Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

gaffs said:
If that is the case, i take it back.
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It has been pointed out to me Ashworth was not officially in the job then anyway. However it was rumoured he didn't want Amorim, which might be what cost him his job in the end. He wanted someone who could work with the current squad.
 
U-N-I-T-E-D said:
By hiring a coach that plays a system that not many top coaches play and a system that we'll no doubt have to buy specific players for?

I like Amorim and really hope he does well but it was still a massive risk to bring him in and is apparently the reason Liverpool didn't. It doesn't match a philosophy of interchangeable managers at all.
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The whole point though is, at least I thought that is what was unanimously agreed, was that Ineos aren't wedded to 343, they just really like Amorim. I had not anticipated he would be more stubborn than basically any manager that has come before him but, in a way, I prefer it. You can quickly see if he is good enough/able to coach his formation to a high enough level.
 
Rozay said:
‘Right now’ being the last 2 games since players were injured/suspended I presume - not last 3 months?
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3 weeks since Amad got injured, just after we loaned out Antony and Rashford without even a loan replacement, Mainoo already missed 7 games I think, Martinez done ACL a month ago. Not even mentioning Mount. What changed in the last 2 games?
 
Danny said:
Rooney commented yesterday about if he was a player now would he want to join United the way they are, and players won't unless we overpay them and give them long contracts which is part of the issue now. It won't be easy to just get who we need
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I agree that certain players will have their doubts. However, we signed a top young talent in Yoro last summer. We may sign a top young talent in Quenda this summer. We won't overpay for players in terms of transfer fees or wages. I'm very confident about that. We can build a competitive side without pursuing superstars. A sprinkling of superstar quality may be the final touch, but for now, we can become a good side simply by signing players who fit the correct profiles of what Amorim's system requires.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
It's early but that's the whole idea.

I don't know if we are unadaptable - it's seems highly unlikely we happen to have such a large group of players, many who play/have played other systems, but something is being lost between the training sessions and the pitch.

I think this formation just demands attacking WBs and he won't risk wingers in those roles, other than Amad on occasion and he was generally good there. There has to be some risk from him - you can't be playing what is essentially a flat back 5 and think we're going to play good football or not struggle to score. I guess a hypothetical question but do you think there'd be more patience from fans if he was playing Garnacho/Amad as high WBs and then Mainoo/Erikson or whoever in the 10s? I'm not sure playing FBs as WBs makes a huge difference defensively from what we've seen but having more attack minded players on the pitch will surely have given us more attacking momentum?
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Who are the wingers he could have used as wingbacks against Fulham?

That’s the crazy thing in all of this. People are losing their shit on a game by game basis while ignoring the bananas level of adversity in terms of injuries, red cards, whatever that Amorim is facing in trying to pick a decent team. When he had a more complete squad to pick from he did often use attacking players as wingbacks. Especially off the bench. That tactic worked very well for us in Europe. But none of those players are available right now.
 
JPRouve said:
What if other fans aren't sure that he is a good coach? What if he isn't a good coach?
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Then we can make that call when Amorim is given a fighting chance of proving/disproving that. For now, he hasn't been here long enough to be given a fair crack of the whip. Next season will be far more interesting because from there we can begin to make conclusions.
 
acnumber9 said:
You thought we would be earning less points than we did under Ten Hag? I’m going to call bullshit on that one.

A new manager can’t come in and make things worse admins escape criticism because he said it would be hard.
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You 'calling bullshit' on your chosen point isn't an argument.

At no point did I think Amorim would turn us into what you seem to think we are entitled to be within months, and his 'period of pain' statement confirmed what I actually thought.



Remember the geese said:
I agree that certain players will have their doubts.
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Not signing Tel on Bayern's terms was frustrating, but we desperately need to fight 'United Tax' in negotiation.
 
Remember the geese said:
Then we can make that call when Amorim is given a fighting chance of proving/disproving that. For now, he hasn't been here long enough to be given a fair crack of the whip. Next season will be far more interesting because from there we can begin to make conclusions.
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That's your opinion, in most cases 4 months is a pretty good indication of what a manager can do.
 
Danny said:
Rooney commented yesterday about if he was a player now would he want to join United the way they are, and players won't unless we overpay them and give them long contracts which is part of the issue now. It won't be easy to just get who we need
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I can well believe this at this point. I think it will be a tough summer, both in terms of cash flow and in terms of getting the right players in. We’re going to need to do very well in getting players out.

Part of a coach’s job as I see it is to make a team perform consistently better than the sum of its parts. That isn’t happening for Amorim and next season in my view he’s still likely to have to get a tune out of quite a few of these players currently with us.

Whether he can do that, I think will help dictate whether he’s here for the long haul. I’ve said before I’m now dubious he can but I hope he proves me wrong.

One thing is for certain, assuming he is still around for next season and I still expect at this stage he will be, it needs to look a damn sight better than whatever this is at the moment, and quickly.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Who are the wingers he could have used as wingbacks against Fulham?

That’s the crazy thing in all of this. People are losing their shit on a game by game basis while ignoring the bananas level of adversity in terms of injuries, red cards, whatever that Amorim is facing in trying to pick a decent team.
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Well firstly, I would have just gone 433 and accepted it's a cup and the entire point is to win, not to pass on any style/philosophical ideas etc.

Still to answer your question, I would want our better dribblers and players for taking people on at WB, so Garnacho would be RWB given Amad is not here (he is better on the right in my opinion as he will find it harder to shoot all the time) and then we jettisoned Antony who should have been deputy LWB. But with what we have, is Amass fit? I would have played him left (and then it's basically an LB spot anyway given how Daot/Maz play that role). So Amass/Garnacho.
 
Rozay said:
You could argue that he sees Amad as best suited for the 10 role too - but again, these are still his choices. He has decided that having Amad as a 10 is more important than having him at WB, obviously.
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Yes. This is the only conclusion I have drawn from Amorim's wing-back selections. Our attack is poor, so he feels that he needs Amad more advanced. Ideally, he would have better forward options and he could keep Amad at wing-back. Or alternatively, he'd have more suitable wing-back options and he could keep Amad exclusively as a 10. I assume we will be seeing the latter, next season.
 
Did people think our line up was better on paper than Fulham yesterday? I disagree if so.
 
Amira said:
Amorim can’t be held accountable because he inherited a shit team that ETH built and he needs players that can fit his system.

ETH couldn’t be accountable because he inherited a shit team that Ole built and he needs players that fit his system.

That’s how we’ve ended up with this shambles of a squad.

I just hope INEOS wasn’t just talking when they said the club would have its own footballing identity and sign players based on that.
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The managers have to do the best they can with the players here. Ten Hag this season underperformed, and Amorim is underperforming even more.

Forest doesn‘t have a better squad than us.

The team isn‘t terrible, except for lacking a seasoned striker. We should expect better results from Amorim though.
 
Remember the geese said:
Then we can make that call when Amorim is given a fighting chance of proving/disproving that. For now, he hasn't been here long enough to be given a fair crack of the whip. Next season will be far more interesting because from there we can begin to make conclusions.
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This is exactly what you were probably saying about ETH after he won the FA Cup. ''Next season will be grand because he hasn't gotten a proper crack of the whip under the proper structure''. Whilst many on here shared deep concerns that we were walking into another dumpster fire of a season. We can't all just sail along blindly not making conclusions as fans when performances and results are relegation worthy. Maybe you can but it's undeniably fair that there are fans that simply can't. There needs to be a two way street in earning the fans trust as a Manchester United coach/manager.
 
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red_de_pologne said:
3 weeks since Amad got injured, just after we loaned out Antony and Rashford without even a loan replacement, Mainoo already missed 7 games I think, Martinez done ACL a month ago. Not even mentioning Mount. What changed in the last 2 games?
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Since Amad got injured and Dorgu banned. We’ve had plenty of options to play 433 over the last 3 months, it’s only the extent of our most recent squad issues that has left us without options to play it. And that includes taking a decision to loan half of the wingers in our squad out.

We’ve certainly not been in a position where we play this strange formation out of sheer necessity.
 
Shark said:
So why on earth did we hire a system specific coach? especially if we knew the funds weren't there to accommodate him to the max. I'm also sure Ruben is a good coach but that has nothing to do with rather he can succeed at this club right now in our current state.
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Now that is a valid question. I assume it was because the guys who recruited him did their research and were impressed by what Amorim could offer. I'm sure both parties acknowledged that the circumstances and state of the squad wasn't ideal in the short term, but that they would fight through it regardless because they believed in the end goal.
 
Leftback99 said:
Did people think our line up was better on paper than Fulham yesterday? I disagree if so.
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The key is asking this question today, versus Ruud's last game. Right now many seem convinced we're a league 2 team who chanced upon landing in the PL.
 
Remember the geese said:
Yes. This is the only conclusion I have drawn from Amorim's wing-back selections. Our attack is poor, so he feels that he needs Amad more advanced. Ideally, he would have better forward options and he could keep Amad at wing-back. Or alternatively, he'd have more suitable wing-back options and he could keep Amad exclusively as a 10. I assume we will be seeing the latter, next season.
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But he has had actual forwards that he can play in their best roles and have Amad at WB if he wanted too, and he’s made his choice that he’d rather Mazraoui at RWB than Garnacho, Rashford or Antony in attack.

And also, let’s not pretend that Amad’s position as an inside 10 is not and has not always been his natural position. He is no more a WB than Dalot is, and has not been moved from his optimal position in order to play as a 10.
 
Shark said:
This is exactly what you were probably saying about ETH after he won the FA Cup, next season will be grand because he hadn't gotten a proper crack of the whip under the ''proper structure''. Whilst many on here shared deep concerns that we were walking into another dumpster fire of a season. We can't all just sail along blindly not making conclusions as fans when performances and results are relegation worthy. Maybe you can but it's fair that there are fans that can't. There needs to be a two way street in earning the fans trust as a Manchester United coach.
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To be fair, that wasn't a completely crazy shout. Though all I would say to that is that ten Hag was coming off his second full season. Amorim has been here little over three months. The other main difference is that ten Hag didn't really have a vision for how he wanted his team to play. Not a sustainable one that was conducive to success anyway.
 
Remember the geese said:
I agree that certain players will have their doubts. However, we signed a top young talent in Yoro last summer. We may sign a top young talent in Quenda this summer. We won't overpay for players in terms of transfer fees or wages. I'm very confident about that. We can build a competitive side without pursuing superstars. A sprinkling of superstar quality may be the final touch, but for now, we can become a good side simply by signing players who fit the correct profiles of what Man United requires.
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Fixed that for you. We stopped buying players to suit managers.
 
Rozay said:
Since Amad got injured and Dorgu banned. We’ve had plenty of options to play 433 over the last 3 months, it’s only the extent of our most recent squad issues that has left us without options to play it. And that includes taking a decision to loan half of the wingers in our squad out.

We’ve certainly not been in a position where we play this strange formation out of sheer necessity.
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Amad got injured 3 weeks ago, our options were incredibly limited before that anyway.

And of course, we play 3-4-3 because that's what the manager was hired to do, however we don't have the personel to play it. Is it managers fault?

I'm pointing out he doesn't have any manoeuvrability around tactical set up at the moment. It's 3 attackers, two midfielders for the next months.

Can't believe discussing why aren't we playing Ten Hags formation which worked so well.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
The key is asking this question today, versus Ruud's last game. Right now many seem convinced we're a league 2 team who chanced upon landing in the PL.
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People put way to much stock in a couple of wins over Leicester. We had Martinez, Amad and Rashford that day too.
 
Leftback99 said:
People put way to much stock in a couple of wins over Leicester. We had Martinez, Amad and Rashford that day too.
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We drew with Chelsea. We can only play what is in front of us, the fact that Amorim has struggled to beat even Southampton is worrying.
 
red_de_pologne said:
Amad got injured 3 weeks ago, our options were incredibly limited before that anyway.

And of course, we play 3-4-3 because that's what the manager was hired to do, however we don't have the personel to play it. Is it managers fault?

I'm pointing out he doesn't have any manoeuvrability around tactical set up at the moment. It's 3 attackers, two midfielders for the next months.

Can't believe discussing why aren't we playing Ten Hags formation which worked so well.
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Whatever Ten Hag was doing worked a hell of a lot better than this. And it isn’t Ten Hag’s formation, it’s the formation used by the best teams in this league for many a year, and doesn’t fill half of the team with defenders.

Before Amorim came, Garnacho had started the season very brightly. Overnight, his kind was ‘unsuited’ to whatever it is we do, and we began seeing Dalot on the ball in the situations we would usually see him in.
 
Remember the geese said:
I don't believe he will be. I assume we will look to sign Quenda. Dorgu will start on the left. I would also suggest that Quenda aside, Amad and Kamason are more suitable options than Dalot.
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He‘s playing every game. In my opinion, he isn‘t as bad as all that, and the more defensive option.

I‘d like to see more attacking wing backs too.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Who are the wingers he could have used as wingbacks against Fulham?
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He could have just, you know, not used wingbacks.

This stubbornness of sticking to 5 at the back regardless of form, results, injuries and availability is absolutely ridiculous.

Him and his system don’t have anywhere near enough credit in the bank for that.

He could have gone for 4231/433 yesterday with the players available and we’d have looked far more balanced. Just like Ruud did when he came in and we looked far better for it. Instead he’d rather throw a cup competition over backing down. It’s just as stubborn as ETH and the ridiculous system he refused to deviate from, which ultimately cost him his job. If the same happens to Amorim, he can have no complaints.

Why we keep hiring managers that want to reinvent the wheel, rather than use systems and formations that the majority of other managers use to great success is baffling.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Who are the wingers he could have used as wingbacks against Fulham?

That’s the crazy thing in all of this. People are losing their shit on a game by game basis while ignoring the bananas level of adversity in terms of injuries, red cards, whatever that Amorim is facing in trying to pick a decent team. When he had a more complete squad to pick from he did often use attacking players as wingbacks. Especially off the bench. That tactic worked very well for us in Europe. But none of those players are available right now.
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The reason nobody cares about the injuries is because we were just as dogshit when everyone was fit. If we were playing great when everyone was fit and form tailed off due to injuries, vast majority of fans would understand because there was at least tangible evidence. Everyone sees through the BS now after enduring the same crap being trotted out for 12 years. This is not an injuries problem. This is a playing style problem.
 
Malone_Post said:
He could have just, you know, not used wingbacks.

This stubbornness of sticking to 5 at the back regardless of form, results, injuries and availability is absolutely ridiculous.

Him and his system don’t have anywhere near enough credit in the bank for that.

He could have gone for 4231/433 yesterday with the players available and we’d have looked far more balanced. Just like Ruud did when he came in and we looked far better for it. Instead he’d rather throw a cup competition over backing down. It’s just as stubborn as ETH and the ridiculous system he refused to deviate from, which ultimately cosy him his job. If the same happens to Amorim, he can have no complaints.
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Imagine if pep arrived at city and didn't have the players so just played what the players wanted.

Amorim was hired to implement his system
 
Rozay said:
But he has had actual forwards that he can play in their best roles and have Amad at WB if he wanted too, and he’s made his choice that he’d rather Mazraoui at RWB than Garnacho, Rashford or Antony in attack.

And also, let’s not pretend that Amad’s position as an inside 10 is not and has not always been his natural position. He is no more a WB than Dalot is, and has not been moved from his optimal position in order to play as a 10.
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He has, yes. That's a pretty damning indictment on the likes of Garnacho, Rashford and Antony.

Amad is naturally an attack minded player. However, it just so happens that Amad is also, in Amorim's eyes, a better fit at right wing-back than any other option we have. If we could have two of him, we would jump at the chance. Hence the interest in Quenda.
 
TheNewEra said:
Imagine if pep arrived at city and didn't have the players so just played what the players wanted.

Amorim was hired to implement his system
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This line keeps getting trotted about and it's a load of crap. When we suggest he adapt to the players he has, it's not about playing what THEY want to play but trying to play to their strengths and minimizing their weaknesses. It's basic football management, yet neither ETH or Amorim appear to understand that.
 
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