and Liverpool fan.
I agree he would be overpriced if the reported fees are true. I just think he is a much better player than many seem to be giving him credit for.
I think the sentiment a lot of us have isn’t so much that we totally think guys like Neves and Tielemans are beneath us or anything (especially when Scott McTominay plays 40+ a season) — it’s more just the implication we’re settling on a choice further down the line.
Pining for Frenkie de Jong all summer can and might very well have huge negative consequences, but the possibility of him in the side potentially transforms this team drastically. A rushed Ruben Neves transfer on the other hand just replaces a weak player with a decent-ish one, so it’s naturally subdued in anticipation.
That is my view as well. Keep in mind we've ended up with worse players than Neves as our starting midfielders due to no other options.
Also, I'm surprised nobody mentioned now that we have one of the best managers of young generations, shouldn't we expect most players (including for example Neves) to improve?
For me the issue is the difference in how we and wolves play. Wolves sit back and hit teams with through passes and on the counter. Neves can sit back and never wander beyond the halfway line. At united we can’t do that, neves will be expected to get up to the edge of the middle third and beyond. We don’t have anyone to cover him and as soon as a turnover happens opposition teams will race through us. Any mid/lower pl will sit deep, neves has to step in, and they will just play past him.
against top 4 teams they will just play around him, with quick passing.
looks good at wolves because he can sit deep an do that exact thing to teams pushing onto them, picks the ball up deep, use his technique to create space then delivers through balls and long passes to expose teams who have pushed up.
watch any of his highlight videos to see how limited his mobility and pace is. Has no acceleration, no change in pace and no ability to track back if he gets caught high, that’s why his heatmaps show him mostly playing in his own half.
if we bring him in without changing anything we will wonder why he is flop, incapable of producing what he did for wolves.
against top 4 teams they will just play around him, with quick passing.
looks good at wolves because he can sit deep an do that exact thing to teams pushing onto them, picks the ball up deep, use his technique to create space then delivers through balls and long passes to expose teams who have pushed up.
watch any of his highlight videos to see how limited his mobility and pace is. Has no acceleration, no change in pace and no ability to track back if he gets caught high, that’s why his heatmaps show him mostly playing in his own half.
if we bring him in without changing anything we will wonder why he is flop, incapable of producing what he did for wolves.
Why would he be required to push so high though? You can have attacking fullbacks and just have CBs and Neves staying back, why is that an issue?
Also, I think we bought Martinez to have someone fast in CB position? Fred isn't slow as well, his problem is lack of strength (therefore can't play DM role as he gets bullied).
This has happened to us already with McTominay and Fred running around like headless chickens. If anything, I would be more confident going against those teams with somebody in the middle who knows how to position himself without the ball.
What do you mean by the bolded part? We are just at the beginning of the road and I hope every single part of the game will be changed. Starting from midfield setup.
Neves staying back is all we need from him IMO.
Thanks.
I was surprised to find out he's only 25. Feels like he's been at Wolves for a decade.
I really do feel you're over-stating his lack of mobility. Sure he's not exactly nimble, but I'd say he's comfortably more mobile than Matic for example.
You need to watch his highlights, instead of say accelerating over 5 yards he is really slow, almost looking like he decelerates. Very obvious when you watch it.
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