Royal Marine found guilty of Afghanistan murder

It's a really tricky one. If his mental health is to be taken into consideration, then why not have him serve the manslaughter sentence in a hospital prison? If he's mentally unhinged enough to execute someone in a pressured situation, then who's to say he won't be quicker to snap next time?

FWIW, I can see the arguments for both murder & manslaughter, but he can't just be let out... Disgusting.

Dobba said:
After sending his mate onto national daytime TV to suggest we should be buying him a drink when he comes out and the footage of people outside the court cheering, surely not even you can still believe this? He's being heralded as a fecking hero. It isn't about him being guilty or innocent to them, because they don't believe there was even a case to answer for to begin with.
Click to expand...

Spot on. After all, to them he's just an unfortunate soldier who did the world a favour by dispatching of some evil brown guy.
 
diarm said:
This is an incredibly complex issue to resolve. Looking at the facts, he has broken the law and was fully aware of it at the time. But I find it very difficult to judge him as a human being having never been in such a situation or under such duress as they obviously were for an extended period of time.

Those of us who haven't been in that position will never understand how what happened happened, while those who have been will naturally be biased in his favour. Without labelling his crime using more conventional terminology like murder or manslaughter, I reckon a sentence which fits the seriousness of his wrongdoing, without costing him the rest of his life is probably the right decision.
Click to expand...
This is how I feel. Hearing the audio - the guy looks guilty (in the sense that he acknowledges what he did straight away and asks his mates not to tell anyone)

But I've never been in that situation with the realities so who I am to judge. A bit hypocritical to expect others to stick to geneva convention if we don't either though...
 
I'm still very sceptical about the changing of his conviction. I do feel it looks more based on sentiment than evidence.

rcoobc said:
What are the two sides to this?
Click to expand...
IIRC, that he was looking out for the younger members of the team who were threatening to shoot the guy. That by killing him the team were able to move on away from danger, rather than waiting in a dangerous place for medics to show up who themselves would be in danger. That the level of stress he was under resulted in diminished responsibility.
Tommy said:
It's a really tricky one. If his mental health is to be taken into consideration, then why not have him serve the manslaughter sentence in a hospital prison? If he's mentally unhinged enough to execute someone in a pressured situation, then who's to say he won't be quicker to snap next time.
Click to expand...
His mental illness was considered to be temporary so there would be no need to have him in hospital.
Tommy said:
FWIW, I can see the arguments for both murder & manslaughter, but he can't just be let out... Disgusting.
Click to expand...
He has already served three years. That's why he's facing release.
 
SteveJ said:
'Keyboard warriors' is unfair and cheap - we can't all be in the armed forces.
Click to expand...

Do you think so? Al has been diagnosed with a mental disorder that meant his ability to "form a rational judgment" was "substantially impaired", yet the majority on here (who have never been anywhere near the front line) all know better and he is a murderer.

It's all very well to sit in your armchairs and pass judgement, we all know what should have been done, the reality is that it is hell on the frontline and on his sixth tour Al cracked, due to circumstances beyond his control. The verdict is not giving the Armed Forces carte blanche to shoot anyone at will, but saying that in this one particular case there were exceptional stressors, which made the murder conviction incorrect.
 
Dobba said:
Narrowing it to two is probably impossible. However many you end up with, one of them (and probably the most vocal) would absolutely justify anything done by a British soldier.
Click to expand...

Lol, that is a ridiculous statement.
 
The odd thing is that on the one hand you do have people assuming all sorts of things based on their judgement of the more extreme rabid 'patriotic' supporters and awarding their own diametrically opposed extreme 'pc opinions' whilst completely ignoring any expert evidence given during the re-trial or maybe having any experience in any aspect being totally unable to believe that the case and the support are a bit more nuanced.
 
Dobba said:
I look forward to you justifying him being heralded as a hero who we should buy a drink for, so I can take this as a compliment.
Click to expand...
I thought it was you who worded him being heralded as a hero. Please put me straight if that's not the case.
 
Dobba said:
I'll happily put you straight. In my opinion, the cnut is as far from a hero as it gets.
Click to expand...
But you seem to be completely unable to admit that it was you who mentioned the 'hero' word and that your latest challenge to @Red Diva is to an entirely different post.

S'hamazin. Rabid almost.
 
No matter how much stress he had he still shot an harmless captive cold blank. He should rot in jail, otherwise 'we' are no better than them.

With that said, if I saw a friend killed and his body parts hung in a tree I'd probably do the same.
 
oates said:
But you seem to be completely unable to admit that it was you who mentioned the 'hero' word and that your latest challenge to @Red Diva is to an entirely different post.

S'hamazin. Rabid almost.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but what on earth are you talking about? I'm referring to the reams of comments from the last 2+ years calling him a hero, with the crescendo being the cheering crowds outside the court today and inevitable newspaper front pages tomorrow. If I'm genuinely the first person you've seen use the word hero while discussing this case, then I really, really envy you because it has boiled my blood repeatedly.

I replied to that comment because I want to put what they consider a 'ridiculous statement' into context, so I know how much of a compliment it actually is.
 
Dobba said:
After sending his mate onto national daytime TV to suggest we should be buying him a drink when he comes out and the footage of people outside the court cheering, surely not even you can still believe this? He's being heralded as a fecking hero. It isn't about him being guilty or innocent to them, because they don't believe there was even a case to answer for to begin with.
Click to expand...
Dobba, it was you who claimed he was being treated as a hero.

@Red Diva never even mentioned the word and was having a back and forth with @SteveJ upon the phrase 'Keyboard Warrior'.

Why then should she need to justify your own personal claims of the situation how you see it and not she?

Dobba said:
I look forward to you justifying him being heralded as a hero who we should buy a drink for, so I can take this as a compliment.
Click to expand...
 
oates said:
Dobba, it was you who claimed he was being treated as a hero.

@Red Diva never even mentioned the word and was having a back and forth with @SteveJ upon the phrase 'Keyboard Warrior'.

Why then should she need to justify your own personal claims of the situation how you see it and not she?
Click to expand...
I genuinely don't know what to say to you. You're making absolutely no sense at all.
 
Dobba said:
I genuinely don't know what to say to you. You're making absolutely no sense at all.
Click to expand...
Look pal, you are the one who quoted a completely unrelated post from @Red Diva demanding she justify Al Blackman being labelled a hero when she did not but you in fact have interpreted his supporters to be which is hardly the whole truth but by all means don't try too hard to work out your own mistake.
 
Dobba said:
I look forward to you justifying him being heralded as a hero who we should buy a drink for, so I can take this as a compliment.
Click to expand...

Where have I called him a hero or advocated buying him a drink? This comment has absolutely nothing to do with me laughing at your statement
would absolutely justify anything done by a British soldier
Click to expand...
 
Red Diva said:
Where have I called him a hero or advocated buying him a drink? This comment has absolutely nothing to do with me laughing at your statement
Click to expand...
oates said:
I thought it was you who worded him being heralded as a hero. Please put me straight if that's not the case.
Click to expand...
Don't Red Diva, he don't get it.
 
oates said:
Look pal, you are the one who quoted a completely unrelated post from @Red Diva demanding she justify Al Blackman being labelled a hero when she did not but you in fact have interpreted his supporters to be which is hardly the whole truth but by all means don't try too hard to work out your own mistake.
Click to expand...
Her knowledgeable insights in to the views of marines on this topic have been a useful addition to this thread, I think, but here she ridiculed a statement that 'probably the most vocal' view was one that would justify anything being done by a British soldier. This is after already stating the views in support of the solider in question she mainly hears are from marine groups, which quite obviously are not indicative of the 'most vocal view', given the increased nuance she herself described.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Her knowledgeable insights in to the views of marines on this topic have been a useful addition to this thread, I think, but here she ridiculed a statement that 'probably the most vocal' view was one that would justify anything being done by a British soldier. This is after already stating the views in support of the solider in question she mainly hears are from marine groups, which quite obviously are not indicative of the 'most vocal view', given the increased nuance she herself described.
Click to expand...
Well she still didn't call him a hero which as far as I have seen is only being claimed by detractors such as @Dobba as how his supporters would see him.

At the end of the day, the most vocal - ie. The loudest isn't always the majority but I think you know this.

Of course the media like to put on a show with extreme attitudes for the sake of controversial argument eh?
 
Red Diva said:
Where have I called him a hero or advocated buying him a drink? This comment has absolutely nothing to do with me laughing at your statement
Click to expand...
I think you were too busy telling people who had an negative opinion on Marine A that they were keyboard warriors because they hadn't served. I also note that you didn't answer my question on whether you still believed 'very few' of his supporters think he's innocent.

oates said:
Well she still didn't call him a hero which as far as I have seen is only being claimed by detractors such as @Dobba as how his supporters would see him.
Click to expand...
In which case you have a wonderfully sheltered life, of which I am sincerely jealous.
 
Dobba said:
I think you were too busy telling people who had an negative opinion on Marine A that they were keyboard warriors because they hadn't served. I also note that you didn't answer my question on whether you still believed 'very few' of his supporters think he's innocent.
Click to expand...
I see you haven't answered Red Diva's question but hey, gotta have them double standards.
 
oates said:
Well she still didn't call him a hero which as far as I have seen is only being claimed by detractors such as @Dobba as how his supporters would see him.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid I've seen him called a hero many times, by supporters.
oates said:
At the end of the day, the most vocal - ie. The loudest isn't always the majority but I think you know this.
Click to expand...
Well, no, the majority opinion is almost certainly 'meh' but that's not really relevant.
oates said:
Of course the media like to put on a show with extreme attitudes for the sake of controversial argument eh?
Click to expand...
They do but that's partially because 'I don't know, he probably shouldn't have done that' versus 'I don't know but I guess he was under a lot of stress' doesn't make for a healthy debate.
 
Red Diva said:
Do you think so? Al has been diagnosed with a mental disorder that meant his ability to "form a rational judgment" was "substantially impaired", yet the majority on here (who have never been anywhere near the front line) all know better and he is a murderer.

It's all very well to sit in your armchairs and pass judgement, we all know what should have been done, the reality is that it is hell on the frontline and on his sixth tour Al cracked, due to circumstances beyond his control. The verdict is not giving the Armed Forces carte blanche to shoot anyone at will, but saying that in this one particular case there were exceptional stressors, which made the murder conviction incorrect.
Click to expand...
Fine, but your opinions on this matter are - understandably - biased.
 
oates said:
I see you haven't answered Red Diva's question but hey, gotta have them double standards.
Click to expand...
Where exactly did I say they'd used it? Something which you haven't quoted. I also find it odd that you managed to work out that I was referring to someone else from the 'buy him a drink' half of that sentence, but didn't manage it with the bit you keep on quoting.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I'm afraid I've seen him called a hero many times, by supporters.
Click to expand...
Possibly I read the wrong papers or watch the wrong channels.

DiseaseOfTheAge said:
They do but that's partially because 'I don't know, he probably shouldn't have done that' versus 'I don't know but I guess he was under a lot of stress' doesn't make for a healthy debate.
Click to expand...
In the context of providing justice when manslaughter does not equal murder the justice is an entirely 'Healthy Debate'.
 
Dobba said:
Where exactly did I say they'd used it? Something which you haven't quoted. I also find it odd that you managed to work out that I was referring to someone else from the 'buy him a drink' half of that sentence, but didn't manage it with the bit you keep on quoting.
Click to expand...
Odd isn't it. You still can't see that it was entirely unrelated to anything she said. Very odd but I'll get over it.
 
Dobba said:
I'll take that as an apology. Cheers.
Click to expand...
And yet you still think that is justification for demanding, nay stamping your little foot, with Red Diva who never called him a 'hero'.

So it's not an apology but you should take more water with it.
 
I can see why people make the mistake of claiming they see the most vocal arguments when the press or social media is the one they prefer to quote.
 
oates said:
I can see why people make the mistake of claiming they see the most vocal arguments when the press or social media is the one they prefer to quote.
Click to expand...
Not that I have made such a claim, myself, but may I ask how we are to judge what constitutes the 'most vocal arguments', in your view?
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Not that I have made such a claim, myself, but may I ask how we are to judge what constitutes the 'most vocal arguments', in your view?
Click to expand...
All I'm saying is that one idiot demanding that one person justifies what another is saying despite it not being what that one person is saying is idiotic to the nth degree .
 
oates said:
All I'm saying is that one idiot demanding that one person justifies what another is saying despite it not being what that one person is not saying is idiotic to the nth degree .
Click to expand...
I thought you were saying something about how people make the mistake of claiming they see the most vocal arguments when the press or social media is the one they prefer to quote.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I thought you were saying something about how people make the mistake of claiming they see the most vocal arguments when the press or social media is the one they prefer to quote.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm saying that one idiot reads something that someone has said and then tries to make another person who does not subscribe to that view, has not said it and possibly cannot be found saying it on any of the social media she uses or reads, justify what the idiot has read in the first place. is that enough of a connection social media wise?
 
oates said:
All I'm saying is that one idiot demanding that one person justifies what another is saying despite it not being what that one person is saying is idiotic to the nth degree .
Click to expand...
What has this got to do with the question they asked? Something about goose and gander springs to mind given the last hour or so.

oates said:
Yeah, I'm saying that one idiot reads something that someone has said and then tries to make another person who does not subscribe to that view, has not said it and possibly cannot be found saying it on any of the social media she uses or reads, justify what the idiot has read in the first place. is that enough of a connection social media wise?
Click to expand...
oates said:
All I'm saying is that one idiot demanding that one person justifies what another is saying despite it not being what that one person is not saying is idiotic to the nth degree .
Click to expand...
So you're against people being grouped together despite not saying the thing you're accusing them of. So as I was grouped into 'keyboard warriors' by said person earlier in this thread (on account of not serving) 'who all know better and he is a murderer' can you show me the post where I call Blackman a murderer please?
 
Dobba said:
What has this got to do with the question they asked? Something about goose and gander springs to mind given the last hour or so.
Click to expand...
Dear oh dear, can you really be that dense?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.