They've been surprisingly solid and it's well known that Jose doesn't like to mess with what's working defensively, so I guess we'll see more of them. I'd personally stick with them while they're performing well too. But at this rate it won't be long until Rojo is actually sent off/banned for one of his awful tackles and we'll be forced to give Bailly his place back, which I don't think it a bad thing either.
Rojo & Jones Must Continue as First Choice
- Thread starter RedRoach
- Start date
Never thought I'd be saying this but we should definitely continue with those two it would be a travesty to drop them.
Right now they certainly deserve to start. Partly because they look so good together, but also because, when a player does play well, it seems unfair if they get dropped. They've earned their starts.
However Rojo has never played this well before and Jones' injury problems are well documented, so I think we just need to enjoy this good moment while it lasts and worry about whether they're our long term solution further down the line.
However Rojo has never played this well before and Jones' injury problems are well documented, so I think we just need to enjoy this good moment while it lasts and worry about whether they're our long term solution further down the line.
Good partnership, but this thread wouldn't even exist if not for two instances of weak refereeing in not sending Rojo off.
I'd be against that simply because it's easier to add one defender at a time without affecting stability.. but 2 new ones?
But having a proper partnership who understand each other would override that surely?
Imagine Chelsea were in the CL and they had 3 reserves that played just as well as the starters. They played midweek and the first teamers played weekends. The first choice would be playing the exact amount of minutes they are playing now. Would Chelsea be worse off in the league?
Absolutely, he has a history and if he gets injured then it is great we can fall back to Bailly or Smalling, but right now, today, it shouldn't even be a consideration that he should lose his place in the team to accommodate others. Rotation will need to done anyway over the Xmas period, so the others will get games. Jones however has been immense for me and deserves to maintain his place and his run in the side. If he is able to get over his injuries there is no doubt the boy has the talent IMO.
It's not a proper partnership if it's changed game by game.
You keep a settled side together;it's the tenent of a successful team. If you have a potentially easy match, and personally I don't see one until Reading, then by all means rotate the CB.
But this isn't rugby with a midweek side and a weekend side. Ridiculous notion that would see us lose more
Of course it's a partnership if Rojo only played with Jones for a large portion of the season but I understand your point.
This. Jones and Rojo have a chemistry and understanding. They are immense in the air, far better than when we had Blind and Smalling back there and we no longer look vulnerable to set pieces and long balls, something that is critical in the Premier League (ask Pep).
By all means rotate players in over the busy period or when an injury necessitates a change, but this partnership needs to continue as first choice IMO.
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It will take a top form Bailly to replace any of the two at current form. If Jones can stay fit and Rojo keeps his level of playing, it will be very difficult for any other players to come in, which is brilliant. Every player needs to be in absolute top form to get minutes and that will improve the whole team automatically
Put this thread on the caf at the beginning of the season and everyone has a laugh. Rojo will be seeing red sooner rather than later with his ridiculous two footed challenges. Not a fan of Rojo. Would rather it be Bailly and maybe Jones when everyone is healthy.
I personally think out of the pair Rojo has looked far better than Jones aside from those couple of silly challenges
It's funny how others are finally coming round to my way of thinking - in the past most on here seemed to think that Smalling was one of the best CBs in the league, now they want Rojo to play ahead of him! I always said Smalling seems like a lower league defender having the game of his life in the cup against a premier league side, if that makes sense.
Rojo is way taller than Jones and I'm not sure Jones is either stronger or quicker.
What about Bailly? Should he be put on the bench? Or as a RB?
Jones and Rojo have done brilliantly in the absence of Bailly and Smalling. When a CB partnership is working, you just don't break it. The team looks settled and Mourinho has picked his favorites.
Good thing about these two players is that at the start of the season they were completely overlooked but they stayed out of the limelight, not running off to the press and moaning. Smalling and Blind have fallen down the pecking order but there seems to be more to it than playing ability.
This whole Smalling bashing on multiple threads needs to stop though. He's a fantastic CB who would start for almost any team in the league. He's our most senior defender but he'll need to fight for his place and that is simply a trademark of a world class team.
Good thing about these two players is that at the start of the season they were completely overlooked but they stayed out of the limelight, not running off to the press and moaning. Smalling and Blind have fallen down the pecking order but there seems to be more to it than playing ability.
This whole Smalling bashing on multiple threads needs to stop though. He's a fantastic CB who would start for almost any team in the league. He's our most senior defender but he'll need to fight for his place and that is simply a trademark of a world class team.
By far from the biggest fan of Jones or Rojo individually but definitely agree. Don't fix something that isn't broken, they've been very good.
I would prefer Bailly-Jones as first choice pairing. Bailly won't be around for a month or though but so we can stick with Jones-Rojo pairing for now. From Feb we will be back in Europe and will need 4 CBs to rotate.
To my mind, Bailly is our best CB and should be first choice going forward.
It's very tricky to pick a first-choice partner for him. I'm not so sure it will be Jones, Rojo or Smalling. As much as Rojo and Jones have done well, I feel the jury's still out.
It's very tricky to pick a first-choice partner for him. I'm not so sure it will be Jones, Rojo or Smalling. As much as Rojo and Jones have done well, I feel the jury's still out.
Oh ok.
Bailly and Smalling should not walk right into the lineup. It's tough for both of them but Rojo and Jones have earned more playing time, it would be unfair to put them on the bench after playing this well. Squad rotation and (dare I say it) injuries can come into play anyway.
The main thing I'm glad about is that Blind isn't part of this discussion anymore. I think he's a valuable player to have but the CB charade with him needs to end.
The main thing I'm glad about is that Blind isn't part of this discussion anymore. I think he's a valuable player to have but the CB charade with him needs to end.
Keep the partnership together for as long as they're in this type of form. I would rotate Jones out for either Middlesbrough home or West Ham away given the quick succession in which those fixtures come. With his injury history I don't like the thought of him playing 90 minutes twice in 3 days.
I don't agree with the Smalling sucks narrative. He is a good player and has shown he is a good defender. He has weaknesses in his passing game and for someone so tall does not dominate in the air as much as you would expect, but he is a good player.
Having said that the discussion here is about the partnership between Rojo and Jones which is working great right now, and regardless whether Smalling is a good player or we shouldn't be breaking this partnership up whilst it is working and whilst we look so dominant at the back.
Smalling is a fantastic CB in fact there were various stretches over the past couple of years where you would've been hard pressed to find a better defender in the league, even during our darkest hours under Moyes and LvG. During much of that time, it was ironically Jones and Rojo who were considered not good enough, surplus to requirements, frustrating, injury prone, and likely to get shown the door during the next window. The reality is we need 4 good defenders and we have them, and there's no need to throw any of them under the bus because they don't' happen to be playing at the moment.
Yes I agree with this. He's a good player to have in the squad - almost a utility type player. But DM is where I'd use him. Certainly not a CB. I'd like to think Bailly will be first choice CB again as I think he's the best we have. But it will be difficult to drop Rojo or Jones at the moment. Unfortunately, I feel justification will come in time.
Rojo and Jones are fecking immense together. If we can (please god) keep them relatively injury free, then we''ll get top four imo. Along with Carrick, Valencia, Pogba and Ibra, these are the players who will define our season. Mkhitaryan could be the icing on top, if he returns in the same form.
We've 100% gelled now, and Jose knows his best XI. That's something van Gaal never really managed. With Jose's exemplary record of keeping players fit, I'm optimistic that we'll get top four and go deep in the cups (I think we'll win two -- LC, and EL).
We've 100% gelled now, and Jose knows his best XI. That's something van Gaal never really managed. With Jose's exemplary record of keeping players fit, I'm optimistic that we'll get top four and go deep in the cups (I think we'll win two -- LC, and EL).
Bailly is class. Give jones the place for form, rojo is just a tackle away from leaving the match 10vs11 so he makes way.
Totally agree. Ro-Jones is too anglicized.
Agree with most on this thread. Rojones has become a very good partnership. If Jose wanted to break it up, I think he would've gone with Jones at RB instead of Bailly vs Crystal Palace.
I think Jose will stick with them until we start conceding or lose a game and then they will straight back on the bench with Smalling and or Bailly coming in.
Just stick with them for now. Bailly will be off to AFCON in few weeks and Smalling is yet to recover his fitness and his form.
Bailly and Jones are our 2 best center backs without a doubt, though for the time being, rojo and jones makes sense because of continuity. Bailly will go to afcon so no point in disrupting this for a few games. When he is back, then he'll be starting again. Smalling will need to wait for injuries or a loss of form basically to get in, but thats what happens when you lose your place.
I still think Smalling is the best CB on the team, but no arguments with continuing with the Jones/Rojo pairing at this point; clearly they have earned through performances the right to continue. The problem with CB now isn't the talent, it's there, it's staying healthy and playing up to the talent level consistently. Can Rojo play at this level for long period of time? Can Jones and Smalling actually stay fit? Will Bailly continue to develop?
They have not really been tested against top opposition yet. I am still not comfortable watching Rojo. He goes into tackles without thinking about the consequences. He is a red card waiting to happen.
They played against Arsenal, Everton and Tottenham. Aren't they considered top opposition as well?
The promising thing with Jones this time round that may give him a better chance of staying fit is that he's using his head instead of 'using his head'...
It is quite interesting that caftards laughed at LVG when he talked about having a balance of Left footed and Right footed players as CBs. This season I would argue we have looked most comfortable when playing Blind or Rojo at LCB. When Smalling came in on the left, so Bailly could play on the right, he maybe a better player than either of Blind or Rojo, but he wasn't as comfortable playing on the left. That does not mean that Blind and Rojo do not have faults or weaknesses, but we weren't too bad at the start of the season with Blind at LCB either. Blind did get beat for pace and by physical forwards, so probably we need another in that space. I am sure people will raise exceptions, but it is always better imo to have left footed players on the left.
We could rotate Bailly, Smalling and Jones at RCB. Each has their own style, competencies and skill. Wonder if Jones really is mended or playing through the pain barrier. If we had a LCB which had the same attributes as those 3 we would have quite a formidable defense.
Rojo must be 6'1 and Jones might be pushing 6', hardly way taller. Jones is pretty quick and powerful and I think in a physical contest he would get the better of Rojo though both tend to be rash, Rojo especially.
Never been a fan of either of them, but they are playing very good, so I see no reason to not continue this partnership while it works.
I disagree, and here's why:
1. They haven't really been tested properly against strong opponents.
2. Their partnership has coincided with Carrick becoming a regular again. This makes a huge difference for the defense, as their job becomes much easier.
3. Bailly has hardly put a foot wrong and Valencia has arguably been our best player. They both need to start when they are fit and available.
4. Smalling was our best defender(and one of our best outfield players overall) during the entire Van Gaal era. You can't erase all that history because of one shitty game against Chelsea.
5. Jones and Rojo's "dominance" has come during a time when the team is finally starting to click. Our biggest issue up until this point has been scoring. Apart from the Chelsea game, we've actually been pretty decent defensively, regardless of who's played in central defense.
6. Most importantly: Jones and Rojo haven't been that great. It's a miracle that Rojo hasn't been sent off or suspended yet. His tackling is ridiculously bad. As for Jones, I nearly shit myself whenever there's a one-on-one. The opponent either seems to get past him, or at the very least he will manage to get a decent cross/hard pass into the box. To top it off, DDG have made some crucial top class saves to save our asses several times.
TLDR;
A match-fit Smalling and Bailly with Carrick protecting them, primarily against midtable/lower table teams, with the team clicking, would done the job just as well, if not better. These two are also better players on paper, with a better track-record(Bailly's record is still fresh, but he's hardly put a foot wrong and is clearly class). I say throw them into the starting XI at the first possible chance!
1. They haven't really been tested properly against strong opponents.
2. Their partnership has coincided with Carrick becoming a regular again. This makes a huge difference for the defense, as their job becomes much easier.
3. Bailly has hardly put a foot wrong and Valencia has arguably been our best player. They both need to start when they are fit and available.
4. Smalling was our best defender(and one of our best outfield players overall) during the entire Van Gaal era. You can't erase all that history because of one shitty game against Chelsea.
5. Jones and Rojo's "dominance" has come during a time when the team is finally starting to click. Our biggest issue up until this point has been scoring. Apart from the Chelsea game, we've actually been pretty decent defensively, regardless of who's played in central defense.
6. Most importantly: Jones and Rojo haven't been that great. It's a miracle that Rojo hasn't been sent off or suspended yet. His tackling is ridiculously bad. As for Jones, I nearly shit myself whenever there's a one-on-one. The opponent either seems to get past him, or at the very least he will manage to get a decent cross/hard pass into the box. To top it off, DDG have made some crucial top class saves to save our asses several times.
TLDR;
A match-fit Smalling and Bailly with Carrick protecting them, primarily against midtable/lower table teams, with the team clicking, would done the job just as well, if not better. These two are also better players on paper, with a better track-record(Bailly's record is still fresh, but he's hardly put a foot wrong and is clearly class). I say throw them into the starting XI at the first possible chance!