Ruben Neves | Signed for Al Hilal (SA)

[Hammondo]

Neves would be an alternative to De Jong surely? We'd still need a DM regardless of whether we sign either De Jong or Neves.

Agreed, that's the only way it makes sense.

 

[devilish]

Neves would be an alternative to De Jong surely? We'd still need a DM regardless of whether we sign either De Jong or Neves.

That's how I see it especially since we've got Bruno and Ronaldo in front of them who aren't exactly pressing giants

 

[Tavern in the town]

He's nothing like Fabregas.

He is. He doesn’t have the final ball obviously but he’s brilliant at launching counter attacks from deep with long passes, just like Cesc used to do at Chelsea.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Can he play in a DM role alongside Frankie De Jong though?

Yep that would be absolutely perfect for me. Two players both comfortable on the ball and good under pressure. Those two would be fantastic together.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Yep that would be absolutely perfect for me. Two players both comfortable on the ball and good under pressure. Those two would be fantastic together.

What about getting around the pitch and winning the ball back? Would they struggle as a duo?

 

[FrankDrebin]

De Jong and Neves doesn't look like a natural fit unless you have another player in there.

 

[haru krentz]

Funny thing is that Neves’ passing accuracy is pretty damn poor for a holding midfielder. He averages a lower accurate passing % than both Fred and McTominay. Long ball merchant. We need a short game pass king — Frenkie / Fabian type beat

How many of those are safe backward passes??

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I haven’t watched much of Neves, would a double-pivot or DM-CM duo of Neves-Dejong do the trick for now?

In my opinion yes. People underrate the defensive abilities of De Jong who is disciplined and mobile. Neves is a steady Carrick like player who reads the game well and is good on the ball. I think Ten Hag could craft them into an incredible pairing and a massive upgrade on what we have. I think there’s too much obsession with a pure DM when that’s not really what the top sides (especially possession sides) use. Rodri at City is an example of a player very similar to Neves.

 

[diarm]

I would say we're looking at Neves as an alternative if De Jong doesn't happen. Then looking at players like Koné, Laimer or (hopefully not) Kante for the other midfield position.

 

[devilish]

Yep that would be absolutely perfect for me. Two players both comfortable on the ball and good under pressure. Those two would be fantastic together.

A Neves-De Jong could work if we had a team of hard work junkies. For example United played with Carrick-Scholes in CM and was successful because we had Park/Valencia on a flank with Tevez-Rooney upfront. We don't have that. We have a weak defence, our flank men tend to walk, Bruno thinks he's a striker and Ronaldo is Ronaldo.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

What about getting around the pitch and winning the ball back? Would they struggle as a duo?

Personally I don’t think so. It’s become common to pretend De Jong doesn’t have mobility or a decent engine and it’s not really fair. He knows how to graft for his team and is pretty sound defensively. Neves is very much in the mould of a Carrick or Rodri. Not rapid by any means but good steady players who cover the right areas well and read the game well. It a pairing that is designed to dominate with the ball more than outside of it which is very much like Pep and I think Ten Hag will want similar.

 

[diarm]

In my opinion yes. People underrate the defensive abilities of De Jong who is disciplined and mobile. Neves is a steady Carrick like player who reads the game well and is good on the ball. I think Ten Hag could craft them into an incredible pairing and a massive upgrade on what we have. I think there’s too much obsession with a pure DM when that’s not really what the top sides (especially possession sides) use. Rodri at City is an example of a player very similar to Neves.

I disagree with your opinion on Neves. I think he's a midfielder who wants to get forward a lot more than Carrick did.

Ten Hag has said himself that you waste De Jong unless you let him get forward, so then we'd be left with two lads who don't want to be the disciplined, sitting deep midfielder we need.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

A Neves-De Jong could work if we had a team of hard work junkies. For example United played with Carrick-Scholes in CM and was successful because we had Park/Valencia on a flank with Tevez-Rooney upfront. We don't have that. We have a weak defence, our flank men tend to walk, Bruno thinks he's a striker and Ronaldo is Ronaldo.

Or it would work if we were all very technically sound and dominated/controlled the game through possession. Both players are capable of facilitating that. For what it’s worth I think Scholes and Carrick could play as a two for almost any team because they both knew completely how to change the pace of the game to suit themselves.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I disagree with your opinion on Neves. I think he's a midfielder who wants to get forward a lot more than Carrick did.

Ten Hag has said himself that you waste De Jong unless you let him get forward, so then we'd be left with two lads who don't want to be the disciplined, sitting deep midfielder we need.

Neves plays for a smaller team much like when Carrick signed for Utd from Spurs. At Spurs Carrick was much more adventurous and box to box. I see many of the same qualities in Neves and his defensive stats are largely quite strong. I see him fulfilling that role perfectly in a Ten Hag side.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Personally I don’t think so. It’s become common to pretend De Jong doesn’t have mobility or a decent engine and it’s not really fair. He knows how to graft for his team and is pretty sound defensively. Neves is very much in the mould of a Carrick or Rodri. Not rapid by any means but good steady players who cover the right areas well and read the game well. It a pairing that is designed to dominate with the ball more than outside of it which is very much like Pep and I think Ten Hag will want similar.

Thanks for the detailed reply, I agree that modern football doesn't really require 'runners' as such when you want to dominate the ball. I would be extremely happy with signing these two then, with Bruno just in front it might be an excellent midfield trio.

 

[devilish]

Or it would work if we were all very technically sound and dominated/controlled the game through possession. Both players are capable of facilitating that. For what it’s worth I think Scholes and Carrick could play as a two for almost any team because they both knew completely how to change the pace of the game to suit themselves.

SAF started to abandon the DM role when Scholes came into scene. He could have moved for a Keane who was at the time a B2B and Butt but he opted for the ginger prince himself. Later on he would say that he never liked the pure DM player as it felt like stripping the team of a player creative wise. So in some ways I agree with you

However to play a De Jong-Neves system one has to have two things. First of all the collective needs to do the work. That means a solid defence, FBs that work like men possessed, at least a winger whose hard working and a forward line that would have to play like men possessed. We don't have that. Rashford walks on the pitch, Bruno becomes redundant the further down the pitch he goes and Ronaldo is Ronaldo.

 

[sullydnl]

On Neves' changed role and improved form this season:

He is imposing himself on games more regularly now.

A subtle change to Wolves' build-up play under Lage has helped facilitate that. Previously, Neves would often drop very deep, assuming that quarterback role at times, collecting the ball off the defence where there was more room for him to play.

He has been encouraged to do it less. Conor Coady can distribute the ball from deep, while Max Kilman is an impressive ball-carrier. Romain Saiss picks out clever forward passes. Willy Boly looked comfortable on his return. "That kind of thing is the little detail that we put in our games," says Lage.

"It is not better or worse than the previous coaches but I think we give more space for the centre-backs like Saiss and Max to build up." The result is that Neves is frequently picking up the ball in slightly more advanced areas of the pitch than he was doing before.

"We do not need the midfielder here, go away. Go to those different spaces, more in front. Give freedom for guys like Coady, Saiss and Max to find you. Organise the game over there. But here, it is the defenders' space. Don't come to the ball, the ball will come to you.

"After that, you can organise the game in the final third."

Neves still showcases his full passing range. He has played by far the most successful long passes of any midfielder in the Premier League this season. He is one of only two players to bring up a century - Man City's Rodri is the other - and Neves had made 162 of them.

But it is clear that he is operating in a different zone, inside the opposition's half Those sweeping diagonal passes are still part of his game but he is joining the attacks much more.

...

Only two midfielders have attempted more through balls than Neves this season. But just because the team's setup allows him to have a greater impact further forwards does not mean that the defensive side of his game is lacking. The fact he has picked up nine bookings hints at that....Only two players have won possession in the middle of the pitch more than Neves. There have been 62 tackles and 33 interceptions so far.

Lage wants to see him continue to develop into this complete midfielder. "I think the challenge for Ruben is that," says Lage.

"You can see the physicality that a No 6 has. I think Ruben needs to do both things. I used to say that every No 6 has that attitude of, 'I'm here.' That is why some people say he is a defensive midfielder. For me, he is a central midfielder.

"He needs to defend and he needs to attack. Ruben knows how to attack. The challenge for him if he wants to improve as he did before, he needs to put the defensive game at the same level of his offensive game."

Neves is working hard to do that. He has covered more ground than any Wolves player in four of their last five matches, making more tackles and more interceptions than his team-mates in that period too. With his ability, that makes him a very dangerous player.

"If he does what the other players do in the defensive game, he has the extra quality to do the other parts when you have the ball and to organise the game," adds Lage.

"That is the challenge for him to make the next step."

 

[diarm]

Neves plays for a smaller team much like when Carrick signed for Utd from Spurs. At Spurs Carrick was much more adventurous and box to box. I see many of the same qualities in Neves and his defensive stats are largely quite strong. I see him fulfilling that role perfectly in a Ten Hag side.

It would be interesting to see. I still have my doubts but I see the points you are making.

 

[DevilRed]

On Neves' changed role and improved form this season:

He's looked good to me everytime I've watched wolves (mostly against us).

His fitness levels are impressive and he can play the full 90 without looking like he wants to die.

I suppose my standards are just that low after watching our plodders for so many years now.

But most importantly, he can play a long ball over the top or to the wings. Something none of our CMs can do consistently.

We need midfielders who can pass and receive passes under pressure.

 

[Blood Mage]

I'll say it again. Why aren't we after Fabian Ruiz? In fact why is nobody after him?

Napoli's president drives a hard bargain and would probably demand as much for him as West Ham would for Rice.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Sounds like our De Jong back up. Nowhere near as good though

 

[Blood Mage]

Sounds like our De Jong back up. Nowhere near as good though

They play different roles. Neves is a deep-lying playmaker and Frenkie is a roaming playmaker.

 

[DWelbz19]

How many of those are safe backward passes??

There’s a massive difference between “safe backward passes” and circulating the ball around midfield to retain possession and control of a match. Heroball passes aren’t missing from our midfield, the former is.

 

[dinostar77]

If ETH and his staff want him, then im all for it. On the surface it may seem a underwhelming potential signing to some, but so did henderson, wijnaldum and co when Klopp signed them for liverpool. Sure liverpool were just as dubious about those players as people on here are about Neves.

The system and football philosophy a player finds themselves in, can drastically change how they play and perform week in, week out.

So good enough for ETH, then good enough for me.

 

[MadDogg]

Funny thing is that Neves’ passing accuracy is pretty damn poor for a holding midfielder. He averages a lower accurate passing % than both Fred and McTominay. Long ball merchant. We need a short game pass king — Frenkie / Fabian type beat

One thing to note about that though is that Moutinho also plays a hell of a lot of long balls. Not as many as Neves, but enough to definitely be notable (they were in the 98th and 87th percentile respectively this season). So it does appear likely to be a deliberate tactic from their team. If he were put in a team with more of a focus on short passing then he might have no problem fitting into that himself (and having the ability to play those long balls is obviously a good thing).

Of course, his short-passing completion rate is quite low, but that might again be related to how the team is set up to focus more on long balls spreading the play rather than giving each other easy short passes. Moutinho's short-passing completion isn't much better.

I haven't watched Neves enough to say what I've posted above actually is the case. Just putting it out there that the style of football the team plays might have a big impact on those stats.

 

[bosnian_red]

Meh. Not really a fan of his. Better than nothing. 45m is about 15m overpriced probably, if not a little more. Don't think he's better than Fred.

 

[tjb]

They play different roles. Neves is a deep-lying playmaker and Frenkie is a roaming playmaker.

At Barca. At Ajax he was a deep lying playmaker.

 

[didz]

Napoli's president drives a hard bargain and would probably demand as much for him as West Ham would for Rice.

His contract expires next summer, so I highly doubt they'd be after such a fee.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Meh. Not really a fan of his. Better than nothing. 45m is about 15m overpriced probably, if not a little more. Don't think he's better than Fred.

He might not be better than Fred (who is underrated) but he’s a very different profile of player and one we severely lack. Hed be excellent alongside a Fred and I really think he could be excellent alongside a De Jong too. He’s versatile enough in his profile to fulfil several roles but more than anything im constantly impressed with his positioning. It’s still the single most important midfield attribute in my book and it’s where he excels. It’s also easy to forget that he was such a young captain before he moved to Wolves so he clearly has some leadership qualities too that Utd badly miss. I think he’d be an instant fan favourite if he signed.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Mainoldo]

He best have a word with Frenkie then. No Frenkie your coming here boy.

 

[Bebestation]

If Barca is selling us De Jong for money - surely they can’t go and buy Neves for that money?

 

[croadyman]

I think it'll be one or the other.

Could live with one of them and a Kante type

 

[Brophs]

If Barca is selling us De Jong for money - surely they can’t go and buy Neves for that money?

It can’t be true, but it seems like it’s one of those ‘never interrupt your opponent when he’s making a a mistake’ type of things. De Jong is in a different league to Neves.

 

[Mainoldo]

It can’t be true, but it seems like it’s one of those ‘never interrupt your opponent when he’s making a a mistake’ type of things. De Jong is in a different league to Neves.

I think it more about rebuilding than like for like. The money they use to replace DeJong also gets then Lewendoski and probably a few others. Which to them would make sense.

He’s also cheaper on wages.

 

[avgp_1]

I'll say it again. Why aren't we after Fabian Ruiz? In fact why is nobody after him?

I have not watched a lot of him but whenever I have he really looks like he plays at quite a slow tempo, too many touches. Also doesnt look like he has the acceleration for playing at the base of Midfield. For a playmaker in England is that really useful?

 

[yamo123x]

Wolves fans say he is brilliant, they say he is on a different level to any other player they have.
Always played well against us.... id go for him if we can get him for 40mill.

 

[Freak]

Wolves fans say he is brilliant, they say he is on a different level to any other player they have.
Always played well against us.... id go for him if we can get him for 40mill.

But Redcafe says he’s shit and slow and all that.

 

[croadyman]

Wolves fans say he is brilliant, they say he is on a different level to any other player they have.
Always played well against us.... id go for him if we can get him for 40mill.

Yeah that sort of fee is fair in my opinion

 

[bond19821982]

It's either him or FDJ I guess. Definitely we can't play them together.