[Litch]

I think it is a combination of both. Youngs crossing was poor no doubt, but Lukakus movement was poor as well.

Even under Mourinho Rashford was always making clever runs in behind.

Lukakus movement is something i saw in other games under Mourinho. He seems to just expect the ball to magically land at his feet.

I get that and it might be the case but I'm not sure where he'd have moved to? Burnley played really deep with men behind the ball so there was zero space. Also we aren't sure what Ole asked him to do....

 

[Bwuk]

Would have Rashford, Sanchez and Martial all at 9 instead of him.

What’s the point of him?

 

[Cockney Phil]

He got a couple of assists against Arsenal but his all round play was barely above average. As usual his control failed him. Tonight he was truly awful, neither a mighty presence engaging their defenders nor an attacking striker charging forward. His options reduce with every game, which makes his transfer price look more than just over inflated. Not sure he can be re-profiled to fit and maybe he has to go.

 

[Litch]

He was moving far more with Everton because he was slim and lean. If you check his Everton goals and now you'll notice how his body has changed. With Everton he was lean, thus fast and aggressive. Now he has become a muscular bulk and all these muscles slowed him a lot and made him very static.

Lukaku of United is nothing like Lukaku of Everton, sadly enough.

I had posted this video here previously. Check his goals with Everton and compare his body to our current player. You won't help but feel it's a completely different player, for the worse unfortunately.

So now your suggesting that Utd with there millions invested in players fitness and nutrition would have missed that? I can see it now, the fitness coach of this billion pound squad saying, how did I miss the fact that Rom was better when he was less bulky. Forget the science and the data and all that rubbish that I've gathered.....absolute rubbish and didn't see it hindering him or him being any slower when he was terrorising Brazil last summer.

 

[Canagel]

I get that and it might be the case but I'm not sure where he'd have moved to? Burnley played really deep with men behind the ball so there was zero space. Also we aren't sure what Ole asked him to do....

He should be switching up his game. Back post isn't working why don't you try near post once in a while and make a gamble? Top strikers make average balls into somewhat useful ball. Lukaku doesn't have this.

 

[el3mel]

So now your suggesting that Utd with there millions invested in players fitness and nutrition would have missed that? I can see it now, the fitness coach of this billion pound squad saying, how did I miss the fact that Rom was better when he was less bulky. Forget the science and the data and all that rubbish that I've gathered.....absolute rubbish and didn't see it hindering him or him being any slower when he was terrorising Brazil last summer.

Lukaku himself said he bulked a lot for the world cup and it hindered him down. Stop arguing for the sake of it. I don't know what's some's problem in admitting they were wrong in one point.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/09/romelu-lukaku-world-cup-belgium-manchester-united

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

He's making it hard for himself for whoever our next manager is next season to persist with him.

 

[Litch]

He should be switching up his game. Back post isn't working why don't you try near post once in a while and make a gamble? Top strikers make average balls into somewhat useful ball. Lukaku doesn't have this.

I'll say it again, how did he score so many goals, off his backside? I get why people don't rate him but the one thing the lad has proven is the ability to score goals. Maybe it's me but I'd sooner focus on what he can do than what he can't. Since Ole's taken over, his return is as good as anyone's especially starting from the bench....,

 

[hobbers]

Playing Mata and Lukaku in a front 3 is just suicidal. They emphasise each others weaknesses to the fullest extent possible.

In other words, why are you playing a guy who cant run with a guy who cant control the ball? How are they supposed to interact on the pitch?

 

[Litch]

Lukaku himself said he bulked a lot for the world cup and it hindered him down. Stop arguing for the sake of it. I don't know what's some's problem in admitting they were wrong in one point.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/09/romelu-lukaku-world-cup-belgium-manchester-united

It's laughable because you aren't suggesting his bulking up is anything to do with his form this season, you talk about his shape at Everton compared to his time at Utd. Also I didn't say his body shape hadn't changed, just I'm sure if the club thought it was to his detriment, they'd do something about it.
In fact if you read it properly he suggests he's already addressed it...That was something that when I came back (World Cup) I knew straight away: ‘Nah, I cannot play in this style like this.’ I had to lose muscle basically. So you just stay out of the gym, drink a lot of water, and a lot of veg and fish and it helps.”

He talks about "when he came back", which would suggest it was resolved before the start of the season.

I don't have have any problem admitting I was wrong as neither do I think I'm always right.

 

[MetoTTT]

Now Thierry Henry was sacked, we could sign him as attacking players/forwards coach. He did an excellent job with Lukaku (Belgium NT) and it could benefit to all of them (Martial, Rash, Lingard). He can be a pundit again during the week-end if he wants. That will p***s off Arsenal fans too.

 

[Jeppers7]

We lose so much of what's good about us when Lukaku plays. Add in mata and it's not going to work.

 

[el3mel]

It's laughable because you aren't suggesting his bulking up is anything to do with his form this season, you talk about his shape at Everton compared to his time at Utd. Also I didn't say his body shape hadn't changed, just I'm sure if the club thought it was to his detriment, they'd do something about it.
In fact if you read it properly he suggests he's already addressed it...That was something that when I came back I knew straight away: ‘Nah, I cannot play in this style like this.’ I had to lose muscle basically. So you just stay out of the gym, drink a lot of water, and a lot of veg and fish and it helps.”

He talks about "when he came back", which would suggest it was resolved before the start of the season.

I don't have have any problem admitting I was wrong, but neither do I think I'm always right.

This quotes were in December, one month ago. He also didn't say it was solved :

Lukaku is now on a different fitness regime. “[There is] more prevention in the gym and I am trying to do speed bursts in training and that’s the most essential,” he said.

Seriously I gave up. There's nothing beyond bringing videos and actual quotes I can do anymore to convince you of an actual thing. If you're not into believing bulking up has hindered him as he said it himself then I can't do anything. As I said it's pretty hard for some to admit they were wrong at one point.

 

[RedDevil5]

Don't think he's good enough, not for his price and wages. Appears to be better at RW than ST, but hard to say he's a permanent RW player. Just a complete misfit. Him and Alexis costing us over half a million a week, absolutely shocking. I would sell in the summer unless he plays very well the next couple of months.

 

[Litch]

This quotes were in December, one month ago. He also didn't say it was solved :



Seriously I gave up. There's nothing beyond bringing videos and actual quotes I can do anymore to convince you of an actual thing. If you're not into believing bulking up has hindered him as he said it himself then I can't do anything. As I said it's pretty hard for some to admit they were wrong at one point.

Nor did he say the problem was in Dec but I'm guessing that's how you've interpreted it. He didn't say it hindered him, he said he realised it would if he didn't do something about it...That was something that when I came back I knew straight away: ‘Nah, I cannot play in this style like this.’ I had to lose muscle basically. So you just stay out of the gym, drink a lot of water, and a lot of veg and fish and it helps.”

With your own quote, show me where he says it hindered him or does it not imply it 'would' have hindered him if he didn't do something about it....

 

[el3mel]

Nor did he say the problem was in Dec but I'm guessing that's how you've interpreted it. He didn't say it hindered him, he said he realised it would if he didn't do something about it...That was something that when I came back I knew straight away: ‘Nah, I cannot play in this style like this.’ I had to lose muscle basically. So you just stay out of the gym, drink a lot of water, and a lot of veg and fish and it helps.”

With your own quote, show me where he says it hindered him?

“In the Premier League, I cannot play with the same amount of muscle as international football,” he said.

This quote basically replies on your earlier post that it didn't affect him against Brazil.

Then proceeded to say he's still training in the gym to cut off these muscles a little bit.

Lukaku is now on a different fitness regime. “[There is] more prevention in the gym and I am trying to do speed bursts in training and that’s the most essential,” he said.

 

[Litch]

This quote basically replies on your earlier post that it didn't affect him against Brazil.

Then proceeded to say he's still training in the gym to cut off these muscles a little bit.

You are a joker. Read the thing properly rather than 'cherry picking' quotes.
......" So now I think I am in a decent level again and ready to go again. I knew this. Me and the [United] medical staff, we did like a lot of tests to see what was the problem. I had a hamstring injury, which is something that never happens to me.”
Lukaku is now on a different fitness regime. “[There is] more prevention in the gym and I am trying to do speed bursts in training and that’s the most essential,” he said.

The bloody quote you are using is in relation to the hamstring injury hence him talking about (prevention) and 'speed bursts'.

That aside, Clearly it didn't affect him against Brazil cause he'd consciously put the muscle on for the WC and he was outstanding against them. What he then goes on to say that returning he knew he was to bulky for the riggers of the Prem.

If you are gonna use quotes, I suggest you read them properly.....

 

[el3mel]

You are a joker. Read the thing properly rather than 'cherry picking' quotes.
......" So now I think I am in a decent level again and ready to go again. I knew this. Me and the [United] medical staff, we did like a lot of tests to see what was the problem. I had a hamstring injury, which is something that never happens to me.”
Lukaku is now on a different fitness regime. “[There is] more prevention in the gym and I am trying to do speed bursts in training and that’s the most essential,” he said.

The bloody quote you are using is in relation to the hamstring injury hence him taking about (prevention) and 'speed bursts'.

That aside, Clearly it didn't affect him against Brazil cause he'd put the muscle on for the WC and he was outstanding against them. What he then goes on to say that returning he knew he was to bulky for the riggers of the Prem.

If you are gonna use quotes, I suggest you read them properly.....

The quotes I have posted are not related to that quote about the Hamstring injury. You're again arguing for the sake of it.

You just want to live in yor fantasy world and don't want to believe anything even the player himself, you're trying to dissect his quotes to suit you while ignoring the obvious ones.

Not sure what I'm supposed to do all honestly. I have done my job in bringing a video and quotes. It's noy my problem to convince you by force beyond bringing evidence on my point while you brought absolutely nothing to support your point. Not the first time to happen. I remember I brought a quote for a player for someone and he said the player is just saying that for the media and he's lying. Nothing really I can do.

I'm calling it off.

 

[Litch]

The quotes I have posted are way above that quote about the Hamstring injury. You're again arguing for the sake of it.

You just want to live in yor fantasy world and don't want to believe anything even the player himself, you're trying to dissect his quotes to suit you while ignoring the obvious ones.

Not sure what I'm supposed to do all honestly. I have done my job in bringing a video and quotes. It's noy my problem to convince you by force beyond bringing evidence on my point while you brought absolutely nothing to support your point.

I'm calling it off.

No it isn't, I've copied it directly from the quote. It talks about the hamstring injury and then goes on to say there is a change in his training regime around 'prevention'. Clearly you choose to call yourself el3mel as fool must have already been taken if you thought those quotes were made about his situation when they were given in Dec....,

 

[el3mel]

No it isn't, I've copied it directly from the quote. It talks about the hamstring injury and then goes on to say there is a change in his training regime around 'prevention'. Clearly you choose to call yourself el3mel as fool must have already been taken if you thought those quotes were made about his situation when they were given in Dec....,

You have done absolutely nothing in this argument except throwing personal digs and insults to the one you're talking about. I can take the same route it's not hard.

Can you explain to us you little genius why he had to cut off his weight and said that in his quotes when you claimed earlier it's rubbish to say these muscles are affecting him ? If these muscles weren't a burden for him like your genius posts were claiming why did he go and cut them off and dropped his weight and why did he wait till December to tell us he had cut his weight off a little bit ? Here is your earlier post to not claim otherwise :

So now your suggesting that Utd with there millions invested in players fitness and nutrition would have missed that? I can see it now, the fitness coach of this billion pound squad saying, how did I miss the fact that Rom was better when he was less bulky. Forget the science and the data and all that rubbish that I've gathered...absolute rubbish and didn't see it hindering him or him being any slower when he was terrorising Brazil last summer.

Surely he should have let these muscles as they're not affecting him anyway.

Now explain this contradiction that makes absolutely no sense except just goal post shifting because since the beginning of this lame discussion you have provided little to zero evidence on any of your points.

 

[Rozski]

Playing Mata and Lukaku in a front 3 is just suicidal. They emphasise each others weaknesses to the fullest extent possible.

In other words, why are you playing a guy who cant run with a guy who cant control the ball? How are they supposed to interact on the pitch?

I saw you make this point in another thread and think it’s spot on. Neither suit out playing style well and should probably be moved on in the summer but in the meantime playing them together in a front 3 is a terrible combo. Hopefully it’s one of the things Ole takes from the game as well.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

He wasn't even too bad today, but we simply don't play as fluid when he is on the pitch. Just a bad fit

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Back to the bench.

 

[edcunited1878]

If Martial was not injured, I still think Lukaku would have kept his place on the right side with Rashford more central/free role and Martial coming from the left hand side. He did okay tonight, but surely he has more to offer in terms of running in behind and moving in the box. Sanchez did more moving in the box and movement in general when he came on for 20 mins that Rom did from the start.

Rom was let down by Rashford after good hold up play and final ball to Rashers.

Lukaku was always limited with his technical ability, but this year, his physicality and movement have been a let down. His inability to create something out of nothing is a glaring weakness/lack of skill that he does not possess when compared to United strikers of past decades really. Hughes, Cantona, Yorke, Cole, RVN, Rooney, Berbatov, Tevez, Sheringham, Ole, RVP, Chicha...all these players could manufacture goals out of half chances or nothing, plus their technical ability was not as bad as Lukaku.

 

[hobbers]

I saw you make this point in another thread and think it’s spot on. Neither suit out playing style well and should probably be moved on in the summer but in the meantime playing them together in a front 3 is a terrible combo. Hopefully it’s one of the things Ole takes from the game as well.

Ha, made me so irate I ended posting it in 4 like different threads.

I don't understand how Ole can watch Lukaku have two decent-ish performances coming in from the right wing, playing with Lingard as a false 9. And then do this today.

He's presumably seen many, many matches that Mata has played in. And yet we still see Mata out on the right wing, where anyone with eyes and a brain should know he is always a total passenger. And we see Lukaku up front with his back to goal where, as we all know by now, he's useless. Playing two duds out of sympathy is bad enough, but playing two duds in their least ideal positions is next level stupid.

 

[Rozski]

He's presumably seen many, many matches that Mata has played in. And yet we still see Mata out on the right wing, where anyone with eyes and a brain should know he is always a total passenger. And we see Lukaku up front with his back to goal where, as we all know by now, he's useless. Playing two duds out of sympathy is bad enough, but playing two duds in their least ideal positions is next level stupid.

I’m definitely an Ole apologist so I’ll admit my bias but this seems a little harsh. I disagree that they were played out of sympathy, I’d say more lack of options. We need to rotate and we have a limited squad, neither of which Ole can help. Like it or not (and I think most of us don’t) they are probably the best players not in our starting eleven so it makes sense for them to be the first rotation options.

I think Mata on the right would have been ok today if we had a competent attacking RB to provide the width. I suppose you could argue that knowing Young isn’t meant Mata shouldn’t have been played there but there’s only so much to work with. Young had plenty of opportunity to provide balance in the right side of the pitch and just couldn’t deliver.

You could swap Mata and Lukaku and play Mata where Lingard has been but he’s such a different player that I think that lack of movement probably would have still been a problem.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Honestly we can do with a better RW than Lukaku. If we can't play him through the middle, we should look to sell him.

 

[lex talionis]

Squad man.

 

[Canagel]

I’m definitely an Ole apologist so I’ll admit my bias but this seems a little harsh. I disagree that they were played out of sympathy, I’d say more lack of options. We need to rotate and we have a limited squad, neither of which Ole can help. Like it or not (and I think most of us don’t) they are probably the best players not in our starting eleven so it makes sense for them to be the first rotation options.

I think Mata on the right would have been ok today if we had a competent attacking RB to provide the width. I suppose you could argue that knowing Young isn’t meant Mata shouldn’t have been played there but there’s only so much to work with. Young had plenty of opportunity to provide balance in the right side of the pitch and just couldn’t deliver.

You could swap Mata and Lukaku and play Mata where Lingard has been but he’s such a different player that I think that lack of movement probably would have still been a problem.

You could also say Young would've been OK if we had proper RW.

We'll never progress with square pegs in round holes .

 

[Sterling Archer]

That's got to be the end of him starting central for us, right?

 

[Sterling Archer]

He was moving far more with Everton because he was slim and lean. If you check his Everton goals and now you'll notice how his body has changed. With Everton he was lean, thus fast and aggressive. Now he has become a muscular bulk and all these muscles slowed him a lot and made him very static.

Lukaku of United is nothing like Lukaku of Everton, sadly enough.

I had posted this video here previously. Check his goals with Everton and compare his body to our current player. You won't help but feel it's a completely different player, for the worse unfortunately.

This is really upsetting. I'd compare it to swapping the athleticsm of LeBron James with the physique of Shaq.

 

[Gomes]

So Lukaku and Sanchez are still the ones that get blamed and ridiculed. Even after the game that Rashford and Pereira lost for United.

 

[Water Melon]

Rom is not suited for a fluid attacking play, nor he is a wide attacking player. I would prefer to have Rashford, Martial or Sanchez leading our attack. As a wide forward Lukaku did not impress much either. Let's see how the grown-ass man deals with this.

 

[Canagel]

So Lukaku and Sanchez are still the ones that get blamed and ridiculed. Even after the game that Rashford and Pereira lost for United.

Can people not talk about their limitations without blaming them for result?

 

[Patrick08]

Can people not talk about their limitations without blaming them for result?

Heavily depend on the service he gets and our service us poor. Pogba focusses on getting on end of things and be a superstar himself than create for others most of the time while all the others lack quality in service. Lukaku ain't something that will score a worldie ever to win us the game.

I don't get why we don't play 2 up top with a diamond in the middle when we play lukaku.

 

[11101]

Are you forgetting he started against Arsenal and got two stunning assists?

Out on the side, where he can receive the ball in space and face up to run against his man. He's clearly nowhere near up to playing through the middle for a top team right now. I don't know whether its his weight or what but his movement at the moment is barely even Championship level. You watch our midfielders carrying the ball and just waiting for him to make a move, but he never does and they have to play it wide. That's why we saw so many crosses yesterday.

Herrera, Martial and Lingard out of the starting XI has a lot to do, it's not just down to Lukaku. "It's like playing" with 10 men"...c'mon, mate...

When he refuses to offer for even the simplest passes, and when every ball played to him comes straight back, yes it is like playing with 10 men.

 

[Canagel]

Heavily depend on the service he gets and our service us poor. Pogba focusses on getting on end of things and be a superstar himself than create for others most of the time while all the others lack quality in service. Lukaku ain't something that will score a worldie ever to win us the game.

I don't get why we don't play 2 up top with a diamond in the middle when we play lukaku.

As has been pointed out already, it cannot be coincidence service is poor when Lukaku starts. Was the service issue with Rashford leading the line? I said the role he played against Arsenal was very spefic because there was acres of space to run into and there was time to get it out his feet facing the goal. In the middle he's too static and hindrance to our build up play. Infact Pogba showed better movement to attack some balls and he's midfielder. Lack of service excuse doesn't wash.

Hes poor fit for this team regardless of his own performance because his strengths don't match with our strengths.

 

[haram]

As has been pointed out already, it cannot be coincidence service is poor when Lukaku starts. Was the service issue with Rashford leading the line? I said the role he played against Arsenal was very spefic because there was acres of space to run into and there was time to get it out his feet facing the goal. In the middle he's too static and hindrance to our build up play.
Hes poor fit for this team regardless of his own performance because his strengths don't match with our strengths.

Yet the first assist against Arsenal was not from him being in a wide position. Again he holds the ball up in a central position, plays Rashford in and it’s Marcus that messed it up.

 

[Greck]

Heavily depend on the service he gets and our service us poor. Pogba focusses on getting on end of things and be a superstar himself than create for others most of the time while all the others lack quality in service. Lukaku ain't something that will score a worldie ever to win us the game.

I don't get why we don't play 2 up top with a diamond in the middle when we play lukaku.

You don't believe that. Pogba, Mata and Sanchez all prefer to create. A striker that can barely see service while sharing the pitch with this 3 needs to work harder

 

[11101]

Yet the first assist against Arsenal was not from him being in a wide position. Again he holds the ball up in a central position, plays Rashford in and it’s Marcus that messed it up.

Holds the ball up in a central position? He received it in a great position to run at the keeper and shoot. He didn't hold it up, he got it stuck under his feet.