[matherto]

It seems most of us are in agreement.
I'd actually feel semi-confident of beating Chelsea with that side. City's a different matter though.

I wouldn't feel confident of beating either of them. I just think the diamond will mean both teams will just waltz through our midfield and batter us whereas we mightly simply get away with a comprehensive defeat if we've got more of a defensive base.

 

[Speak]

I wouldn't feel confident of beating either of them. I just think the diamond will mean both teams will just waltz through our midfield and batter us whereas we mightly simply get away with a comprehensive defeat if we've got more of a defensive base.

You think we'll lose both?

 

[sizzling sausages]

The main problem I'd have with the team that most of you want is that we would be even more reliant on Di Maria than we already are. Chelsea keep him quiet and we would have no one else that could create something for us. My other problem is that it would mean Valencia starting on the wing and I really hoped I wouldn't have to see that again anytime soon.

 

[Sam]

Yeah, I'd also like to see Carrick sat next to Blind as an extra man and just 1 up top (Falcao). I'd also be welcome to seeing a well drilled Valencia to defend the right channel and cover for Rafael in big games...

-----------------------DDG-------------------
Rafael--------Jones--------Rojo--------Shaw
--------Carrick-----------------Blind----------
Valencia------------Herrera-------------ADM
----------------------Falcao-------------------

Problem with that (as we saw at West Brom) is that Di Maria is absolutely wasted on the wing. If we had a Carrick/Blind base, I'd prefer something like this...

-----------------------DDG-------------------
Rafael--------Jones--------Rojo--------Shaw
--------Carrick------------------Blind----------
--------------------Herrera-------------------

--------------------Di Maria-------------------
-------------RVP---------------Falcao---------

However, I don't see how Carrick will be anywhere near fit enough to start a match, let alone vs Chelsea.

 

[JUPITER]

Problem with that (as we saw at West Brom) is that Di Maria is absolutely wasted on the wing. If we had a Carrick/Blind base, I'd prefer something like this...

-----------------------DDG-------------------
Rafael--------Jones--------Rojo--------Shaw
--------Carrick------------------Blind----------
--------------------Herrera-------------------

--------------------Di Maria-------------------
-------------RVP---------------Falcao---------

However, I don't see how Carrick will be anywhere near fit enough to start a match, let alone vs Chelsea.

Bit too narrow I'd say. If you want Di Maria through the middle (which is a good shout) I think Young has to come into the picture for the left flank...

And I just really can't stress enough that RvP and Falcao starting together against any top team is mental.

 

[Sam]

Bit too narrow I'd say. If you want Di Maria through the middle (which is a good shout) I think Young has to come into the picture for the left flank...

Its closest thing to the formation we've looked most comfortable with this season, and has got the best out of Di Maria. Having either Young/Valencia on the wing as one of our attacking outlets would be like playing with 10 men, neither are going to hurt Chelsea in the slightest.

 

[Speak]

Problem with that (as we saw at West Brom) is that Di Maria is absolutely wasted on the wing. If we had a Carrick/Blind base, I'd prefer something like this...

-----------------------DDG-------------------
Rafael--------Jones--------Rojo--------Shaw
--------Carrick------------------Blind----------
--------------------Herrera-------------------

--------------------Di Maria-------------------
-------------RVP---------------Falcao---------

However, I don't see how Carrick will be anywhere near fit enough to start a match, let alone vs Chelsea.

Chelsea will sit really narrow, and we'd struggle to play through them. Rafael will be occupied by Hazard, there are no guarantees that Shaw will do a lot going forward. We'd really really lack width.

I agree that Di Maria's wasted on the wing, but we aren't in a great position at the moment.
I'd take van Persie out and put Valencia wide right; Di Maria wide left.
If Carrick isn't ready we're in a bit of trouble, in my opinion, because Herrera isn't equipped to play as part of the base.

 

[JUPITER]

Also, I wouldn't say that Di Maria is 'wasted' on the left against Chelsea - having a world class player to deal with will keep Ivanovic busy and that shouldn't be underestimated in it's worth!

 

[matherto]

You think we'll lose both?

I'd say it's more likely we'll lose both than get any points from either of them.

 

[markhrad]

How I look at it is that RVP, Falcao and Mata have/ had 3 games to prove themselves with one remaining. Whoever performs worst will most likely be replaced by Rooney on his return from suspension.
Since LVG stated that he does not seen Rooney as a striker the onus is on Mata to deliver more than the other 2.

 

[bosnian_red]

I'd say it's more likely we'll lose both than get any points from either of them.

Are you this pessimistic about everything? You'd think we were some pub team with shit players. Playing 2 games, 1 at home, I'd be very surprised if we got 0 points from the 2. I'm not saying we're better then either, but we are playing at home, we are never under dogs at home, especially not when we have players like De Gea, Herrera, Di Maria, Falcao, Van Persie (regardless of form), and everyone else.

 

[matherto]

Are you this pessimistic about everything? You'd think we were some pub team with shit players. Playing 2 games, 1 at home, I'd be very surprised if we got 0 points from the 2. I'm not saying we're better then either, but we are playing at home, we are never under dogs at home, especially not when we have players like De Gea, Herrera, Di Maria, Falcao, Van Persie (regardless of form), and everyone else.

Yes.

We're playing the runaway league leaders at home, we got easily beaten by them last time we played them (granted away from home) and they've strengthened perfectly over the summer. They're one of the world's best teams, we're not. We are underdogs, regardless of it being a home game, we'd be underdogs against City, Real, Barça, Bayern, etc so to say we're never is ridiculous.

We're horrific defensively and too open in midfield, even with Herrera, Di Maria, Blind etc the likes of West Brom, West Ham and so on have been carving through us at will so what the hell do you think Chelsea and City (especially City, Yaya versus our midfield and Aguero against our defence is going to be embarrassing) are going to do to us?

We're obviously going to lose both matches but we're not competing with Chelsea nor City yet so we shouldn't worry about it. Sad state of affairs but it's the truth.

And how can it be 'regardless of form'. Names mean feck all if they're not performing. RVP isn't performing and he'll be next to useless against City and Chelsea given he's been next to useless against everyone else. At least, unless he isn't truly done and remembers who the feck he is.

 

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

Van Persie has single handily destroyed Chelsea in the past (Good old days) But if he starts on Sunday i'll be pretty annoyed. LVG and RVP love affair is getting on my nerves now tbh, I can't believe Falcao was dropped to the bench with some silly jet lag excuse, when he was pretty much in perfect form scoring 3 goals in 3 games for club and country.

We need to play Falcao with a strong and stacked midfield behind him to close the gaps, if we play with 2 strikers on Sunday, Chelsea will massacre us.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yes.

We're playing the runaway league leaders at home, we got easily beaten by them last time we played them (granted away from home) and they've strengthened perfectly over the summer. They're one of the world's best teams, we're not. We are underdogs, regardless of it being a home game, we'd be underdogs against City, Real, Barça, Bayern, etc so to say we're never is ridiculous.

We're horrific defensively and too open in midfield, even with Herrera, Di Maria, Blind etc the likes of West Brom, West Ham and so on have been carving through us at will so what the hell do you think Chelsea and City (especially City, Yaya versus our midfield and Aguero against our defence is going to be embarrassing) are going to do to us?

We're obviously going to lose both matches but we're not competing with Chelsea nor City yet so we shouldn't worry about it. Sad state of affairs but it's the truth.

And how can it be 'regardless of form'. Names mean feck all if they're not performing. RVP isn't performing and he'll be next to useless against City and Chelsea given he's been next to useless against everyone else. At least, unless he isn't truly done and remembers who the feck he is.

So because we aren't as good as them that means they will win? That's not how football works. We're playing at Old Trafford and with a team like ours (a very good one, just a new one so its disjointed at times), we have a chance against everyone. It's not like Chelsea have superior players in every position, they clearly don't. Anyways, teams don't just roll over because they aren't as good as another team at that point. Stoke beat City at the etihad this season. We are a much, much better team then Stoke. It's unlikely we'll get a result at the etihad, I feel like we've struggled there always (though we got a decent amount of good results there with Fergie), but at home against Chelsea I think we'll definitely get something out of the match.

It really is amazing how much Moyes has ruined everyones confidence. How many times have we come up against superior players but came away with a result? It's just a matter of our players being on their game, and if they are, then I don't care who we are playing, Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Chelsea or City (who are nowhere close to the first 3), we have a good chance to win, and that's because of the quality of the players we have in our team now.

 

[Amethyst]

Listen to Louis van Gaal on Robin van Persie and the impression given is hardly that the striker is fighting to retain his place in the Manchester United XI. The manager is confident that although his Dutch compatriot has scored only twice for him at United, the 31-year-old requires only luck to rediscover his prolific form.

Yet Chelsea’s arrival at Old Trafford on Sunday may be a last chance to prove himself before Wayne Rooney’s return from a three-game suspension for the trip to Manchester City for the derby in the following match.

Van Gaal is backing Van Persie to score against José Mourinho’s side and he could certainly use a goal, although Radamel Falcao, Juan Mata, Adnan Januzaj and James Wilson also factor into this equation as the manager decides who should form his front three. Given that Rooney has what Van Gaal has called “special privileges” as captain and that Falcao was the club’s star signing of the summer, if Van Persie continues to misfire he may come under threat.

The former Arsenal striker has appeared sluggish so far, his two goals coming in seven starts. But Van Gaal still believes he is seeing the best of the man he appointed his Holland captain.

“I think he is more fit than ever,” said the manager. “He don’t score so much. In the Dutch team he has scored more than now for Manchester United and then he was not so fit as now. That’s remarkable, but he scored in [almost] every game for me in the World Cup in spite of maybe his 80% fitness. He scored four goals out of six games and then also a penalty. So maybe now he is playing better but doesn’t score as much.”

Van Persie’s two goals this season came in consecutive outings – in the 5-3 reverse at Leicester City and the 2-1 home win over West Ham United – towards the end of September. On Monday evening, though, as United trailed 2-1 at West Bromwich Albion, Van Persie showed a flash of quality when using his weaker foot. “He’s a little bit unlucky, like against West Bromwich Albion when he shot with right foot – it was hard to believe that that shot stayed out of the goal,” the manager said. “So a striker needs also a bit of luck and then the confidence is higher but he’s self-confident so I expect he shall score and maybe against Chelsea.”

So far Van Persie has remained injury free, which is a fillip after previously admitting to managing persistent issues for years. Perhaps this is why Van Gaal mentioned his fitness this term. Yet sooner or later age and his fragile physique will catch up with him.

Last season Van Persie suffered nine separate injuries but still managed 12 goals in 18 Premier League starts. In the previous, title-winning year there were 26 in 35. These figures may be why the manager is adamant his star forward is not past his peak. “He has showed that at the World Cup and is showing that now except scoring goals but that is only a matter of time,” said Van Gaal before outlining Van Persie’s all-round contribution. “Every striker has to be at the attacking point. He has to play with the other 10 players. That is also important. That he is now doing better than in Dutch team.”

Van Gaal meanwhile believes that Diego Costa will appear for Chelsea. The Spain striker has a continuing hamstring issue and has been ill this week. But Van Gaal believes Mourinho will start him. “I think that he shall play with him when he can because he wants to win. Of course he can play. He has trained individually, I have heard, I have read on the websites. I also have my eyes always open. He has scored nine out of seven, that is remarkable, so he is in a good shape I think but he was ill so you never know.”

Ángel di María injured a thigh at West Brom but Van Gaal confirmed that he and Ander Herrera, who was also replaced, were available. “Ander was already fit and, with Di María, I said after the match that normally it [the injury] should not be so heavy and it’s not heavy.

“So he has trained. It was only the first day that he didn’t train so he has trained from Thursday, no problem. I let Michael Carrick play this evening in London for the reserves [at West Ham] because I believe that he needs that.”

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/24/louis-van-gaal-robin-van-persie-manchester-united

 

[ZDwyr]

Not sure I'd put it down to luck, or an absence of luck.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

I think he'll score tomorrow.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

I really hope Falcao starts......Van Persie had his chances in the last games and wasn't good enough (He was poor for the Netherlands too in their last games)

 

[JUPITER]

Hopefully mind-games from Van Gaal - talking only of Van Persie and not mentioning Falcao...

I really, really hope Falcao starts the Chelsea match as lone striker.

 

[NinjaZombie]

As much as I'm a big fan of his, I still find it amazing he's starting games for us instead of Falcao.

 

[JaffyJoe]

It's not the fact RVP isn't scoring that is particularly worrying to me, it is his all round performances. I mean Rooney plays poorly and scores, he's done that for th least few years. We need a more complete all round game from your striker at this level and from what we've seen Falcao is paying better than RVP who is doing almost NOTHING out there. This isn't just one match it has been this way for a while. his best game for Holland was against Spain so the World Cup really isn't a valid way of proving any point to me. He will start against Chelsea and if at a also starts we have lost.

 

[SirAF]

It's not the fact RVP isn't scoring that is particularly worrying to me, it is his all round performances. I mean Rooney plays poorly and scores, he's done that for th least few years. We need a more complete all round game from your striker at this level and from what we've seen Falcao is paying better than RVP who is doing almost NOTHING out there. This isn't just one match it has been this way for a while. his best game for Holland was against Spain so the World Cup really isn't a valid way of proving any point to me. He will start against Chelsea and if at a also starts we have lost.

Absolutely. I love RvP but I'll throw a fit if he starts tomorrow!

 

[DWelbz19]

He's been shit. I didn't expect van Gaal to mollycoddle around him like this, just because he's Dutch. No special privileges, eh.

 

[Kostur]

Well during Rooney's absence he's been given the captain armband and the captain has the 'special blablabla' so I absolutely expect him to start against Chelsea.

 

[Water Melon]

No doubt the Board want us to be in top 4 at the end of the season, so its time we start to perform against our direct rivals. Louis will take a huge risk if he starts RvP on Sunday, and if the risk does not pay off, the game against City will be even ore stressful. I hope Falcao starts, as I am sure he has more to offer than RvP. If we start both RvP and Mata, I expect the Chavs to win the game in the first half.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Last season Van Persie suffered nine separate injuries but still managed 12 goals in 18 Premier League starts. In the previous, title-winning year there were 26 in 35. These figures may be why the manager is adamant his star forward is not past his peak. “He has showed that at the World Cup and is showing that now except scoring goals but that is only a matter of time,” said Van Gaal before outlining Van Persie’s all-round contribution. “Every striker has to be at the attacking point. He has to play with the other 10 players. That is also important. That he is now doing better than in Dutch team.”



Really don't agree with that from LVG. RVP's overall contribution has been disappointing this campaign so far and he has been anonymous for most of the matches he played in. I'm just not seeing the hold-up play, dropping deep, terrific passing and link-up play of the old complete RVP. This version of RVP has regressed but I really hope that is due to a blip in form and not him being past his peak. Oh and I'm not asking LVG to throw RVP under the bus in the media, like what Rodgers did to Balotelli but perhaps he could start playing RVP on the basis of his form.

 

[Pexbo]

Last season Van Persie suffered nine separate injuries but still managed 12 goals in 18 Premier League starts. In the previous, title-winning year there were 26 in 35. These figures may be why the manager is adamant his star forward is not past his peak. “He has showed that at the World Cup and is showing that now except scoring goals but that is only a matter of time,” said Van Gaal before outlining Van Persie’s all-round contribution. “Every striker has to be at the attacking point. He has to play with the other 10 players. That is also important. That he is now doing better than in Dutch team.”

Really don't agree with that from LVG. RVP's overall contribution has been disappointing this campaign so far and he has been anonymous for most of the matches he played in. I'm just not seeing the hold-up play, dropping deep, terrific passing and link-up play of the old complete RVP. This version of RVP has regressed but I really hope that is due to a blip in form and not him being past his peak. Oh and I'm not asking LVG to throw RVP under the bus in the media, like what Rodgers did to Balotelli but perhaps he could start playing RVP on the basis of his form.

I doubt he actually believes what he is saying though, it's more a case of talking up his striker to build confidence. Much like Rodgers is doing with Balotelli at the moment.

 

[Joga Bonito]

I doubt he actually believes what he is saying though, it's more a case of talking up his striker to build confidence. Much like Rodgers is doing with Balotelli at the moment.

Yeah hope so but it looks like RVP is going to get a free pass till he regains his form, when it would be actually better for the team and RVP himself if he were to be dropped for a game or two.

 

[ninety]

As much as I'm a big fan of his, I still find it amazing he's starting games for us instead of Falcao.

It's due to Falcao's fitness more than anything else. It takes a long time to fully regain your fitness after an ACL. Hopefully Falcao can get to a stage where he can last a full 90 minutes sooner rather than later because he looks better than RVP at the moment.

Think RVP will come good though. All players go through rough patches just more attention is drawn to it when you're one of the biggest names in the league.

 

[togg]

As someone else said, he's never really been the same since Fergie left. I think it really hit him hard, but...well.....for what he earns a week, he just needs to get over it. I can understand him being disillusioned with Moyes, but he respects and supports LVG - hopefully he'll get his edge back soon...

 

[Sam]

Those quotes from LVG are genuinely quite worrying, and they do seem to back the theory that RVP is getting special treatment.

West Ham game aside, he's been pretty crap this season. Nothing to do with bad luck.

 

[pocco]

I hope Van Gaal doesn't really believe what he's saying or that is a pretty worrying assessment.

 

[Jazz]

I hope Van Gaal doesn't really believe what he's saying or that is a pretty worrying assessment.

I wouldn't take everything said at face value. He's not blind, he knows RVP is not performing to the standard expected - for whatever reason. However, it would be counter-productive to slag him (or any other player) off publicly as the player will lose confidence etc. Plus no matter how he feels about RVP, if he does not up his performances then LVG will have no choice but to drop him. The club just cannot afford this at the moment, there's too much pressure and LVG knows this better than anyone else.

 

[pocco]

I wouldn't take everything said at face value. He's not blind, he knows RVP is not performing to the standard expected - for whatever reason. However, it would be counter-productive to slag him (or any other player) off publicly as the player will lose confidence etc. Plus no matter how he feels about RVP, if he does not up his performances then LVG will have no choice but to drop him. The club just cannot afford this at the moment, there's too much pressure and LVG knows this better than anyone else.

When you couple his quotes with the fact that RVP seems untouchable on the pitch and never gets subbed, I'm inclined to think he is actually happy with what he sees.

 

[Devil may care]

Hopefully that is just standard manager bluffing with LvG.

 

[Jazz]

When you couple his quotes with the fact that RVP seems untouchable on the pitch and never gets subbed, I'm inclined to think he is actually happy with what he sees.

I understand what you're saying, but as I mentioned as well, if that is what he truly believes, then he will have no choice but to drop RVP eventually - he'll have no choice. We're under too much pressure for him to indulge RVP forever. I am however, prepared to be patient tomorrow and see if RVP rises to the occasion. I have a funny feeling him along with Mata are on trial somehow, and need to really get their sh*t together.

 

[JUPITER]

Sounds a bit overly dramatic but what the hey: Could LvG's favouritism of RvP actually end up costing him his job?

I mean, starting him and playing him for 90 mins is quite possibly costing us points. Pull that against top 4 rivals and if RvP's complete invisibility continues we'll be dropping points in 6 pointer games - finish outside the top 4 and LvG could well be gone.

Like I said, bit overly dramatic, but if he starts him against Chelsea and City (and RvP does nothing) I'd certainly revisit this question!

 

[Jazz]

Sounds a bit overly dramatic but what the hey: Could LvG's favouritism of RvP actually end up costing him his job?

I mean, starting him and playing him for 90 mins is quite possibly costing us points. Pull that against top 4 rivals and if RvP's complete invisibility continues we'll be dropping points in 6 pointer games - finish outside the top 4 and LvG could well be gone.

Like I said, bit overly dramatic, but if he starts him against Chelsea and City (and RvP does nothing) I'd certainly revisit this question!

Don't know about costing him his job... however, it's a tricky situation I believe with strikers. I remember after starting brilliantly for us when we last won the title, RVP went through a little phase and stopped scoring. Of course it didn't matter then as it does now, however I believe once he got the first goal again after that 'drought' he went and hugged Fergie, more from relief than anything. Think later Fergie commented on encouraging him and trying to make see that him not scoring was temporary and I guess urging him to be patient. Of course Fergie showed faith in him and continued playing him and of course it worked. I guess LVG is trying to do the same thing, and it wouldn't be a big problem except we are in a completely different situation. I think it's difficult for a manager to manage a situation like this.

 

[Sam]

Don't know about costing him his job... however, it's a tricky situation I believe with strikers. I remember after starting brilliantly for us when we last won the title, RVP went through a little phase and stopped scoring. Of course it didn't matter then as it does now, however I believe once he got the first goal again after that 'drought' he went and hugged Fergie, more from relief than anything. Think later Fergie commented on encouraging him and trying to make see that him not scoring was temporary and I guess urging him to be patient. Of course Fergie showed faith in him and continued playing him and of course it worked. I guess LVG is trying to do the same thing, and it wouldn't be a big problem except we are in a completely different situation. I think it's difficult for a manager to manage a situation like this.

The problem is, its not just because he's not scoring much that people are concerned. Its how crap his overall game has become.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

if someone didn't watch the matches and read this thread, one might think Falcao and Mata have been outstanding so far. That's not the case. What's this nonsense about favouritism? If you prefer a player to start, mainly based on hope and expectation because of his name, and the manager prefers the other, that means either you or the manager got it wrong. Sometimes managers get it wrong, and sometimes even Van Gaal gets it wrong, but the suggestion that a manager who doesn't agree with some fan is guilty of favouratism is just plain stupid.