Rodri | Man City player | Ballon d'Or winner

Chesterlestreet said:
The Ballon is nonsense, it has always been nonsense - it means feck all beyond possibly this:

If someone fifty years from now looks at 2024 and sees that Rodri won it, they can be reasonably sure that Rodri was a very good player.

(Similarly, if they see a player who won the feckin' thing multiple times, they can be reasonably sure he was exceptionally good.)
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To play devil's advocate in terms of the best player award I'd argue it's one of the better awards contrasted with lots of entertainment forms.

There's few years where the player who's won it isn't reasonably someone you'd class as one of the top three/five in the world. Even someone like Michael Owen, one of the more objectively weird awards they gave, one that'd probably sent the internet into a meltdown so bad bots start accidentally sending abuse to Clive Owen on Instagram, was somewhat understandable given he was in the form of his life and there arguably wasn't a clear, obvious winner.
 
Cheesy said:
To play devil's advocate in terms of the best player award I'd argue it's one of the better awards contrasted with lots of entertainment forms.

There's few years where the player who's won it isn't reasonably someone you'd class as one of the top three/five in the world. Even someone like Michael Owen, one of the more objectively weird awards they gave, one that'd probably sent the internet into a meltdown so bad bots start accidentally sending abuse to Clive Owen on Instagram, was somewhat understandable given he was in the form of his life and there arguably wasn't a clear, obvious winner.
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Yes - I agree. And that's what I meant by "very good player" = something like top 3/5 in the world (bearing in mind that certain positions will be favoured by the voters).

It is a useful indication - historically - of how good a player is/was.
 
We had to sit and watch a 56 year old Messi take the Ballon d'Or from treble winning, premier league goal record scoring, European golden boot winning Erling Haaland and the club did it with grace.

Real Madrid and Vini have been utterly embarrassing.
 
Cheesy said:
To play devil's advocate in terms of the best player award I'd argue it's one of the better awards contrasted with lots of entertainment forms.

There's few years where the player who's won it isn't reasonably someone you'd class as one of the top three/five in the world. Even someone like Michael Owen, one of the more objectively weird awards they gave, one that'd probably sent the internet into a meltdown so bad bots start accidentally sending abuse to Clive Owen on Instagram, was somewhat understandable given he was in the form of his life and there arguably wasn't a clear, obvious winner.
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Yeah, Raul probably should have won but at that time it did seem like Michael Owen was going to be an all-time great, it was 3 years after that 1998 World Cup goal against Argentina, which actually got him 4th in the 1998 Ballon d'Or at 18 years old (there was serious hype around him back then), the hat-trick against Germany would have been fresh in the memory too around the time of the voting.
 
Already two defeats from just six league games they've played since his injury. And the Sporting collapse.
 
City have a lot of other injuries, it’s not like they’re just missing one player which is causing these losses. They could also have had a half decent back up for one of their most important positions, rather than giving the job to someone who has never been that type of player. And even then, Pep could adjust his tactics slightly.

I don’t have a big problem with him winning the ballon d’or because I don’t think there were many top top candidates, but being the most important player in Pep’s system doesn’t make you the best player in the world. In most other teams he would be fairly replaceable, hence Spain coping fine without him in the Euro final.
 
Dan_F said:
City have a lot of other injuries, it’s not like they’re just missing one player which is causing these losses. They could also have had a half decent back up for one of their most important positions, rather than giving the job to someone who has never been that type of player. And even then, Pep could adjust his tactics slightly.

I don’t have a big problem with him winning the ballon d’or because I don’t think there were many top top candidates, but being the most important player in Pep’s system doesn’t make you the best player in the world. In most other teams he would be fairly replaceable, hence Spain coping fine without him in the Euro final.
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Spain played us though, wasn't big competition. They dropped their control of the game second half.
 
Hammondo said:
Spain played us though, wasn't big competition. They dropped their control of the game second half.
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But Bournemouth and Sporting are big competition for a team like city? I just believe the loss of one player is being greatly exaggerated. If city had less overall injuries and a better replacement for him, they’d be fine.
 
Dan_F said:
City have a lot of other injuries, it’s not like they’re just missing one player which is causing these losses. They could also have had a half decent back up for one of their most important positions, rather than giving the job to someone who has never been that type of player. And even then, Pep could adjust his tactics slightly.

I don’t have a big problem with him winning the ballon d’or because I don’t think there were many top top candidates, but being the most important player in Pep’s system doesn’t make you the best player in the world. In most other teams he would be fairly replaceable, hence Spain coping fine without him in the Euro final.
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City don’t have a lot of other injuries. They have the same as us and Liverpool.
 
Dan_F said:
But Bournemouth and Sporting are big competition for a team like city? I just believe the loss of one player is being greatly exaggerated. If city had less overall injuries and a better replacement for him, they’d be fine.
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The results with and without him before this season suggested City would struggle a lot without him, and they have. It’s not people just telling a grand story after the fact, this is a continuation of the story that got him the ballon d’Or. The people still trying to explain away the record without Rodri as anything other than his outsized impact on one of the all-time great teams - straightforward proof that he’s one of the all time great holding midfielders - are the ones spinning stories to avoid admitting they got it wrong by saying he’s just a very good midfielder, not worth making a fuss over.
 
Wumminator said:
City don’t have a lot of other injuries. They have the same as us and Liverpool.
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Six first team injuries is a lot, we also have a lot of injuries. Liverpool are more fortunate that the keeper change hasn’t made any difference and the rest probably don’t make it into their ideal 11 (before TAA got injured yesterday).
 
Brwned said:
The results with and without him before this season suggested City would struggle a lot without him, and they have. It’s not people just telling a grand story after the fact, this is a continuation of the story that got him the ballon d’Or. The people still trying to explain away the record without Rodri as anything other than his outsized impact on one of the all-time great teams - straightforward proof that he’s one of the all time great holding midfielders - are the ones spinning stories to avoid admitting they got it wrong by saying he’s just a very good midfielder, not worth making a fuss over.
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I’m not trying to diminish his abilities, he’s clearly one of the top players in the world in that position, but by not having a back up or adjusting their tactics, city have made this a bigger issue than it could have been.

Let’s be clear, the argument is not about him being very good etc. it’s about whether he is completely irreplaceable to the point where a team collapses. I don’t care that much about the Ballon D’or, although I don’t think he’s the best footballer in the world.
 
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