Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Arsenal had and have forwards capable of scoring 10-15 league goals. Saka, Havertz, Martinelli...
It's exactly what we're missing.
Havertz is memed a lot, but he has scored more goals this season than our entire frontline put together.

Speculating that Zirkzee as false 9 in 442 would lead to Rashford and Amad scoring 20 goals each is some next level theorycraft.
 
Toshey said:
Arsenal had and have forwards capable of scoring 10-15 league goals. Saka, Havertz, Martinelli...
It's exactly what we're missing.
Havertz is memed a lot, but he has scored more goals this season than our entire frontline put together.

Speculating that Zirkzee as false 9 in 442 would lead to Rashford and Amad scoring 20 goals each is some next level theorycraft.
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I can see Zirkzee becoming very good at holding up the ball and putting others through. His final ball isn‘t good enough yet, but he is good at dribbling out of tight spaces.

Højlund looks broken, imo he needs a loan somewhere.
 
NLunited said:
I can see Zirkzee becoming very good at holding up the ball and putting others through. His final ball isn‘t good enough yet, but he is good at dribbling out of tight spaces.

Højlund looks broken, imo he needs a loan somewhere.
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Hojlund and Zirkzee are not the only problems.
Garnacho has scored 2 out of what...17 big chances? Appaling, considering his selfishness and ego.

If some of these 3 doesn't hit form we are in big trouble.
 
Marwood said:
But look at Arsenal struggling now they have a few forwards out injured. Haven't scored in 3 of their last 4 games. The one they did score in was against Leicester.

How well drilled you are can only do so much if you don't have the talent.
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Arsenal have scored 51 goals this season despite the fact that none of their attackers have individually done amazingly. A poor run of form in 4 games is not very meaningful IMO, many teams have such runs of form throughout the season regardless of injury situations.
 
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Iker Quesadillas said:
Arsenal have scored 51 goals this season despite the fact that none of their attackers have individually done amazingly. A poor run of form in 4 games is not very meaningful IMO, many teams have such runs of form throughout the season regardless of injury situations.
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You don't think recently struggling to score goals and recently suffering more injuries up top are linked?
 
JPRouve said:
That's why I said in theory, a healthy and in form Rashford can get you between 15 and 20 goals. Amad I have no idea. Also it should be said that there is almost never more than 4 players in the league that score 20 goals or more and in the last years in the PL it's more likely 2 or 3 players. Around Europe it's not rare to only see one player going beyond 20 goals.
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20 goal was over egging the pudding, realisticly 10-15 from the wide forwards with zirkzee probably getting another 10.

Rashford and Amad could potentially get more in a particuly good season. Both quality wide forwards. Zirkzee I feel would be a good foil for both. But it's never going to happen now unless we decide to remove Amorin in the summer.

The point is the squad has the required quality in all departments to at least have a good crack at top 4/5. But the team hasn't been set up correctly for 18 months so we are where we are.
 
Longshanks said:
20 goal was over egging the pudding, realisticly 10-15 from the wide forwards with zirkzee probably getting another 10.

Rashford and Amad could potentially get more in a particuly good season. Both quality wide forwards. Zirkzee I feel would be a good foil for both. But it's never going to happen now unless we decide to remove Amorin in the summer.

The point is the squad has the required quality in all departments to at least have a good crack at top 4/5. But the team hasn't been set up correctly for 18 months so we are where we are.
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It sure as shit didn’t happen before Amorim took over, why would it happen after he’s left?
 
Toshey said:
Arsenal had and have forwards capable of scoring 10-15 league goals. Saka, Havertz, Martinelli...
It's exactly what we're missing.
Havertz is memed a lot, but he has scored more goals this season than our entire frontline put together.

Speculating that Zirkzee as false 9 in 442 would lead to Rashford and Amad scoring 20 goals each is some next level theorycraft.
Click to expand...

It’s total bollox is what it is.
 
Longshanks said:
20 goal was over egging the pudding, realisticly 10-15 from the wide forwards with zirkzee probably getting another 10.

Rashford and Amad could potentially get more in a particuly good season. Both quality wide forwards. Zirkzee I feel would be a good foil for both. But it's never going to happen now unless we decide to remove Amorin in the summer.

The point is the squad has the required quality in all departments to at least have a good crack at top 4/5. But the team hasn't been set up correctly for 18 months so we are where we are.
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Are we still on getting the best of Rashford? This one topic has been holding the progress of our attacking frontline hostage for years. His wages even made him a goner not Amorim, but if we're talking best setup then we have been catering to him for years with erratic shit on a stick football. With or without Amorim we need players who can do more than run with their head down and shoot. I don't want to be harsh but Zirkzee isn't even better than the Martial he was replacing. He's the last player I'd discuss binning any manager's setup for.
 
SilentWitness said:


He always speaks really well. :lol:
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Decent interview, a couple of worrying quotes though:

“I’m doing everything I know and we’re still losing”
“I’m giving everything, I want to change things, but sometimes your best is not good enough”
 
Ayoba said:
Decent interview, a couple of worrying quotes though:

“I’m doing everything I know and we’re still losing”
“I’m giving everything, I want to change things, but sometimes your best is not good enough”
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Hopefully just postering with the board to sign new players in summer.
 
Solius said:
Obviously not. Why would I say that it’s not a proper rebuild? There’s just different ones. Theirs worked (although they’ve barely won anything). We’re going a different route.
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It just seemed like you were discounting the people who want a rebuild like that and don't want the team wallowing near the relegation zone more than halfway into the season.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It sure as shit didn’t happen before Amorim took over, why would it happen after he’s left?
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Rashford, zirkzee and Amad have started a grand total of 3 games together.

We beat Southampton 3-0 away on the first one, and beat Everton 4-0 at home in the second. They also started against Plzen away with Rashford withdrew at halftime. But for a few minutes here are there in the rest of the games they have spent surprisingly little amount of time on the pitch together.

But it appears it sure as shit did happen before and during Amorins spell, granted from a very small sample.
 
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roseguy64 said:
It just seemed like you were discounting the people who want a rebuild like that and don't want the team wallowing near the relegation zone more than halfway into the season.
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We’ve tried rebuilds like that. Doesn’t seem to work for us. The club are way more rotten in all areas than Arsenal were.
 
pocco said:
I think so many United fans are living in a complete fantasy land right now. We’ve seen how some players suddenly get better on their eyes when they’ve been injured for a few weeks, suddenly they become amongst the best in the league if we change formation.
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Also,
When a coach is giving out defeats on turn, without even winning 2 PL games on the bounce, with training and new players we will transform to elite team.

2 things that exist as true. We have a poor team and we have a poor manager/coach.
When we will get good of either it will be visible.
 
I think Amorim still doesn’t know much totally about his players strength, weakness, and still learning about PL.

Some of the decision that he made such as playing Maz and Dalot as wingback instead of Amad against teams we should be aiming to win at home, playing Dalot and Mainoo on the same side while Dorgu played on the same side as Amad, which leaves no pace on the left flank. Pace is important in PL, it’s just the nature of how teams are playing in this league. He still trying to figure out what are his players best position for his system such as Mainoo, Zirkzee, Eriksen, Bruno, and etc.

Time will only tell. I hope this season will allow him to learn much more about his players and PL, which will help him for next season to set up his team and build his team.
 
Marwood said:
You don't think recently struggling to score goals and recently suffering more injuries up top are linked?
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Arsenal had a run of poor results early in the season, from matchday 8 to matchday 11. 1 win in 4 in the PL, 3 goals scored. They had their strikers available. Also lost a game in the CL. Not very different than their current results, with injuries.

Injuries, availability, quality of players matter, I don't dispute that. I only dispute the degree.
 
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SilentWitness said:


He always speaks really well. :lol:
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It's crazy that we've been hearing from three or four managers that the players can't implement how they play in training in actual matches.

That said you can actually see it happening in real time when watching them. They'll play for 15 minutes or so when you can see the instructions being carried out, and then everything just breaks down.
 
MF1138 said:
It's crazy that we've been hearing from three or four managers that the players can't implement how they play in training in actual matches.

That said you can actually see it happening in real time when watching them. They'll play for 15 minutes or so when you can see the instructions being carried out, and then everything just breaks down.
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Have we assembled the world's worst players
 
MF1138 said:
It's crazy that we've been hearing from three or four managers that the players can't implement how they play in training in actual matches.

That said you can actually see it happening in real time when watching them. They'll play for 15 minutes or so when you can see the instructions being carried out, and then everything just breaks down.
Click to expand...
Considering these are many different players spanning a decade, there is also the very real possibility that every single one of these managers was/is also a bit shit. At least when we hired them.
 
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2024&min=12&max=29

"The games with Amorim in charge, gives us a15th place with just 18 points, averaging 1.12 points per game.

I understand that managers need time, but there’s a limit to how bad the results can be—and that limit has been crossed.

We picked the wrong guy. We can’t build the club around his system. Nothing suggests that he’s the right man for the job."

Dan Ashworth was right all along.

Managers post Sir Alex
Michael Carrick32.33
Jose Mourinho1141.97
Erik ten Hag1281.84
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer1681.84
Louis van Gaal1031.81
Ryan Giggs41.75
David Moyes511.73
Ralf Rangnick291.45
 
MF1138 said:
It's crazy that we've been hearing from three or four managers that the players can't implement how they play in training in actual matches.

That said you can actually see it happening in real time when watching them. They'll play for 15 minutes or so when you can see the instructions being carried out, and then everything just breaks down.
Click to expand...
I think, this is an important point. I mean, obviously we are low on confidence right now and we are missing many potential starters for multiple reasons (but including being unhappy) so all of this will effect the current state. That being said, the biggest issue in my eyes is that our higher ups for way too long haven't understood all the factors, that SAF influenced when he was the manager. They haven't thouroughly understood, what exactly made him so good. I guess they also didn't realize that times have changed - Moyes, LVG, Jose, Ole - none of them are progressive modern coaches when they were with us so by the time Ole left, we were already years behind the trend of improving collective organisation. United, just like many fans until today, seemed to remain in blunt categories like good and bad, applying it to players and coaches, never really grasping why they were successful and what environment was needed. This led to multiple things, one becoming overreliant on specific players who were then payed over the odds which only meant opening the door to even more problems. And this is where we are today, in a bit of dead end, with a shot foot so turning around will be extra difficult.

The players aren't bad per se. But the composition isn't good. Not enough players in their physical prime around, too much pressure on inexperienced youngsters and too much outlay for players that should have been gone for years. I expect things to stay rough for a while.
 
Longshanks said:
20 goal was over egging the pudding, realisticly 10-15 from the wide forwards with zirkzee probably getting another 10.

Rashford and Amad could potentially get more in a particuly good season. Both quality wide forwards. Zirkzee I feel would be a good foil for both. But it's never going to happen now unless we decide to remove Amorin in the summer.

The point is the squad has the required quality in all departments to at least have a good crack at top 4/5. But the team hasn't been set up correctly for 18 months so we are where we are.
Click to expand...

Rashford has 36 league goals over the last 4 years. 10 of those came in a 10 week spell after the world cup.

He's supposed to he our main threat up top. You can't crack top 4 with that. Or at the very least it makes it very difficult.

This is what frustrates me when pundits only refer to the last two years with a Rashford. His drop in goal threat has been going on much longer.
 
Let him get his players in. Once we score more goals and get more solid at the back then teams will struggle to beat us as Amorim as shown that he can make a low block work.
 
DJ_21 said:
Let him get his players in. Once we score more goals and get more solid at the back then teams will struggle to beat us as Amorim as shown that he can make a low block work.
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No! He's not allowed this at all, he has to make this lot of shit players work! How can we know if he's a good coach/manager if he can't make stupid players stop doing simple Sunday league mistakes that leads to goals against (like no communication at the back, going up for simple 2nd balls, punching the ball out to the middle of the box where most opposition players are or not being able to clear a simple ball. Or on the other end where players can't finish chances that most PL level players would score).
 
When I see quotes of this guy speaking it almost always includes "suffering" and "few positives to take". Needs to start really raising morale now, we know we're shit. Try and make the situation better as our coach.
 
MF1138 said:
It's crazy that we've been hearing from three or four managers that the players can't implement how they play in training in actual matches.

That said you can actually see it happening in real time when watching them. They'll play for 15 minutes or so when you can see the instructions being carried out, and then everything just breaks down.
Click to expand...

Maybe because it's training and not a full speed Premier league with consequences.
 
JBG said:
No! He's not allowed this at all, he has to make this lot of shit players work! How can we know if he's a good coach/manager if he can't make stupid players stop doing simple Sunday league mistakes that leads to goals against (like no communication at the back, going up for simple 2nd balls, punching the ball out to the middle of the box where most opposition players are or not being able to clear a simple ball. Or on the other end where players can't finish chances that most PL level players would score).
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How on earth can a manager physically stop players making mistakes? It’s in there nature. Onana will always have mistakes in him. Players are humans and can make mistakes at any moment during games. Under pressure some players crack. A manager can’t knock that out of players. City’s defence and keeper as made mistakes, I guess that means pep isn’t a good coach. City have struggled this season by losing 1 player. 1 player being a DM and then they outspend every other prem team put together in January so again, does that make pep a good manager? The fact he couldn’t get a tune out of his already decent squad after losing 1 key player.
 
DJ_21 said:
How on earth can a manager physically stop players making mistakes? It’s in there nature. Onana will always have mistakes in him. Players are humans and can make mistakes at any moment during games. Under pressure some players crack. A manager can’t knock that out of players. City’s defence and keeper as made mistakes, I guess that means pep isn’t a good coach. City have struggled this season by losing 1 player. 1 player being a DM and then they outspend every other prem team put together in January so again, does that make pep a good manager? The fact he couldn’t get a tune out of his already decent squad after losing 1 key player.
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Sarcasm.... maybe not easy to "read" through text online. But thought with me exaggerating things that a manager physically can't do anything about helped.
 
JBG said:
Sarcasm.... maybe not easy to "read" through text online. But thought with me exaggerating things that a manager physically can't do anything about helped.
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Argh fair enough mate.
 
Shark said:
When I see quotes of this guy speaking it almost always includes "suffering" and "few positives to take". Needs to start really raising morale now, we know we're shit. Try and make the situation better as our coach.
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Aye I heard in private he's the same if not worse, just cries his eyes out and begs for his suffering to end. Huge worry.
 
DJ_21 said:
City have struggled this season by losing 1 player. 1 player being a DM and then they outspend every other prem team put together in January so again, does that make pep a good manager? The fact he couldn’t get a tune out of his already decent squad after losing 1 key player.
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City's issues are very different. They are a team that's been very successful for very long. It's hard to keep that going indefinitely, and the end can look rough.
Nonetheless they are 4th in the PL and it's not out of the question that they finish 3rd.
 
MUEricTheKing said:
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2024&min=12&max=29

"The games with Amorim in charge, gives us a15th place with just 18 points, averaging 1.12 points per game.

I understand that managers need time, but there’s a limit to how bad the results can be—and that limit has been crossed.

We picked the wrong guy. We can’t build the club around his system. Nothing suggests that he’s the right man for the job."

Dan Ashworth was right all along.

Managers post Sir Alex
Michael Carrick32.33
Jose Mourinho1141.97
Erik ten Hag1281.84
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer1681.84
Louis van Gaal1031.81
Ryan Giggs41.75
David Moyes511.73
Ralf Rangnick291.45
Click to expand...
Is this the same Dan Ashworth that kept ETH and basically destroyed the season before it even began?
 
FreakyJim said:
Is this the same Dan Ashworth that kept ETH and basically destroyed the season before it even began?
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No? As far as I understand Ashworth wasn't part of that conversation. IIRC the people involved were Wilcox, Blanc, Berrada and Brailsford.
 
FreakyJim said:
Is this the same Dan Ashworth that kept ETH and basically destroyed the season before it even began?
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Doesn't mean he was wrong about everything. Or maybe he thought Amorim would be even worse. So far, that's been the case.
 
Toshey said:
Arsenal had and have forwards capable of scoring 10-15 league goals. Saka, Havertz, Martinelli...
It's exactly what we're missing.
Havertz is memed a lot, but he has scored more goals this season than our entire frontline put together.

Speculating that Zirkzee as false 9 in 442 would lead to Rashford and Amad scoring 20 goals each is some next level theorycraft.
Click to expand...
If we had played with Amad and Garnacho on the wings and not in this horrible no wing formation, we would be scoring more.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
If we had played with Amad and Garnacho on the wings and not in this horrible no wing formation, we would be scoring more.
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How many goals has Garnacho scored from the wing previously?
How many big chances has he wasted this season?
 
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