Roy Keane

devilish said:
Lets be blunt. We were playing dog shit at the time (Keane's admission in that infamous interview). Then Keane left, Carrick came and we won the league.
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I think that era was the low point of Fergie's golden era at United, the team played rancid football most of the time (although I blame a lot of that on CQ's influence with his Portuguese style). I used to go to games in those days and the 'attack attack attack' chants were not uncommon.

Jimmy_Bond said:
In Keanes time at the club we won 7 Leagues, 4 FA Cups and a Champion's League. Two Doubles and a Treble.

In the period you mention we won 5 Leagues, 3 League Cups and 1 Champion's League.

So no, it's not debatable. Keane was very much apart of the most successful period in our club's history, without question. In my opinion he was the most important player, which of course is up for debate.
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The period after Keane left we made 3 Champions League finals in 4 years, only thwarted from being crowned as one of the very greatest clubs sides of all time by the team considered the greatest club side of all time (thanks Baldy). For me it isn't really arguable that it was Fergie's best side. We also won 3 titles on the bounce when the PL was indisputably the strongest league in the world. All of our top 4 rivals were capable of winning the Champions League in that era and either did or lost in the final.

Keane isn't dead to me though, nor is Neville. Both are good value in their own way. I kind of find Keane's bitterness and misanthropy good entertainment.
 
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Classical Mechanic said:
I think that era was the low point of Fergie's golden era at United, the team played rancid football most of the time (although I blame a lot of that on CQ's influence with his Portuguese style). I used to go to games in those days and the 'attack attack attack' chants were not uncommon.

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Lets be clear, Keane was a beast. He wasn't just a top top player but also a great leader as well. However by that time age did caught up and Sir Alex was keeping him out of respect, in the same way he did with the likes of Gaz, Robson and co. I do agree with Keane that nepotism/sentimentalism/favouritism is what ultimately ruined United. By the end of his reign Sir Alex had employed his son, his brother and his business partner (Owen). However that same nepotism/sentimentalism/favouritism kept Keane with United past his expiry date and is the same nepotism/sentimentalism/favouritism Keano was banking upon to remain cashing a good salary even though he was finished as a player.

Its amazing how even at that time, the need of a DOF whose totally detached from the team, hence not prone to sentimentalism was already felt. A top DOF would have asked Sir Alex if it made sense keeping an old player, who could barely run anymore, on such huge salary.
 
Never.. He played the same hot headed way he talks.. He was our captain and is still bitter about how it all ended for him.. Just shows to me that he still cares..
 
kotha said:
Never.. He played the same hot headed way he talks.. He was our captain and is still bitter about how it all ended for him.. Just shows to me that he still cares..
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I don't think caring is the right word to use here. The guy feels that he gave United his all and should therefore be rewarded with extra years of contract even though it was evident that he was finished as a player. That sounds outrageous from a purely football point of view. Why would a club do that? However, when you take in consideration that other people seemed to have sucked the club dry merely because they happened to be relatives/friends of Sir Alex then the perspective does change.

In reality if the board had an idea of football and a backbone then none of this would have happened. The club would have refused to keep Keane (and Robson, and Gaz, and Carrick etc) past their expiry date and would have delved deep in why Sir Alex wanted some failed Hibernian coach as his chief scout when they could have attracted way more experienced people for the job. This issue remained till present time with LVG/Mou signing players who were clearly not up to the task mainly because they were their mates.
 
minh_loc_xoay said:
If Keane didn't leave us, we wouldn't have lost the Champions League Final against Barca in 2009. We would have become the first team to win Champions League back-to-back.
He could even have snapped Messi's leg in that match and Messi wouldn't go on to be such a great player. Ronaldo might have felt the Liga not as challenging without Messi and stayed with us. That would easily win us another Champions League title in the year after, not losing to Bayern in such a manner.

Yeah,we could have won 4 Champions League titles back-to-back from 2018 - 2011 if Keane was still here. Madness...
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Keane was already retired player by then, also in last few seasons he was already past his best and we played players who covered him defensively or played players who had good work rate.
 
devilish said:
Lets be clear, Keane was a beast. He wasn't just a top top player but also a great leader as well. However by that time age did caught up and Sir Alex was keeping him out of respect, in the same way he did with the likes of Gaz, Robson and co. I do agree with Keane that nepotism/sentimentalism/favouritism is what ultimately ruined United. By the end of his reign Sir Alex had employed his son, his brother and his business partner (Owen). However that same nepotism/sentimentalism/favouritism kept Keane with United past his expiry date and is the same nepotism/sentimentalism/favouritism Keano was banking upon to remain cashing a good salary even though he was finished as a player.

Its amazing how even at that time, the need of a DOF whose totally detached from the team, hence not prone to sentimentalism was already felt. A top DOF would have asked Sir Alex if it made sense keeping an old player, who could barely run anymore, on such huge salary.
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I think it was actually probably a good power play by Fergie in the short term. There was a lot of talk that 'the old man has lost it' and that United were on the cusp of a decline at that time. I remember when we signed Rooney and Wenger described the signing as something we had to do just to keep in touch with the leading pack. A lot of fans were starting to get twitchy about where the club was heading. I think what happened with Keane ultimately reasserted Fergie's authority and ruthlessness and helped us kick on into a new era.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I think it was actually probably a good power play by Fergie in the short term. There was a lot of talk that 'the old man has lost it' and that United were on the cusp of a decline at that time. I remember when we signed Rooney and Wenger described the signing as something we had to do just to keep in touch with the leading pack. A lot of fans were starting to get twitchy about where the club was heading. I think what happened with Keane ultimately reasserted Fergie's authority and ruthlessness and helped us kick on into a new era.
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Never looked at it from that perspective, it’s a good point.
 
I'll always consider Gary Neville and Roy Keane legends due to their careers at United despite some of their post-United actions. It's extremely difficult to erase someone's contributions to the club especially when they're as numerous as Keane's.
 
King7Eric said:
I'm gonna come out and say it. The people who are find his comments "distasteful" and all that are the kind of boring people you wouldn't want to hang out with at the end of a day in a pub. He's a colorful character and I love him for it. I'm sure even SAF would say the same and probably laugh off whatever Roy's saying. It wouldn't bother him and he'd carry on and that's how it should be. At least Roy has the guts to call things as they are rather than neuter his comments like most modern day politically correct pundits.
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You were doing so well until you put politically correct in there.
 
Jimmy_Bond said:
"Is Roy Keane dead to you?"

No, as a rational adult people can say things that I may not agree with without them "dying" to me.

Keane is the most important player of the most successful era in our history in my opinion. I also agree with a lot of what he says, whilst disagreeing with some things.

The hysteria of this thread title, in my opinion is pathetic, but an apt portrayal of the modern day supporter.
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First bolded. I think 06-11 is our most successful period, statistically. 4 titles, 1 point and GD away from 6 consecutive titles. 2 league cups (if memory serves) and 3 CL finals.

And the thread title, I'm pretty sure it's parody over the Gary Neville thread title. Relax mate.
 
Don't see much wrong with that he said tbh, it was all factually correct. It sounded like the primary thing that annoyed him was being told he would be able to sign for another club, and that's something only he and Fergie know about, maybe Gill and Keanes lawyer.

Do think his comments about Walters were off though.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I think it was actually probably a good power play by Fergie in the short term. There was a lot of talk that 'the old man has lost it' and that United were on the cusp of a decline at that time. I remember when we signed Rooney and Wenger described the signing as something we had to do just to keep in touch with the leading pack. A lot of fans were starting to get twitchy about where the club was heading. I think what happened with Keane ultimately reasserted Fergie's authority and ruthlessness and helped us kick on into a new era.
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Roy Keane being 34 at the time made Fergies decision easier. Would have been interesting if it was a 27 year old Roy Keane.
 
Bubz27 said:
First bolded. I think 06-11 is our most successful period, statistically. 4 titles, 1 point and GD away from 6 consecutive titles. 2 league cups (if memory serves) and 3 CL finals.
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Finals mean nothing when you lose them. We were beaten soundly in both finals. Second place is second place no matter what the distance is. We won more trophies when Keane was here. It was a more successful period, without question. Don't forget how important the FA Cup was in those days as well. 7 titles, 4 FA Cups and a CL is incredible (considering two were doubles and one an unprecedented treble), and is an era unsurpassed by any other era in our history.

Another argument I never thought I'd have to have, courtesy of The Caf!!!
 
Nah, not at all. He was captain of our greatest ever team. He and Sir Alex not getting on 20 years later is irrelevant, they were on the same page when it counted and that's all that matters.

He makes a good point about Fergie's "chief scout" brother. Name one player he found :lol:
 
I love Roy Keane and Gary Neville for what they did for Manchester United on the football pitch. I couldn't care less what they say after they have retired.
 
A rational adult should be able to like and respect two people even if those two dislike eachother. Doesn't mean you have to choose.
His comments about Walters were far more oathetic imo.
 
Jimmy_Bond said:
"Is Roy Keane dead to you?"

No, as a rational adult people can say things that I may not agree with without them "dying" to me.

Keane is the most important player of the most successful era in our history in my opinion. I also agree with a lot of what he says, whilst disagreeing with some things.

The hysteria of this thread title, in my opinion is pathetic, but an apt portrayal of the modern day supporter.
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Totally agree. The OP should be embarrassed with such a over the top dramatic headline . These social media United fans are a touchy bunch No1 can say a word about current players or ex players or Managers . I come on here and honestly it's with more frequency that I'm embarrassed or I just laugh at the things being posted
 
Josh 76 said:
Roy Keane being 34 at the time made Fergies decision easier. Would have been interesting if it was a 27 year old Roy Keane.
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It wouldn't have happened in his prime of course, the BS that came with Keane was tolerated because of how good he was. Personally I had had enough of Keane by that point. If you remember the Champions League in 2004, a tournament we had a great chance of winning, he did a really scummy stamp on Victor Baia in the quarter final and got sent off in a tie that we eventually lost. I think that the management looked at that incident and thought that he just wasn't good enough anymore to justify kind of low behaviour that disadvantaged us on the pitch.
 
Never. Alongside Robbo, Buchan and Bruce, they were four of the most committed players to the club since the 1968 squad.

Keano is also the foil to Fergie’s self-myth making - his torrid autobiographies and his teachings at Harvard - which neatly ignore his rank nepotism, his favouritism, his poor choice of successor and his support for the Glazers.

However, I expected more from the interview, but it all seemed rather tame.
 
Jimmy_Bond said:
In Keanes time at the club we won 7 Leagues, 4 FA Cups and a Champion's League. Two Doubles and a Treble.

In the period you mention we won 5 Leagues, 3 League Cups and 1 Champion's League.

So no, it's not debatable. Keane was very much apart of the most successful period in our club's history, without question. In my opinion he was the most important player, which of course is up for debate.
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Some people think that being humiliated by Barcelona in a CL final (twice!) is some sort of an achievement, its as if they view at as a trophy, they’re wrong, it was embarrassing.
Our best and most dominant period was indeed when Roy Keane was at the club.
 
Sir Scott McToMinay said:
Some people think that being humiliated by Barcelona in a CL final (twice!) is some sort of an achievement, its as if they view at as a trophy, they’re wrong, it was embarrassing.
Our best and most dominant period was indeed when Roy Keane was at the club.
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I also think the failure to properly respond to those defeats was the beginning of where we are today.
 
Sir Scott McToMinay said:
Some people think that being humiliated by Barcelona in a CL final (twice!) is some sort of an achievement, they’re wrong, it was embarrassing.
Our best and most dominant period was indeed when Roy Keane was at the club.
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We dominated domestically when the league was markedly weaker than it was post Keane and we only had one real rival. The Premier League was the strongest in the world when we won 3 titles 06-09. In 2008 when we won the CL, 3/4 semi finalists were Premier Leagues. We made 3 Champions League finals in that era too. Only beaten by the greatest club side of all time. I don't think we were humiliated in 09 either, in 11 sure. The level of the team was just higher in that era by all logical and tangible measures.
 
Sir Scott McToMinay said:
Some people think that being humiliated by Barcelona in a CL final (twice!) is some sort of an achievement, its as if they view at as a trophy, they’re wrong, it was embarrassing.
Our best and most dominant period was indeed when Roy Keane was at the club.
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The modern day fan overvalues the CL in every way due to the ridiculous media hype that surrounds it. It's a cup competition, and rarely does the best team in Europe win it. For me it's simply replaced the FA Cup as the most important competition after the Premier League.

Finishing runners up in the CL means absolutely nothing to me. If you said to me that in the next 10 years you can win the CL 10 times or the PL 5 times I'd choose the second option every time.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
We dominated domestically when the league was markedly weaker than it was post Keane and we only had one real rival. The Premier League was the strongest in the world when we won 3 titles 06-09. In 2008 when we won the CL, 3/4 semi finalists were Premier Leagues. We made 3 Champions League finals in that era too. Only beaten by the greatest club side of all time. I don't think we were humiliated in 09 either, in 11 sure. The level of the team was just higher in that era by all logical and tangible measures.
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I don’t view reaching a CL final as a trophy, particularly with the teams we’ve faced in the 10-11 season, it was a non achievement to reach that final, other than Chelsea we haven’t faced a single half decent side, we were far from a being a great team that season, any of our 90’s teams would’ve decimated our 10-11 team comfortably.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
We dominated domestically when the league was markedly weaker than it was post Keane and we only had one real rival.
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Nonsense. There was Blackburn who were the Chelsea of those days breaking transfer records left right and centre followed by Keegan's Newcastle who were full of stars and had the world's most expensive player and then two Arsenal teams both of whom were amongst the best ever in PL history.
 
Jimmy_Bond said:
Finals mean nothing when you lose them. We were beaten soundly in both finals. Second place is second place no matter what the distance is. We won more trophies when Keane was here. It was a more successful period, without question. Don't forget how important the FA Cup was in those days as well. 7 titles, 4 FA Cups and a CL is incredible (considering two were doubles and one an unprecedented treble), and is an era unsurpassed by any other era in our history.

Another argument I never thought I'd have to have, courtesy of The Caf!!!
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That will be because you can’t compare a similar length of time while Alex Ferguson was still at the club. In the seven years after Keane left we won more than the seven prior.
 
He's not really committed to getting into management again though is he? He wants to be handed a premier league job or at worst a championship job.

Also funny to see him criticize someone about man management.
 
acnumber9 said:
That will be because you can’t compare a similar length of time while Alex Ferguson was still at the club. In the seven years after Keane left we won more than the seven prior.
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And in Keane's first seven years we won more than in the period you refer to. What ever way you look at it, Keane was here for our most successful period, and was captain for what is widely regarded as the best team in our history.
 
Nope. Fergie being a legend doesn't exclude the fact that he was also a very selfish and driven individual who had his own interests at heart. Everyone's flawed and Roy was close enough to see it first hand. We aren't and hence we put him up on a pedestal and rightly so. The same way I can appreciate Keane was the greatest centre mid i've seen at United and I love the guy. I can appreciate that Fergie was the greatest ever manager and we owe him everything but he also used his power do things in his families interest. Such as having his brother as head scout and his son on the books.

Everything Roy he says comes from a place of passion, misplaced or otherwise. I think they are actually both very similar men and that's one of the reasons Roy was Fergie's voice on the pitch. However, when such strong personalities and egos are together for long periods of time conflicts will naturally arise.
 
Sir Scott McToMinay said:
I don’t view reaching a CL final as a trophy, particularly with the teams we’ve faced in the 10-11 season, it was a non achievement to reach that final, other than Chelsea we haven’t faced a single half decent side, we were far from a being a great team that season, any of our 90’s teams would’ve decimated our 10-11 team comfortably.
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It isn't a trophy of obviously but its a statement that you are at the absolute elite level. Sure the 11 final run was a gift and admittedly that side was weaker than the Ronaldo era 06-09 side which was the strongest side United have ever had.

Jimmy_Bond said:
Nonsense. There was Blackburn who were the Chelsea of those days breaking transfer records left right and centre followed by Keegan's Newcastle who were full of stars and had the world's most expensive player and then two Arsenal teams both of whom were amongst the best ever in PL history.
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We only had one real rival at a time. Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea was in 2003 when we (and Keane) went into decline until Keane left so that doesn't support your argument.

In 03-04 we finished 3rd - 15 points behind the winners (Keane made 31 league appearances for the club in this season)
In 04-05 we finished 3rd - 18 points behind the winners (Keane made 28 League appearances for the club in this season)
In 05-06 we finished 2nd - 8 points behind the winners (Keane made 6 league appearances for the club in this season)

This period was when the Premier League grew to be the best in Europe.

2005 - Liverpool win the CL.
2006 - Arsenal are finalists.
2007 - Liverpool are finalists.
2008 - United are Champions and Chelsea finalists
2009 - United are finalists.

All of our top 4 rivals either win the competition or make the final.
 
You can only be disappointed by things like these if you build people up to be infallible (Ferguson or Keane).

you guys will be alright, I promise
 
Adisa said:
A rational adult should be able to like and respect two people even if those two dislike eachother. Doesn't mean you have to choose.
His comments about Walters were far more oathetic imo.
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Pretty much how I feel. They may not like each other but I love them both. Keane was perhaps our greatest ever captain and a brilliant player to boot, while Sir Alex is the greatest of them all and embodies Manchester United. Both have said things that agree and don't agree with, still doesn't make me think less of them.
 
Cockney Phil said:
Never. Alongside Robbo, Buchan and Bruce, they were four of the most committed players to the club since the 1968 squad.

Keano is also the foil to Fergie’s self-myth making - his torrid autobiographies and his teachings at Harvard - which neatly ignore his rank nepotism, his favouritism, his poor choice of successor and his support for the Glazers.

However, I expected more from the interview, but it all seemed rather tame.
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I agree, honestly have no idea what all the fuss is about - it's mostly stuff he has already said before many times.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
It isn't a trophy of obviously but its a statement that you are at the absolute elite level. Sure the 11 final run was a gift and admittedly that side was weaker than the Ronaldo era 06-09 side which was the strongest side United have ever had.



We only had one real rival at a time. Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea was in 2003 when we (and Keane) went into decline until Keane left so that doesn't support your argument.

In 03-04 we finished 3rd - 15 points behind the winners (Keane made 31 league appearances for the club in this season)
In 04-05 we finished 3rd - 18 points behind the winners (Keane made 28 League appearances for the club in this season)
In 05-06 we finished 2nd - 8 points behind the winners (Keane made 6 league appearances for the club in this season)

This period was when the Premier League grew to be the best in Europe.

2005 - Liverpool win the CL.
2006 - Arsenal are finalists.
2007 - Liverpool are finalists.
2008 - United are Champions and Chelsea finalists
2009 - United are finalists.

All of our top 4 rivals either win the competition or make the final.
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You're comparing a period when 4 teams qualified for the CL to a time when 1 team qualified, and later 2.

Also, almost every season has been a two horse race in the end.

Keane's period was the most successful in our history. The period in which we started to decline in the early to mid naughties were when he was old and past his best and getting injured regularly.
 
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