Robson or Keane?

[sully07]

Indeed it's not, especially when you bear in mind that they both had their demons but Robbo lived in an era where it was much easier to get away with unprofessional behaviour without being subjected to forensic scrutiny by the press.

Bearing in mind the average age of caftards on here, I always find the discussion about who was the better player a bit pointless. I'm frigging ancient by caftard standards and I can't remember Robson playing with all that much clarity. Feck knows how some of the young 'uns in this thread have come up with such a definitive decision about who was better.

I am unfortunately old enough to have watched Robbo from the Stretford End for many years. I agree with your post though as I have fleeting memories of Law Best and Charlton, not enough to give a genuine opinion of their talents.

Imagine Keane with Scholes passing and goal scoring ability and you have Robson (not as good at passing but close). I also don't think he would have quite the impact on the modern game as it is quicker now and he would not be as effective as a true box to box player.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'd say Robson was better but I wouldn't argue with anyone who said Keane. One aspect of Robson's game that's often overlooked is what a good passer of the ball he was.

An aspect of Keane's game that is also often overlooked. Slightly less forgivably, bearing in mind how much more recently he played.

 

[Macaris Socks]

Robbo was the better player easily.

This, i watched em both and Robbo carried an average United side where as Keano joined an already excellent side.

Robbo could do everything that Keano could do but was also a prolific goal scorer.

 

[moses]

An aspect of Keane's game that is also often overlooked. Slightly less forgivably, bearing in mind how much more recently he played.

Keane was a great passer in respect of him giving the team a tempo and drive, but the fancy ass hollywood scholesy type ball was more likely with Robbo.

 

[Decotron]

Sharky is about 22 or something must be a good dvd collection

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Keane was a great passer in respect of him giving the team a tempo and drive, but the fancy ass hollywood scholesy type ball was more likely with Robbo.

Quite possibly. Like I said, my memories of Robbo are hazy at best and mainly consist of him repeatedly dislocating his shoulder and/or bailing us out of the shit with 20 yard screamers.

 

[moses]

this goal sums Robbo up for me, I was in Australia at the time as a young teen, so I had to stay up til all hours to see it so it adds to the memory.

 

[Randall Flagg]

Robbo by miles as a player and as a man

I dont think that is what this thread is about. But at least Keane is a good family man. Robbo cheated on his wife with Clare Tomlinson

 

[moses]

FFS can we leave morals out of a football discussion just for a change?

 

[jojojo]

When fit, Robson could do everything Keane could do and more, because he was a better all round footballer.

A slightly different question might be to include his overall off-field influence (aka legacy) on the team and its players. people like Fletcher suggest that Keane gave players something to live up to, in terms of training and commitment. Just as Giggs says that Cantona had done for him. I'm not sure if the same influence could be ascribed to Robson.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

When fit, Robson could do everything Keane could do and more, because he was a better all round footballer.

A slightly different question might be to include his overall off-field influence (aka legacy) on the team and its players. people like Fletcher suggest that Keane gave players something to live up to, in terms of training and commitment. Just as Giggs says that Cantona had done for him. I'm not sure if the same influence could be ascribed to Robson.

The opposite, if anything.

 

[moses]

The opposite, if anything.

? I think he has a point, Robbo when he was out was missing in a more Gerrard way, in that, 'who's gonna save us now?' way ... mainly to do with the fairly inconsistent side Big Ron built, our consistency was Robbo's genius.

 

[Ramshock]

Robbo shades for me..for a few reasons but mostly because he could keep his gob shut and get on with it.

 

[moses]

I find the ever so subtle anti Keane digs a bit mad on here, reading this thread they are there. The bloke put his body on the line for this club and his heart into every game. He's a legend for me. One of the greats.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

? I think he has a point, Robbo when he was out was missing in a more Gerrard way, in that, 'who's gonna save us now?' way ... mainly to do with the fairly inconsistent side Big Ron built, our consistency was Robbo's genius.

Wasn't disagreeing with jojojo. She was talking about influence in terms of the standards expected as professional footballers at Manchester United. Brilliant footballer as he undoubtedly was, it doesn't sound as though Robbo was someone you'd want the young players at the club to emulate. Which could be one of the main reasons Fergie got rid.

 

[Ramshock]

I find the ever so subtle anti Keane digs a bit mad on here, reading this thread they are there. The bloke put his body on the line for this club and his heart into every game. He's a legend for me. One of the greats.

Of course he did Moses, Keano was my favourite player post Cantona. But it has to be said he has let himself down on a few occasions since especially for Irish Reds. On the playing side of it there wasn't much separating them except that Robbo was a better goalscorer. Robbo would have accomplished so much more if it wasn't for his litany of injuries.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I find the ever so subtle anti Keane digs a bit mad on here, reading this thread they are there. The bloke put his body on the line for this club and his heart into every game. He's a legend for me. One of the greats.

Just be thankful nobody's called him a cnut yet. Only a matter of time whenever Keano's discussed on here.

 

[moses]

Wasn't disagreeing with jojojo. She was talking about influence in terms of the standards expected as professional footballers at Manchester United. Brilliant footballer as he undoubtedly was, it doesn't sound as though he was someone you'd want the young players at the club to emulate. Which could be one of the main reasons Fergie got rid.

I think that's harsh on Robbo. Robbo was one of the pissheads he did retain though because of his aura.

I think he kept Robbo past his best to get him a league title, he went to boro after us and only played 10 games or so.

 

[moses]

Of course he did Moses, Keano was my favourite player post Cantona. But it has to be said he has let himself down on a few occasions since especially for Irish Reds. On the playing side of it there wasn't much separating them except that Robbo was a better goalscorer. Robbo would have accomplished so much more if it wasn't for his litany of injuries.

I disagree here, Roy had principles, some of em barmy, but I'd be a hypocrite if I hung him out for that. I like Roy, he's a proper person who refuses to speak inn platitudes and although he can be a pain in the arse that doesn't effect my view of him as a footballer. Like who people knob doesn't effect my view of them as footballers. I detest the fact that football has moved off the sports pages to the point that morals and the like are now an excepted part of the discussion on a players ability or worth.

 

[Ramshock]

Listen right now we could do with them both in their prime. We would be literally beat the shit out of everyone!

 

[Stack]

Ummmm no.

Cantona
Charlton
Best
Law
Giggs
Robson
and THEN Keane.

I still struggle with the whole Cantona our best ever player thing. Loved Cantona but for me he was behind Best by a long way.

Robson v Keane? Robson for me by a whisker

 

[peterstorey]

An aspect of Keane's game that is also often overlooked. Slightly less forgivably, bearing in mind how much more recently he played.

I thought that was one of the ones that had been laid to rest (like Scholes being underrated). Everybody thinks of Robson charging about flying into tackles and scoring with diving headers but he gave one of the best displays of all round midfield play I've ever seen in a League cup game at Highbury where we took one of our worst-ever beatings.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I still struggle with the whole Cantona our best ever player thing. Loved Cantona but for me he was behind Best by a long way.

Robson v Keane? Robson for me by a whisker

Not in any order, just a list of players who were better than Keane.

 

[Randall Flagg]

Not in any order, just a list of players who were better than Keane.

Technically yes. But more effective and influential?

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I disagree here, Roy had principles, some of em barmy, but I'd be a hypocrite if I hung him out for that. I like Roy, he's a proper person who refuses to speak inn platitudes and although he can be a pain in the arse that doesn't effect my view of him as a footballer. Like who people knob doesn't effect my view of them as footballers. I detest the fact that football has moved off the sports pages to the point that morals and the like are now an excepted part of the discussion on a players ability or worth.

You say speakes his mind, I say lacks enough self control to keep his opinions to his self. Both are essentially the same thing.

I would say Robbo is the better of the two because he did what he did in a pretty poor side, although I would also say that same reason makes comparisons difficult. Id love to have seen Robbo playing in some of the sides we've had over the last 15 years....

 

[Ish]

A more interesting debate would be who the better "manager" is/was!

I wish I could have seen him (Robbo) play just as I wish I could have seen Duncan Edwards, Bobby Charlton and George Best play.

 

[moses]

You say speakes his mind, I say lacks enough self control to keep his opinions to his self.

Why would someone who advocates keeping opinions to themsleves join a forum?

 

[Feed Me]

Some of the attitudes towards Keane never fail to surprise me.

He was highly outspoken when he was captain, rightly so given he was the on-pitch leader, so why are people getting pissy? Basically he had a rant on MUTV and that was the end... He probably said all that stuff in the dressing room anyway.

The man is an absolute legend.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Why would someone who advocates keeping opinions to themsleves join a forum?

Because Im not a profesional sportsman in the public eye who loves to criticize any one and everything at every given oportunity, the irish set up, The MUTV rant etc, an amazingly talented player who either A: had no self control or B: Had such a huge ego that the moment he was not center of attention he had to do something about it.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

He was highly outspoken when he was captain, rightly so given he was the on-pitch leader, so why are people getting pissy? Basically he had a rant on MUTV and that was the end... He probably said all that stuff in the dressing room anyway.


The man is an absolute legend.

False

True

True

 

[Decotron]

Because Im not a profesional sportsman in the public eye who loves to criticize any one and everything at every given oportunity, the irish set up, The MUTV rant etc, an amazingly talented player who either A: had no self control or B: Had such a huge ego that the moment he was not center of attention he had to do something about it.

this view always comes up from someone. Do people not realise Keane has to give an interview every week. Journo's ask him questions, he answers. Somethings never change.

To say its to do with his ego just shows how far wrong some people are about Keane.

 

[moses]

Because Im not a profesional sportsman in the public eye who loves to criticize any one and everything at every given oportunity, the irish set up, The MUTV rant etc, an amazingly talented player who either A: had no self control or B: Had such a huge ego that the moment he was not center of attention he had to do something about it.

Why should prefessional sportsmen not speak their mind? You like those 'at the end of the day' inteviews on MOTD? Personally they are the problem in my mind.

And they were different times, Keane was followed by the Press, and you can say what you will but to presume Robbo (this is after all a comparison) would've coped with being United and England captain in the last decade is presuming a lot, Robbo is a hero of mine but in fairness he doesn't come across as the sharpest tool in the box.

My main point is that none of this should matter, whether they speak or not, or drink or not. It's about or should be about, what they do on the pitch.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Why should prefessional sportsmen not speak their mind? You like those 'at the end of the day' inteviews on MOTD? Personally they are the problem in my mind.

And they were different times, Keane was followed by the Press, and you can say what you will but to presume Robbo (this is after all a comparison) would've coped with being United and England captain in the last decade is presuming a lot, Robbo is a hero of mine but in fairness he doesn't come across as the sharpest tool in the box.

My main point is that none of this should matter, whether they speak or not, or drink or not. It's about or should be about, what they do on the pitch.

Dont get me wrong, nothing he has done would make me deny he is one of the most influencial and important players to wear our shirt, and vital to our success, I just think he had issues.

 

[moses]

Dont get me wrong, nothing he has done would make me deny he is one of the most influencial and important players to wear our shirt, and vital to our success, I just think he had issues.

Phew, I just wasn't happy arguing with someone called Sparky Hughes!

 

[Mick1991]

I've come to the conclusion that most Caftards hate Roy Keane.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

Wasn't disagreeing with jojojo. She was talking about influence in terms of the standards expected as professional footballers at Manchester United. Brilliant footballer as he undoubtedly was, it doesn't sound as though Robbo was someone you'd want the young players at the club to emulate. Which could be one of the main reasons Fergie got rid.

This seems completely contrary to both Fergie and Keane's autobiographies on Robson.

According to Keane, Robbo was the undisputed leader of the dressing room and key figure of the 94 side. Following him was Bruce. Robbo had everyone's respect(including all the young players and certainly Fergie's) and was a massive figure behind the scenes despite being very much a bit part player by then. Not surprising really when you think back to the fact that Fergie was nothing like the giant of the game and the club he was back in 93 whereas Robbo had been club captain for a decade and an undisputed United legend. Robbo was the one player who had been at the club longer than Fergie himself by a good five years at this point. Robbo's CV is similar to the likes of Charlton, Giggs, Scholes, Keane, etc when it comes to influence and club service, all he really falls down on is the trophies due to playing under Big Ron and Fergie's formative years.

90 International caps, 10 years as United club captain and one of the best midfield players in the world. What is there not to to want to emulate?

One of Keane's stories in his autobiography is that Robbo sat him down on a team night out after training and told him he had to alter his game. He was letting Ince take the ball off the back four too much and was seeing himself as an attacking player whose job was to score goals. Robbo told him to share these duties with Ince or he would never be the player he should be for United and he took this advise on that season. Keane himself says he was abit scared of playing with players of such talent at the time and was steering clear of that responsibility. He does wonder in his AB if Fergie asked Robbo to do this and of course that is entirely possible.

Robbo was not really let go either. He left for Boro as player manager in his mid 30's. His playing career at the top level ended with his last game for United against Coventry.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This seems completely contrary to both Fergie and Keane's autobiographies on Robson.

According to Keane, Robbo was the undisputed leader of the dressing room and key figure of the 94 side. Following him was Bruce. Robbo had everyone's respect(including all the young players and certainly Fergie's) and was a massive figure behind the scenes despite being very much a bit part player by then. Not surprising really when you think back to the fact that Fergie was nothing like the giant of the game and the club he was back in 93 whereas Robbo had been club captain for a decade and an undisputed United legend. Robbo was the one player who had been at the club longer than Fergie himself by a good five years at this point. Robbo's CV is similar to the likes of Charlton, Giggs, Scholes, Keane, etc when it comes to influence and club service, all he really falls down on is the trophies due to playing under Big Ron and Fergie's formative years.

90 International caps, 10 years as United club captain and one of the best midfield players in the world. What is there not to to want to emulate?

One of Keane's stories in his autobiography is that Robbo sat him down on a team night out after training and told him he had to alter his game. He was letting Ince take the ball off the back four too much and was seeing himself as an attacking player whose job was to score goals. Robbo told him to share these duties with Ince or he would never be the player he should be for United and he took this advise on that season. Keane himself says he was abit scared of playing with players of such talent at the time and was steering clear of that responsibility. He does wonder in his AB if Fergie asked Robbo to do this and of course that is entirely possible.

Robbo was not really let go either. He left for Boro as player manager in his mid 30's. His playing career at the top level ended with his last game for United against Coventry.

Once again, I'm in awe of your elephantine memory.

I had Robbo down as a key member of the drinking posse at United that Fergie decided to split up early on in his United career. That's cobbled together from snippets in the press and my own shoddy memory.

Turns out I was well wide of the mark. Well there you have it.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

Once again, I'll have to concede to your elephantine memory.

I had Robba down as a key member of the drinking posse at United that Fergie decided to split up early on in his United career. That's cobbled together from snippets in the press and my own shoddy memory.

Turns out I was well wide of the mark. Well there you have it.

There is no disputing Robbo liked a drink. But most footballers did in his generation and also Keane's generation until he did the cruciate. Going on Keane's AB, it sounds like only Hughes and Cantona did not drink with the other players during that era. Eric drank occasional wine and Hughes did not socialise. Keane himself would go out with the Robbo, Bruce, Pally crowd and sometimes go out solely with Sharpe. Fergie could not have seen it as such a huge problem if all the senior players went out socially. It was one of the parts of how they bonded.

It's only really a very recent trend of no drinking in football. I say it was commonplace from around World cup 98 onwards.

We are not talking about all night benders here. A few drinks during the week after training. Robbo's own personal rule is he did not drink two or three days before a game.

The main problem with drinking was Mcgrath and Whiteside and Fergie snuffed them pretty quickly. Different situations entirely when we are talking about Mcgrath, drink nearly finished him.

One of Fergie's quotes in his autobiography is that Robbo was one of the hardest trainers going and in fairness he had to be to play the box to box game he did.

I think Robbo's drinking is exagerated abit for nostalgia purposes and also add to the captain marvel tag. That he was this shit hot never say die captain who could tackle, score goals, run all day, inspire and also drink as hard as an average bloke adds to the romance of him and his era.

I'd say he was a marginally better player than Keane and that overall they are the two best midfield players I have seen for United.

 

[moses]

I agree, but not sure if Robbo was less of a boozer or just more symbolically important. And he could really onnly hold on to one of them.

 

[Mick1991]

But Robson gets the respect he deserves, but with Roy I just don't feel the love.