Roger Federer

Buchan said:
It appears the lessons learned from the Lance Armstrong years - and how easily the 'I'm tested so I'm obviously not a cheat' defence is obliterated - have been forgotten in tennis circles.
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:lol:

The stats show Federer runs half as much as the other big players. It's clear why he is still fit. He is economical and doesn't run himself into the ground.

I'll eat my hat if he tests positive, but Novak's "magical" transformation is what people should be more suspicious about, if anything.

Btw - do you think football is clean, with Fuentes' blood bags destroyed?
 
Love to see old threads like this when players of any sport are just breaking through. I remember reading a thread on some football manager forum about this player called Lionel Andrés Messi being quite a promising player.
 
Buchan said:
It appears the lessons learned from the Lance Armstrong years - and how easily the 'I'm tested so I'm obviously not a cheat' defence is obliterated - have been forgotten in tennis circles.
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Horrible blog. The mere attempt at discrediting Federer smacks of "look at me, aren't I alternative".
 
NM said:
:lol:

The stats show Federer runs half as much as the other big players. It's clear why he is still fit. He is economical and doesn't run himself into the ground.

I'll eat my hat if he tests positive, but Novak's "magical" transformation is what people should be more suspicious about, if anything.

Btw - do you think football is clean, with Fuentes' blood bags destroyed?
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Also, the salt in that article about Nadal being treated unfairly is fecking stupid. Yes, guilt by association shouldnt be a thing, but the Fuentes case at the time and the fact that Nadal was one of his clients invited those doubts. Why should we doubt Federer using the same logic if he has no connection of that sort?
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Also, the salt in that article about Nadal being treated unfairly is fecking stupid. Yes, guilt by association shouldnt be a thing, but the Fuentes case at the time and the fact that Nadal was one of his clients invited those doubts. Why should we doubt Federer using the same logic if he has no connection of that sort?
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Nadal was a Fuentes client?!
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Nadal was a Fuentes client?!
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Fuentes himself confirmed he worked with footballers and tennis players. None has been named but it was widely assumed Nadal and the Barcelona players were involved at some points.

Again, it's tenuous at best and shouldnt be used against him, but that's how the allegations started.
 
Jesus fecking Christ.

Create a thread if you wanna accuse or talk about players if they on drugs.

Federer isn't on drugs. His main threat for grand slams was Djokovic and he's not playing well, Federer is back winning them.

I suppose Cleijsters was faking pregnancy and was on drugs when she came back winning. That's what Serena is probably doing too.

These conspiracy theories are just fecking nonsense. Why can't people accept we witnessing three of the greatest players that ever lived? Rather than accusing one of them on drugs when they doing well.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Fuentes himself confirmed he worked with footballers and tennis players. None has been named but it was widely assumed Nadal and the Barcelona players were involved at some points.

Again, it's tenuous at best and shouldnt be used against him, but that's how the allegations started.
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There was also Moya, Ferrer and Ferrero from that era too I think?

I have always thought Nadal was a doper though.

Bojan11 said:
Jesus fecking Christ.

Create a thread if you wanna accuse or talk about players if they on drugs.

Federer isn't on drugs. His main threat for grand slams was Djokovic and he's not playing well, Federer is back winning them.

I suppose Cleijsters was faking pregnancy and was on drugs when she came back winning. That's what Serena is probably doing too.

These conspiracy theories are just fecking nonsense. Why can't people accept we witnessing three of the greatest players that ever lived? Rather than accusing one of them on drugs when they doing well.
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Serena has one of the worst excuses ever heard for missing a dope test, she claimed she thought the testers were burglars so locked herself in her panic room!
 
If Nadal is doping, they all are. His fitness isn't better than either Djokovic, Murray or Federer's (and Fed is older). He doesn't hit the ball harder than any of them do too (see his serve). The top spin he gets on his forehand is what separates him from the rest.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
There was also Moya, Ferrer and Ferrero from that era too I think?

I have always thought Nadal was a doper though.



Serena has one of the worst excuses ever heard for missing a dope test, she claimed she thought the testers were burglars so locked herself in her panic room!
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I probably shouldnt use the word 'fact' in my original post about Nadal-Fuentes relation but that was how it came to be. Iirc Nadal admitted to using PRP, a blood cell transfusion that was briefly banned in 2010 but made legal again afterwards in his rehabilitation from knee injury. That was about as far as it goes regarding him and allegations of PEDs.
 
Skills said:
If Nadal is doping, they all are. His fitness isn't better than either Djokovic, Murray or Federer's (and Fed is older). He doesn't hit the ball harder than any of them do too (see his serve). The top spin he gets on his forehand is what separates him from the rest.
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And his defense is amongst the best.
 
RDCR07 said:
And his defense is amongst the best.
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Djokovic has a better defence.

Nadals defence isn't as good as it was when he won Wimbledon in 2008. Hence why he has struggled for the last 6 years or so at Wimbledon. His topspin forehand was the difference, but Djokovic got on top of that for a few years.
 
Buchan said:
I'm not here casting suspicions solely on Federer; for my money, all of the elite tennis fraternity have question marks hanging over them.
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Nobody has questions hanging over them. You're just inventing scurrilous drama to draw attention to yourself.
 
Raoul said:
Nobody has questions hanging over them. You're just inventing scurrilous drama to draw attention to yourself.
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I didn't 'invent' the Federer rumours, nor rumours about tennis players in general. The sport is ripe for drug cheating. Fuentes and other contemporary evidence is proof of that.
 
Buchan said:
I didn't 'invent' the Federer rumours, nor rumours about tennis players in general. The sport is ripe for drug cheating. Fuentes and other contemporary evidence is proof of that.
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There's no evidence. If there was it would be all over the media not on fringe blogs.
 
Raoul said:
There's no evidence. If there was it would be all over the media not on fringe blogs.
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Sporting megastars, especially the ones who cheat, grotesquely, are well protected. You know that. Look at how long it took to eventually take down Armstrong - he won lawsuit after lawsuit against anyone who dared print the accusations. Whistleblowers, former colleagues he bizarrely cut adrift, were his downfall in the end, and it's been proven that the UCI were complicit in covering up his positive tests in previous years. These superstars are protected and far too valuable to their respective sports to bring down.

Tennis, along with cycling, are the archetype drug abuse sports. They are absolutely primed for it. Why is it such a leap to even contemplate this?
 
Buchan said:
Tennis, along with cycling, are the archetype drug abuse sports.
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I'd name a number of other sports as "archetype drug abuse sport" before tennis. Pretty much all track & field and endurance sports, for instance, as well as figthing sports. Strange to think that when you hear doping, tennis seems to spring to your mind the same time as cycling, which is indeed primed for doping.
Also, Armstrong shut down accusations with lawsuits while no accusations have been levied against Federer from any side for as long as I can remember.
 
By the way, happy to take the discussion elsewhere rather than derail the thread.

For what it's worth, I really enjoy watching Federer play. Definitely my favourite tennis player. However, I just think it's preposterous to simply accept what he's doing, at his age and after a five-year hiatus from winning Slams, and dismiss any probing questions into why this is possible for him.
 
Buchan said:
The drug-testing system in tennis is notoriously lax. That, in itself, is enough to raise some eyebrows.
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There are no eyebrows to be raised. Unless you have tangible proof, you have nothing. Introducing speculation about people juicing when you know feck all about them is completely out of order.
 
Buchan said:
The drug-testing system in tennis is notoriously lax. That, in itself, is enough to raise some eyebrows.
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Well, that's a very different thing. It's like saying Darts is primed for doping because the testing system is lax.
Last statement from me before we can get back to topic: I'm sure doping is as rife within tennis as withing any other well paying sport, but to me there is no indication that Federer is on the juice. I assume proper doping is mostly done by players struggling to make a name for themselves and earn a proper living after reaching their ability threshold. Since I have no proof of other players possibly doping I won't even mention any names.
His playstyle helps him stay dominant despite clearly having lost a step compared to ten years ago. He played few matches, spent less time on court in those than others have and quite frankly, the generation below him (apart from Djokovic, Murray and Nadal) can't hold a candle to him abilitywise.
He beat almost all those players regularly while carrying injuries in the last few seasons just to be denied by Djokovic (mostly), yet when he beats them now - him being well rested motivated and healthy - it's supposed to be because of doping?
 
Buchan said:
By the way, happy to take the discussion elsewhere rather than derail the thread.

For what it's worth, I really enjoy watching Federer play. Definitely my favourite tennis player. However, I just think it's preposterous to simply accept what he's doing, at his age and after a five-year hiatus from winning Slams, and dismiss any probing questions into why this is possible for him.
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He was injured and far from optimal form in 2013 and 2016. In 2014/2015 he could've easily won couple of slams. Don't see how surprising is that he finally managed to win 2 after he lost 3 finals in 2014 and 2015.

I've never seen anyone accusing Federer of doping and the way his game developed nothing would suggest he's doing something illegal. The only time I've heard accusations of doping was in relevance to Nadal and Fuentes, the 2010 USO where Nadal was serving at a level he never did before and neither done afterwards and the AO final against Djokovic(for both of them).
 
Piratesoup said:
Well, that's a very different thing. It's like saying Darts is primed for doping because the testing system is lax.
Last statement from me before we can get back to topic: I'm sure doping is as rife within tennis as withing any other well paying sport, but to me there is no indication that Federer is on the juice. I assume proper doping is mostly done by players struggling to make a name for themselves and earn a proper living after reaching their ability threshold. Since I have no proof of other players possibly doping I won't even mention any names.
His playstyle helps him stay dominant despite clearly having lost a step compared to ten years ago. He played few matches, spent less time on court in those than others have and quite frankly, the generation below him (apart from Djokovic, Murray and Nadal) can't hold a candle to him abilitywise.
He beat almost all those players regularly while carrying injuries in the last few seasons just to be denied by Djokovic (mostly), yet when he beats them now - him being well rested motivated and healthy - it's supposed to be because of doping?
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:lol:
 
I think perhaps people are unlikely to want to question him because of that divine style he has and no one wants to see their god's fall. But also because there doesn't seem to be any credible evidence to lay at his door just now. And a conspiratantrum truther on twitter doesn't count.
 
Buchan said:
It appears the lessons learned from the Lance Armstrong years - and how easily the 'I'm tested so I'm obviously not a cheat' defence is obliterated - have been forgotten in tennis circles.
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Except for the fact that he seems to be saying just the opposite of that in the quotes posted above: "I feel I'm being less tested now than six, seven, eight years ago...I don't know the reasons we are being tested less and I agree with Andy, we don't do a lot of blood testing during the year. I'm OK having more of that...I just think it's important to have enough tests out there...I don't like it when I'm only getting tested whatever number it is, which I don't think is enough or sufficient during the year...I think we should up it a little bit, or a lot - whatever you want to call it - because I think it's key and vital that the sport stays clean. It's got to. We have a good history in terms of that and we want to make sure that it stays that way."
 
If people continue to be THIS defensive about sports people you really shouldn't be this defensive over, whether it's Federer or not....expect to be disappointed numerous times over your lives. Just like all the Lance nuthuggers were when it all started to unravel. Though Lance was far more obvious.

All I can say is, if you have any doubt in any of the big 4 doping, you inadvertently doubt all 4. Because you don't win clean if all your rivals are playing dirty, biggest giveaway for Lance.
 
Zen said:
If people continue to be THIS defensive about sports people you really shouldn't be this defensive over, whether it's Federer or not....expect to be disappointed numerous times over your lives. Just like all the Lance nuthuggers were when it all started to unravel. Though Lance was far more obvious.

All I can say is, if you have any doubt in any of the big 4 doping, you inadvertently doubt all 4. Because you don't win clean if all your rivals are playing dirty, biggest giveaway for Lance.
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Conversely, one shouldn't assume that because Armstrong did it that everyone else in other sport are guilty of it and in the process basically defaming a lot of athletes without having any facts to back it up.
 
You should expect people to defend against your argument when your argument is based on feck all.

Take this doping bullshit to another thread. Thanks.
 
You can't just drag up Lance's case when the only similarities are that both are/have been at the top of their sport for an extended period. Lance Armstrong was destroying the competition in a sport where doping has been a huge issue for over 50 years now, at a time when it was arguably at its worst (we'd just had the infamous Festina Tour). There had been strong allegations of positive tests and suspicious blood levels as early as 1999 and they never went away. There was his working relationship with controversial doctor Michele Ferrari whose name was almost synonymous with EPO at that time.

How is this comparable to Roger Federer? Just because some people think he shouldn't be able to do what he's doing, doesn't mean you can just say "remember Lance!" and call that a legitimate argument. Until we have actual numbers pointing to suspicious performances, there's nothing to see here.
 
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