This, 100% percent.
We're creating feck all at the moment. What the hell do people expect him to do? we could literally have Messi up front right now and he'd look useless.
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This, 100% percent.
We're creating feck all at the moment. What the hell do people expect him to do? we could literally have Messi up front right now and he'd look useless.
Lumping long balls to him won't work, he's not that kind of player. He was isolated in the last two games. He is not someone who will create chances for himself. If we play this way, I think it's better to just rest him instead. Give him good service and he is pretty much guaranteed to score. Hopefully we play better next match.
Don't think it's harsh really and doesn't have anything to do with today. Compare him to the strikers at the top clubs around currently. Will Bayern, Madrid, Barca, City, PSG, Juventus ever want him or want him to replace the strikers they have right now? No chance. Even you could say Kane is a much more complete player in his overall ability and being two footed. Like I said, Lukaku is fine as a striker for our hopes of winning the league, and he'll remain a consistent goalscorer as long as he's here because that's what he does. Could even score 40 goals a year, and it'll be great for us. But his lack of natural ability on the ball will always hold him back from getting up to a higher level as a striker which in turn will hold us back as a team from being up there with the best. For that, you need a more complete and talented striker.
Felt sorry for him second half, quite a few times he did well only to see that players weren't making runs into the box due to wanting to ride out the lead
Juve wouldn't be able to afford him. He's better than Higuain anyway.
PSG have Cavani who isn't really much better than Lukaku. Lukaku would look amazing in France too. Chelsea wanted him in the summer.
It's fair to say Barca, Bayern and Madrid wouldn't sign him. But they are able to get the very best.
Come on
Put Lewandowski up top for Lukaku and the last 2 games would have gone incredibly differently with the same tactics. Lukaku is a very good striker, I'm not saying otherwise. But his first touch lets him down loads and harms his hold up play a lot. It's not always about having chances laid on a plate for you. Sometimes you have to create something out of nothing on your own as a striker, or simply be able to hold on to the ball when you're isolated up top, hold off a few defenders, maybe go past players, play other players in, etc. Think RVP away to Madrid in 2013 with Fergie. We were under loads of pressure a lot of time in that game, but we were dangerous on the break because of his ability at holding the ball up, going past players, playing others in, and general ability. Lukaku can do it on occasion like anyone, but in general, he is far away from the very best strikers. Like I said in the other posts, it's not a huge criticism of him and we all knew his strengths and weaknesses when he signed. I'm pretty confident in him getting between 30-40 goals for us every season. But he is still a limited player.Lukaku has to do a lot to show he's better then higuain who has consistently scored around 30 goals for 4 years in a row now, not to mention being better on the ball. And it has nothing to do with money. But also not really the point. Sure if Lukaku went to Juve, he'd score goals as he would anywhere. But again, he wouldn't lift them up to that top level would he?
Barca/Bayern/Madrid wouldn't sign him as they are able to get the very best... isn't that what I'm saying? They are the top teams and if we want to get there, Lukaku isn't going to be the player to take us there. Not everyone can get there, but I'd like to think at Manchester United with the money we have, we should strive to get there. Basically if I'm thinking long term and in a hypothetical best case scenario where we are among Europe's elite a few years from now, on par with Barca/Madrid, I'd definitely think it's more likely we got there through Martial developing into a world class striker rather then Lukaku still being there. And I really like Lukaku and think he'll do well for us... It's just we'll always have that limit to how good we can be with him as the striker, because the striker really is the focal point of attacks.
Hasn't scored in 2 matches
Sack José, sell Lukaku.
Sack José, sell Lukaku.
Living off scraps for the last two matches.
@LoneStar is spot on, he's not cut out to be a hold-up striker winning balls to lay off, he needs to be fed chances, it's why I don't fancy partnering him Griezmann, he needs a creator behind him IMO. He did put in a couple of decent crosses.
His hold-up play has been poor lately.
He won't ever be truly top class IMO. He needs a lot of service and tbf, he barely got any the past 2 games.
He won't ever be truly top class IMO. He needs a lot of service and tbf, he barely got any the past 2 games.
He's not average. No one has said that.
It is one dimensional if it is either one or the other.
It doesn't help he's completely isolated upfront and the closest player to him, Mkhi, is so off form it isn't funny,
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Am I wrong though? Can't stress enough that I do like him and think we can win the title with him and that he'll consistently score goals, and I'd be he can get close to 40 goals this season for us. What I'm trying to say is that if we are hoping, let's say 4-5 years from now, to be up there as one of the very best teams and on par with the best, then I doubt we can get that with Lukaku. And for that, just compare him to the top strikers around. Pretty much he won't be a striker who will take us up to the top level like Lewandowski, Aguero, Suarez do, or RvP did for us when he first came.
He's 24 years old only. We don't know how he'll be coming 28 or 29. He'll definitely be even better if he's banging goals like this now.
If you want an accurate comparisons compare him with these stickers when they were at this age.
Don't mean to be too harsh on him but I do find it frustrating when he cant hold the ball up on the odd occassion, I guess we've been spoiled through the years.
Overhit crosses from Herrera and Valencia, or ones that don't even get past the first man with Mkhitaryan. Heck, even Mata's passing was off today.
We haven't been creative enough at all. Nothing to complain about when he has no support.
Lewandowski in 2011/12 (year younger) scored 30 goals and in 12/13 (lukaku age now) scored 36 goals for dortmund along with that 4 goal performance vs Real Madrid that made everyone see him as one of the best in the world becuase of his all round ability. Basically he took dortmund up a few levels and was the main reason probably that they made the champions league final.
Van persie was always a crock but incredibly talented and a terrific player when fit.
Anyway, most werent as good goalscorers as lukaku. And i keep saying of course he'll score consisently. But in terms of his all round play, he'll always be a few levels below them. Im not talking about goal count at all. Im talking about a striker being able to be the difference maker and take a team up a level single handedly. Truly world class strikers. Lukaku isnt that and wont ever be that, because he just doesnt have that talent, and that talent isnt something that comes out of nowhere.
Is it spoiled or just whats expected at United? Yes we've had world class strikers over the years with Fergie, but Fergie knew it was needed to be one of the best.
Well Lukaku at similar age to Lewa too scored 25 goals in EPL with a midtable Everton team so you see the comparison isn't really far way numbers wise. RVP best ever form was in his last season with Arsenal and first season with us IMO. That was the time he was considered the best in EPL and one of the best in the world.
Goals is the most Important thing for strikers. The rest is to be discussed, but you can't say a striker who bangs 25 goals per season isn't a top striker because he's not flashy with the ball. You can't also claim he'll never be a top class because we don't know the future.
I don't really enjoy watching him play. He's always been a player who I don't 'rate', but can't argue with his record.
If I'm being honest, I would much rather the striker I think Rashford can become in a few years playing up front for us when the time comes.
Rashford is already a far better footballer, at least at most things, just that Lukaku is physically more developed and still a more clinical finisher at this stage.
If I'm being honest, I would much rather the striker I think Rashford can become in a few years playing up front for us when the time comes.
Rashford is already a far better footballer, at least at most things, just that Lukaku is physically more developed and still a more clinical finisher at this stage.
I know, but we knew what we were getting when we bought him in the summer, it's hard to moan about these issues when we all knew beforehand, if you get what I mean.
He has his strengths however and we're currently not playing to them, makes limitations of any player stand out more, IMO.
Before Lewandowski, Bayern had Pizarro up top? And Olic, right? Don't tell me Lukaku could never play for them.
I see the point though, Ive always said Lukaku can win you the league but I'm not sure about the champions league.
However, he is 24. He's made massive improvements over his career, and all the talk from people around him (Henry, Martinez, Koeman) talk of a focussed, determined young man who wants to be the best he can possibly be. With that in mind, and his talent on show, I wouldn't put anything past Lukaku.
I see the point though, Ive always said Lukaku can win you the league but I'm not sure about the champions league.
However, he is 24. He's made massive improvements over his career, and all the talk from people around him (Henry, Martinez, Koeman) talk of a focussed, determined young man who wants to be the best he can possibly be. With that in mind, and his talent on show, I wouldn't put anything past Lukaku.
Rashford is a (far??) better footballer then Lukaku? The only advantage Lukaku has over Rashford is muscles and he can finish, when the fact he isn't clinical seems to be a brush to beat him with anyway.
I rate Rashford highly, but boy is he overrated here at times.
Im not talking about his numbers though. Of course he'll be very productive over a season. But hes not a player who will elevate us to the top level. To barca, bayern, madrid levels. Thats what United wants to get back to right? Players like pogba, martial, de gea, bailly and rashford are those who we have huge hopes for and if they arent already there, we think will get to that level of being able to rival any others in their position. Lukaku? Never going to be the most talented striker around or on par all around ability wise with the best strikers. Might match them in productivity but thats not all it takes to be a world class player.
An argument could very well be made that we spent 75m on a striker who wont ever be good enough for the very best teams which is what we hope to be. He's 24 right now and I have no doubt he'll hammer in goals for us consistently and I'm sure we'll win a few league titles in that time. Will we ever reach bayern/barca/madrid levels (or basically be seen as one of the favourites for the champions league and one of the elite like we were at times under Fergie) with lukaku as a striker? Not in my opinion. He's a good striker who will be enough to help us to the league title but not elevate us to higher, if we want to do that? Then we'll need a player with better all around ability.
Yep thats what Im saying. Im not complaining too much about him, i like him and im sure he'll score loads. But it is an inescapable fact that we paid 75m for a player who limits how good we can be because of his own limitations as a player. Can help us to reach a certain level but limits us from reching the highest level if you get what I mean.
I guess we werent going to get to the top in one go, and it does take a while to rebuild, but lukaku is far from being talented enough to be seen as someone who would be the final piece in the puzzle. Thats someone who is lewandowski level, rvp at his best, suarez, aguero, etc.
Yeah, when the rest of the team is so poor in the buildup, losing the ball, not releasing quick enough, not moving, running into players and turning around or getting dispossessed, a proper striker is going to struggle.
It's no surprise that he looks good when our play is quicker and we take advantage of pulling the defence around a bit.
It's on others that he's not scored for two games.
It's no surprise that he looks good when our play is quicker and we take advantage of pulling the defence around a bit.
It's on others that he's not scored for two games.
If he keeps getting goals consistently I don't know how he won't be the striker that will elevate us higher, though. What else is he supposed to do ? Being flashy with the ball and doing all the tricks is a nice bonus to have but they're bonus. Goals are the most important thing and the reason you pay for a striker. All the top elite clubs paid for their strikers because of their goal scoring record, not because of their all around play. I don't even think his all around play is that terrible, though. I have seen this season the minimum I'll expect from a lone number 9 position being involved in the game.
The guy is still young and claiming he's not a player we're looking for as a future prospective is strange IMO. Him reaching current form before joining a big club is an outstanding thing on its own and he'll improve further in a big club with the right atmosphere around him. When he's 28 or 29 years we don't know what the elite strikers at this time will be and what the strikers the elite clubs will have will be superior for him. The kinds of Aguero, Lewa, Suarez.. Etc had their time to evolve and become complete strikers and are now over 30 years old. Lukaku is still improving and learning.
When he reaches their level of experience and age we may complain that he's not a top striker, but currently he's definitely a top 10 for me.
Can anyone say that Diego Milito was at the level of these players. And of the players you listed only one has actually won the Champions League.
Benzema was completely average as a striker last season; but he got the best about Ronaldo which made the TEAM better.
Lukaku is good enough to win the Champions League, because not every player needs to be the best in his position so long as the TEAM is playing at the highest level.
It is generally the tactical battle that decides games in the latter stages of the CL.
Yeah we can win the champions league but it would be like a Inter type season. More an upset rather then by being the best team. Milito was more or less a 1 season wonder too so not sure what you mean by that example.
Benzema is a poor comparison. He's very much a striker who is where he is because of his all around play and not his end product. He links up really well with Ronaldo as you say. Lukaku isn't that type - he's the type who is supposed to be the main man, you aren't going to play lukaku to link up with other people, you play him to get the goals. And that's why he's not a striker who will be the final piece of a puzzle to take us to the "elite levels".
Seriously if Lukaku was at any other club, nobody would be arguing this. I'm amazed so many are right now. Do people seriously think Lukaku has it in him to be seen on the same level as the likes of Lewandowski/Suarez are right now as overall players? In a one of final, when judging everyone on top form, the type of team you build for. Lukaku won't ever get close to that, and it's fine - to an extent. We just should temper expectations with how good we can be as long as our main striker is a limited player like him. We knew what we were getting when we signed him, and I'm ok with it, because with him I do think we'll be challenging for the premier league as he can be flat track bully type to rack up goals against smaller teams. But I fully expect him to be pretty invisible most of the time in big games where it's tight and it requires a higher level of technical ability just to get into the game and make an impact. He might have a moment or two where he gets in a chance and we'll need him to put them away, but aside from that, can't see him doing much in them.
I dunno though, maybe it's just me. He's fine for now, but I do think in 4 years or so, Martial/Rashford will be better strikers then Lukaku is, simply because they are far more talented then he is. Might not get as many goals as Lukaku does, but goals isn't all it takes. Mario Gomez scored around 40 goals two seasons in a row for Bayern. I never really rated him outside of his finishing. Lukaku is more in that mold. He's a tank physically and a good finisher, but he isn't talented on the ball.
There are only two things that worry me about Lukaku at the moment:
1. His hold up play has not really been good enough for an elite level team
2. Jose is simply not setting up the team to get the best out of him
The first is his fault, the second isn't. His qualities are there for everyone to see, pretty sure he's scored more goals by this point of the season than any United player in the modern era. But we could get so much more out of him if we'd just give him more support and chances. He's so isolated and has so few chances in the past 2 matches, you can't blame him at all.
1. His hold up play has not really been good enough for an elite level team
2. Jose is simply not setting up the team to get the best out of him
The first is his fault, the second isn't. His qualities are there for everyone to see, pretty sure he's scored more goals by this point of the season than any United player in the modern era. But we could get so much more out of him if we'd just give him more support and chances. He's so isolated and has so few chances in the past 2 matches, you can't blame him at all.
I dont know how you got that impression, because i clearly implied that Lukaku is NOT at the level of the best strikers in the world. My point was that there is no team ever that has the best player in every position in the world.
'Type of team you build for' is a useless concept because no manager works like that, they look for qualities in the player within the context of their role they dont concern themselves with whether or not they are the best in their position. Different players are good for different systems can be another way of saying that. For example, Aguero is a better all round player than Lukaku but he would never be utilized as a striker under Mourinho because he does not have the right qualities for the role the manager wants.
Whether you rate Gomez or not is irrelevant, what is relevant is that Gomez was a key figure in Bayern winning the Treble because he was important to the team. No one thinks of Gomez as a mercurial player, they think of him as a pure goalscorer.
There are so many strikers in the past that have been good enough to win the big titles that were not all round good players because they performed a function very well as part of a unit.
Not if it is both as he is good at counter attacking and good at converting crosses. Two different things.
Going to go against the grain here and say that he impressed me last night. I didn't know he could cross and dribble like he did yesterday. Will agree on his hold up play being poor but he can and will improve that over time.
Thought he was better yesterday than against Liverpool (which isn't saying much) but think he's been suffering from a knock is trying to play his way through it. I think once Zlatan is back Lukaku will get rested and genuinely think he'll get a second wind for second half of the season.
He has shown limitations at the moment, but he's growing as a player all the time. Should stay patient with him IMO especially considering how awful the rest of the side is playing and how negatively the team is set up. He's not free from blame, but quite a few things going against him at the moment injury wise, tactically and team-mate wise.. get Pogba/Martial around him, get him fit and he will hopefully get out of the current rut.
He has shown limitations at the moment, but he's growing as a player all the time. Should stay patient with him IMO especially considering how awful the rest of the side is playing and how negatively the team is set up. He's not free from blame, but quite a few things going against him at the moment injury wise, tactically and team-mate wise.. get Pogba/Martial around him, get him fit and he will hopefully get out of the current rut.
He needs service. If you don't give him the ball in dangerous areas he won't be effective.
No surprise that when our attack was in form he scored loads, since their form has died off, so has Rom's goals.
I do find the Martial/Lukaku axis is the best though, they seem to be on the same wavelength.
No surprise that when our attack was in form he scored loads, since their form has died off, so has Rom's goals.
I do find the Martial/Lukaku axis is the best though, they seem to be on the same wavelength.
He has to use his brains and leave the attacking line from time to time to come into the game.
Hehas been waiting for the long ball for at least 85 minutes.
Hehas been waiting for the long ball for at least 85 minutes.
I don't think he should leave the attacking line. He should cover lots of ground, work his backside off, but remain stationed in the final third where he's dangerous. It's up to the others to find a pathway forward that is serviceable.
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