Robert Lewandowski
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Well there is talk now that Pep doesnt want him anymore.
He's confirmed on TV that he'll be signing for Bayern on a free transfer on 2nd January and will move there in the Summer. This shouldn't go down well with Dortmund fans.
On a free?! Dortmund should have sold him for 20 mils they were getting in the summer! Bummer.
It wasn't a big secret anyway. And I doubt any Dortmund fan had hope that he will change his mind. At least there won't be any new speculations and he can focus on his job. As long as he performs reasonably well, I doubt the Dortmund fans will punish him. He wasn't at his best in the last few games though, hopefully he starts to play better again in the next months.
Had already been confirmed by Bayern, so I guess he was just being honest
Not that I know of, any link to an official statement that confirmed the deal before Lewandowski gave the interview yesterday? Afaik the only ones who clearly said in public that it will happen, were Dortmund officials during the summer, who talked about Bayern all the time.
Bayern with a striker of his quality ... That's cheating.
We probably won't play him in the big games anyway
I think Mandzukic is perfect for Bayern right now, he suits your team very well. He isn't horrible in front of the goal either but teams always have to find ways to improve I suppose.
This whole thing doesn't sit well with me. I wish Klopp would banish him to play no games this season.
He will be awesome for Bayern though, he's the complete package. Their team will be insanely good.
He will be awesome for Bayern though, he's the complete package. Their team will be insanely good.
So far it looks like Guardiola wants the center forward to move wide without the ball all the time, and not drop deep into midfield. Most likely it's because Ribery and Robben love to come inside and are already overloading the midfield. Lewandowski loves to drop deep, so yeah, I agree, Mandzukic is probably the better fit for our wide playmakers.
If we sign Lewandowski and keep Mandzukic, we probably won't use Götze as a false 9, so it's again another player for the few spots in midfield. A lot will depend on what role Martinez is going to play. If he regularly starts in midfield with Schweinsteiger as one of the 4 behind the striker in Pep's 4141, we need to let go of one of our older big name players or else Thiago, Shaqiri, Kroos, Götze will struggle to get enough playing time and all our great youth players like Hoijberg will leave. If Martinez will become a centerback, it might be possible to keep the whole squad happy, but it's still very difficult. And there's also the big Lahm question, which is really a bit worrying right now. Pep is so much in love with Lahm as the holding midfielder, that I'm not 100% sure that he'll be back at right back when all our midfielders are fit again. I thought the moment Schweinsteiger is ready to play again, he'll start as the holding midfielder, but no, Lahm again played that role away at Schalke.
Talk about the problems some teams have. ffs.
Think there's a very simple to all of it too, Bayern should just sell one of their million CMs to us.
Think there's a very simple to all of it too, Bayern should just sell one of their million CMs to us.
Is the Bayren deal complete or just something that has been verbally agreed by club and player ?
Must feel sorry for Dortmund, that's 4 seasons in a row someone is buying one of their best(if not the best) players. Who's next? Gundogan? Reus?
Lewandowski can't sign a contract before January 2nd. Players are only allowed to sign a new contract 6 months before their old one is up, if they want to leave on a free. So no, the deal isn't complete yet. Lewandowski said in an interview after the game yesterday, that he will sign the contract for Bayern on January 2nd, that's it.
It'l be tough from now on, they've removed the release clause contracts from what I've read. But if it does happen, hopefully its Gundogan to us, the sexy bastard.
He was just talking about last summer. He said he's happy with the players in the squad, but Thiago is a very special player and if he's available and wants to join, he'd love to sign him. Of course he didn't say he never wants to sign anyone ever again. Lewandowski will join Bayern next summer and most likely Pizarro will leave.
Reus' clause is activating in 2014, at least that's what I read from few sources, so there you go.
Yep.
Dortmund wouldn't have sold Lewandowski to Bayern anyway, so why should Pep talk about him, when he's clearly not available? The journalists asked if Pep wants to sign more players, after we already signed Götze and Kirchhoff and extended the contracts of van Buyten and Pizarro and we were about to sign Thiago. And we still had Gomez at that time, if I remember correctly. Since then Gustavo, Emre Can and Gomez left.
2015.
You're right, my bad.
It seems weird that a player can admit that he will be joining his direct title rivals whilst still playing for his current team for the best part of a whole season. If Rooney came out now and said "I'm signing for Chelsea in January and I'm off in July", I wouldn't want him playing for us again. Lewandowski's still been playing for Dortmund even though it's clear he wanted out all summer. Is his heart really going to be in it at all this year?
It's not that easy for Klopp in fairness though, if he was playing shit, not trying and never at training then yes it would make sense to drop him but he's started the season well and is scoring goals. By dropping him when you've got no one else of that quality you're pretty much cutting off your nose to spite your face. The only option they have to drop Lewandowski is to sign a world class striker in January which I can't see happening.
I can see why people think he's out of order doing it but he's only doing what he feels is right for him. He's going to the best team in the world arguably and has far greater chance of massive success there than he probably feels he does at Dortmund. I never get this "loyalty" people imply players have to give to a club. It's nice to have it but it's pretty non existent now. Lewandowski always performed for Dortmund and is entitled to a shot at a bigger club or one he feels he could achieve more at. Fr most players now I imagine they just see it as a job, there's not going to be many more Ryan Giggs etc around (and lets be honest, would Giggs, Scholes, Neville of stayed at United if they were a midtable team every season? Probably not.)
I think the Bundesliga is slightly different than the PL (or the other elite leagues) in that regard, as Bayern are the only true elite club in there, as opposed to all the other major leagues which have a couple at the least, making players switching so openly less contentious than it is here, or in Spain or Italy.
Obviously the quality varies, and the Dortmunds and Bremens of this world can best them to the league, but in terms of stature and prestige, there's nothing to touch them, whereas even clubs like Liverpool who've been relatively barren success wise in England, can still lure players in with the size and history of their club, and don't expect to lose players to their rivals.
It's incredibly harsh on Dortmund, who've won more European Cups than Arsenal, but when you're listing the top clubs in the world, you invariably list maybe 3 from England, 3 from Italy, 2 from Spain and the 1 from Germany.
I'm sure Balu will correct me if I'm wrong, but it's always struck me that it's just accepted that if a player is good in Germany, they will end up at Bayern. No two ways about it. Their shadow casts long over the Bundesliga.
I know it won't happen but I honestly wouldn't play him a minute more. I'd let him rot in the reserves.
Doubt that's true. It's about money, that's it. That's why City or Chelsea are named as one of the big clubs in Europe. That's what Italian teams built their success on in the 80's and 90's, when owners spent silly money on players to make it the best league in the world. Liverpool had a higher revenue, spent more money on players and wages and played in a more attractive league, that's why they attracted better players in the recent past than clubs like Hamburg, Gladbach or up until this summer Dortmund, clubs that also have a rich history. Sure, it's great to play for clubs with a lot of history, but it only becomes a factor if the surroundings are great. Look at Milan or Inter now after their sugardaddys stopped giving money and the league's quality dropped massively. Inter dropped from a treble winning team to a midtable team within 2 years, because the owner wasn't interested in covering the massive losses anymore after spending around €800m of his own money for the club in ten years. They can't attract top players even though they have a lot of history. The German league was in even worse conditions for about ten years than Serie A is now and we're still recovering. Financially the Bundesliga is now the second biggest league in Europe (we have with 18 teams a higher total revenue than Italy and Spain with 20 teams). Everything is growing slowly, the clubs pay more wages, transfer records are broken again and again. And it doesn't look like that development will stop. That's why a club like Gladbach is able to sign very good foreign talents again, they pay good money and play in one of the most attractive leagues in Europe, not because they were one of the best teams in the world in the seventies.
During Dortmund's last successful period (95-2002) they were at least equal in terms of revenue most of the time and paid higher wages than Bayern, that's why for example Sammer as a player chose Dortmund over us back then. If Dortmund's financial development continues, there's no reason why they shouldn't establish themselves as a top 8 club in Europe, there's enough talent and money in Germany to make it happen, just like there's enough money in the Premier League to allow 3 or even 4 teams to be part of that top 8 in Europe. Dortmund right now is somewhat unlucky, that they pushed us so hard, that we had to become the best team in the world to be back at the top in Germany and we did an outstanding job to make it reality. Bayern from 5 years ago would have had no chance to sign Lewandowski or Götze, just like we couldn't sign Diego in 2009 when he was clearly the best player in the league. Dortmund in 5 years time might be able to keep players of that quality, if they continue to do such a great job, on and off the pitch.
So I was talking complete bollocks then. Good. How will Dortmund fans react to Lewandowski this half season then?
This has been known for a while now so nothing much should change just because he said it.
Same way they did with Götze I'd imagine.
Wouldn't call it complete bollocks. Bayern were financially so far ahead in the last 10 years that it happened really often. We bought a lot quality players from Bremen, Stuttgart and Leverkusen, when they had good teams. It's just that it wasn't a choice between staying and going to Bayern, but more a choice between going abroad or going to Bayern. We also lost Ballack for example and without the massive turn-around in 2010, the surprising run to the CL final and Ribery's personal problems, there's no way Ribery would still play for Bayern.
It's a bit of a myth, just the like the theory that German players usually don't go abroad, that one really is complete bollocks.
No, they (we) won´t, at least not to that extend. Aside from his annoying advisors Lewandowski was always straight forward, which is something that is very highly rated among the fans. If he would go abroad most of them would wish him all the best in the world. Its his destination, which is problematic.
Götze´s case was very different. Sure people were dissapointed when he triggered his release clause and frustrated that he would go to Bayern Munich, but for the most part they were angry. Not so much towards Bayern Munich. The anger was directed mostly towards Götze himself. The way he handled this transfer was downright pathetic:
He gave multiple interviews filled with superlative after superlative about how happy he was at Dortmund and having everything he needs there, not imagining a transfer in the near future to any club on the planet. These interviews were at a time, when the deal to Bayern was already done. I´m aware that football players talk a lot nonsense, but the tone of those interviews were completely unneeded at that time.
Add to that most of his former team mates, including the lead players Kehl, Weidenfeller and Hummels, were informed about his transfer via the BILD, the shittiest paper in Germany and that he left without openly saying anything about them.
The point, which made me personally furious was the reason he internally gave for his transfer. It was not his massive pay rise or the greater reputation, title chances and team of Bayern, it was the coach. His dream coach Guardiola, whom he always admired and viewed as the greatest manager in the world. He basically told Klopp, the man who moulded him to the player he is today, to his face, that he was not good enough anymore. The day Klopp told the press this, you could see how gutted he was because of this.
To put it in one sentence: In this whole saga Götze acted like a huge spoilt ungrateful cnut. That is the reason, why he is a persona non grata at Dortmund now.
I think the two biggest reason for the shift away from this are the following ones:
1. Number of quality players in the league: There is simply too much talent right now in the Bundesliga for a single club and thus other German clubs, especially Dortmund get a fair share of them.
2. Dortmund´s financial growth: While Bayern remains the top dog in that regard, the difference between them and Dortmund is actually smaller than between Dortmund and the following clubs Schalke, Wolfsburg and Leverkusen. Since the golden days of Dortmund in the 90ies Germany had never two clubs, which were so much ahead of the rest. Dortmund has become the clear second adress for Bundesliga players and is now also able to attract proven foreign players. A player like Sokratis, who would start in any other club bar Bayern would have never joined Dortmund a couple of years ago as 3rd CB. In a way it has become even harder for the Bundesliga teams to hold onto their talent, because now there are not one but two clubs able to snatch them away, if they really are really willing to do so.
Pointless league.
They've had more winners than La Liga, Seria A & the PL in the last 10 years, and their top two teams would beat our top two teams. And in fact beat everyone's top two teams last season.
Why is it clueless? There surely has to be question marks over a league where Dortmund's two best players have chosen to leave the club to join its main competitor. And this is not an Arsenal-style situation where the Dortmund team that has been unsuccessful for a long period (nor showed signs of being unsuccessful any time soon) either. At least with the Barca/Real duopoly they share equal billing and one team's players aren't seeking to move to the 'bigger' club.
Where exactly can the competition come from in Germany?
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