Road Ahead - Is Complete Rebuild Possible?

NewGlory

United make me feel dirty. And not in a sexy way.
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Jul 13, 2019
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Despite our great win yesterday, the reality check of Arsenal's performance against Leicester today says, they are not gonna bottle it, and there's no way we will win enough games to make top 4. As immensely painful as it is for any United fan, we need to admit that at this critical juncture for our club, we will be left without Champions League football.

What does that mean for the rebuild?

I don't think it means we cannot attract a top manager. Not having UCL in and of itself is not a deal-breaker for even top managers. The reasons behind why we are so bad may be, but not the lack of UCL in one particular year. Full disclosure: my one and only favorite is Erik ten Hag and he won't shy away from us because we didn't make top 4. Neither will Poch, the favorite-apparent of our board, whom I would rather not see as our manager,

Things are obviously much more complicated when it comes to players. A lot of our "top" players may want to leave and none of the world-class status players will be dying to join a non-UCL club that is in poor shape. But here's a thing, I am not sure it's an end of the world. If we get a proper manager with long-term view, I would rather us not buy another prima donna player.

I kindof would love to see a complete rebuild, at this point, with hungry and motivated group of talented, if less known, players who excel as a team and do not possess huge personal "brands". Sick and tired of having an inconsistent team that is a collection of brand players and not really a team.

Do you agree?
 
Yes of course, any team can achieve a turn around

Chelsea did Liverpool did

we need the right man in charge
We need a new midfield duo
We need a new striker
That would do wonders

Long term we need more intelligent players, rashford is a failed striker playing on the wing
AWB is useless

more players like sancho less players like mctom and Fred
 
We're not that far away, but we won't do it until we make some essential tweaks.

Personnel - Accept out expensive failures and move on from them.

We stuck with Martial for ages, we stuck with Pogba for ages, we're doing the same now with Maguire and AWB. We continue to neglect the fact we don't have a CDM. Plenty of clubs make expensive mistakes, they move on. We did it with Lukaku, we should have done it with others too.

We also hang on too long to players who add no value. We do this to varying degrees, from the outright crazy (Periera, Mata, Matic, Jones), to the tried and tested and failed (Rojo, Bailly, Lindelof, Lingard). Take the two centre backs mentioned. They were bought into the club to be first choice centrebacks, it eventually emerges they don't cut the mustard, but we hang onto them, they become squad players, instead of moving them on and replacing them.

The only way our squads level of ability will improve is if we replace those who aren't pushing the first 11 for a spot, or replace those in the first 11 with better players.

Tactics - identity on the pitch. We yo-yo'd from Moyes, to LvG, to Mourinho to Ole who all had very contrasting tactical styles. RR has his own too. Hopefully we can now push him upstairs as a DoF and appoint a manager who will sync with him. We can't coach a different type of football every couple of years.
 
It’s possible but it would take patience coherent scouting, squad building that quality work on the training ground.


We have seen no evidence that this is possible at the club in a decade, all the people who are running at club, including the Arnold and Murtough have been present the entire time. So why on Earth would there suddenly be joined up thinking at the club?

So I don’t think it’s possible unless there are drastic changes to who is running the football side of buissness happens and expertise from outside the club are brought in to run it.
 
Arsenal actually benefitted from being out of Europe for a season.

Missing the occasional season in the champions league isn't the absolute disaster some people always paint it as.
 
Sandikan said:
Arsenal actually benefitted from being out of Europe for a season.

Missing the occasional season in the champions league isn't the absolute disaster some people always paint it as.
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Give me a couple of days watching the lads in Belgrade or Kazakhstan over sitting in work any time thanks.
 
JB7 said:
Give me a couple of days watching the lads in Belgrade or Kazakhstan over sitting in work any time thanks.
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In fairness, the trick is to miss the champs league spectacularly, and come 8th or so, and avoid the Europa, which rucks your league up even more..

Though does give more Sunday games which can be useful if you watch a local team on Saturdays :D
 
Sandikan said:
In fairness, the trick is to miss the champs league spectacularly, and come 8th or so, and avoid the Europa, which rucks your league up even more..

Though does give more Sunday games which can be useful if you watch a local team on Saturdays :D
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I enjoy the randomness of the Europa places tbh. Obviously give me Champions League every time but I’d take some kind of European competition over nothing.

On the bolded though, I feel you here! Had a great few Sat/Sun/Tues/Thurs/Sat/Sun runs over the past few years :lol:
 
Its not a total rebuild. Theres a natural end coming for many in this squad - pogba, lingard, mata, cavani.

without wanting to overhype our youth - we have some decent ones about. Elanga merits a place in the squad, Mejbri looks able, Garner, Laird, Mengi and Bernard have been having solid loans out in the championship. Not saying they will be a class of 92 but will perhaps provide decent squad options. Not like we will have no squad.

if we get the right manager, a midfield and a striker could be striding forwards quite quickly.
 
more hyperbole

Its football lads, things will get better but remember they could get a whole lot worse too. Mosf "fans" still think the team should be operating at Ferguson standards - get a grip. Those days are gone but it is disapointing that even though truck loads of money has been spent that the team doesnt do very well

Manchester United Football Club is gone, its all about the business, so as long as it can prove an attractive commercial proposition the football might get better. Only might.

Us customers need to get used to City and eventually Newcastle winning most of the available "competitions"
 
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McGrathsipan said:
more hyperbole

Its football lads, things will get better but remember they could get a whole lot worse too. Mosf "fans" still think the team should be operating at Ferguson standards - get a grip. Those days are gone but it is disapointing that even thought truck loads of money has been spent that the team doesnt do very well

Manchester United Football Club is gone, its all about the business, so as long as it can prove an attractive commercial proposition the football might get better. Only might.

Us customers need to get used to City and eventually Newcastle winning most of the available "competitions"
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Agree really. we are a soccer sports franchise. We operate on a different plain for different reasons to other teams in the division
 
No UCL probably won’t be the end of the world in terms of recruitment, and if it results in us having to look at a slightly different profile of players it may even be a blessing in disguise.

But we should stop thinking in terms of a “rebuild”. There’s always turnaround in a football team, players joining, players leaving. What we need to do is increasing the quality of the decision-making processes leading to these player movements.
 
JB7 said:
I enjoy the randomness of the Europa places tbh. Obviously give me Champions League every time but I’d take some kind of European competition over nothing.

On the bolded though, I feel you here! Had a great few Sat/Sun/Tues/Thurs/Sat/Sun runs over the past few years :lol:
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Footy watching can be weird at times.
I went to Shrewsbury away with Wycombe midweek and then United the next night.

But other times I'm semi bothered at going 4miles to watch a home midweeker!!
 
Sandikan said:
Footy watching can be weird at times.
I went to Shrewsbury away with Wycombe midweek and then United the next night.

But other times I'm semi bothered at going 4miles to watch a home midweeker!!
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Oh it's great, I did Kettering away Tuesday and Atletico away Wednesday a few weeks ago, I love the contrast and perspectives it gives you to be honest because that was certainly one extreme to the other with the only similarities being two shite performances and two draws. Back In January I did Gateshead away on the Tuesday for a 4-1 loss and Brentford away on the Wednesday for the 3-1 win & there were more people leaving moaning about the performance on the Wednesday night than the Tuesday :lol:

I know the feeling, I wasn't feeling it for yesterday to be honest but it was sure worth it in the end.
 
Sandikan said:
Arsenal actually benefitted from being out of Europe for a season.

Missing the occasional season in the champions league isn't the absolute disaster some people always paint it as.
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My thinking exactly. And they ruthlessly got rid of star-status players with low productivity. Now they have players whose name few have heard before but these are contributing to a much better, more consistent overall team.

Now I don't for a second think Arsenal is back to some great levels, yet. We can still probably beat the crap out of them on our good day (I hope) but I see where they are going, whereas with us—every game is a gamble. Not having any confidence even against the bottom-of-the-league teams and repeatedly getting beaten by them is nerve-wrecking.

I would rather us build a completely new team
with 7-8 lesser-known players than try to keep
patching over current disaster by adding couple brand players every summer.

It does require very good recruitement, that we haven't had in years... but isn't that what RR and EtH are masters of?
 
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Not obtaining champions league football may by default change the clubs transfer strategy over the next 12 months. The bigger ‘names’ will be attracted to other champions league clubs. Our scouting network (whoever they are) will need to unearth talent from smaller unheralded leagues across Europe and even South America. They will really need to earn their crust without champions league football on offer.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
Not obtaining champions league football may by default change the clubs transfer strategy over the next 12 months. The bigger ‘names’ will be attracted to other champions league clubs. Our scouting network (whoever they are) will need to unearth talent from smaller unheralded leagues across Europe and even South America. They will really need to earn their crust without champions league football on offer.
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I disagree with this to a point. We’ve made big signings without CL in the past. We’re Manchester United. We’ll miss out on CL this season, but back in it next season, most likely.
If it does happen as you say, it’s not necessarily a bad thing. We need to improve on more than the regular 1-2 areas most teams look at each season. We need to improve in 7-8 areas! Even if we were in the CL next season, we’re not signing all of those improvements in one window. We need to take a step back from just throwing money at the latest and greatest player that is coming off of a fantastic season and find young, hungry players that will fit the managers style. Case in point, Declan Rice And Harry Kane. It would be a mistake to blow our transfer kitty on those two players and not improve MF, RW,RB, or LB. Not to mentioned CB. Pogab and Matic are leaving. We need to sign two midfielders this season if we don’t want to have to rely on Fred and McTominay every week. Donny will most likely return bit he’s not a defensive MF. This rebuild is going to take a few seasons. Whether it’s ETH or Poch, it will take time.

Players I expect to not be playing for United within 3 seasons, excluding those already leaving this summer.
AWB, Shaw, Jones, Lindelof, Bailey, Martial, Fred, McTominay, Telles, Dalot, Ronaldo, and Rashford.
 
It depends...

A complete rebuild of a structure like this is 4 or 5 years of work.

Patience is thin in the football world.
 
Everyone that was laughing at Arsenal and Arteta need to admit they know sweet feck all about this game.

They but the bullet and refreshed everything over the last 2 or 3 years, brought through loads of youngsters and are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Basically, we need to do what Arsenal have done and what Fergie did many years ago.
 
pocco said:
Everyone that was laughing at Arsenal and Arteta need to admit they know sweet feck all about this game.

They but the bullet and refreshed everything over the last 2 or 3 years, brought through loads of youngsters and are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Basically, we need to do what Arsenal have done and what Fergie did many years ago.
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Light at the end of the tunnel? Battling United and Spurs for 4th, both of whom sacked their managers mid season?

Come off it
 
pocco said:
Everyone that was laughing at Arsenal and Arteta need to admit they know sweet feck all about this game.

They but the bullet and refreshed everything over the last 2 or 3 years, brought through loads of youngsters and are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Basically, we need to do what Arsenal have done and what Fergie did many years ago.
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Arsenal get a sniff at the top 4 for the first time in 5 years and all of a sudden they’ve everything we need to be? What bollocks. Liverpool a far better example.
 
TheReligion said:
Light at the end of the tunnel? Battling United and Spurs for 4th, both of whom sacked their managers mid season?

Come off it
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With a very young set of players, 2 of which look potentially top class. Odegaard looks very good too. You're in denial. They now have the basis for something very good if the ambition is there. There's a reason pundits are comparing them to City.
 
pocco said:
With a very young set of players, 2 of which look potentially top class. Odegaard looks very good too. You're in denial. They now have the basis for something very good if the ambition is there. There's a reason pundits are comparing them to City.
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I’m not in denial, I’m telling you the facts. They are similar points to United and Spurs despite both the other clubs sacking managers and being in crisis.

You’re just jumping to extremes when there’s no need to.
 
Offside said:
Arsenal get a sniff at the top 4 for the first time in 5 years and all of a sudden they’ve everything we need to be? What bollocks. Liverpool a far better example.
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What they have done is what we need to do. Except we have the ability to sign very good players, but we need to cull the dead weight, the players with bad attitude and the overpaid underperformers.
 
It should be done over the next 2 years.

The plan should be 6 new players in summer 2022.
Then 6 new players in summer 2023.
Then 6 new players in summer 2024.

Thats 18 players. The current squad and youth players can fight it out for the last 4 places.
 
Absolutely no need for rebuild. We need proper manager, striker, midfielder (IF Pogba is gone) and dmc for being a team. Sure we can upgrade another position or two but it is not that we have bad players there.
Our season is shit, we had awful manager and players are playing much worse than their real quality is. Many of those players will play much much better next season for new manager.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Absolutely no need for rebuild. We need proper manager, striker, midfielder (IF Pogba is gone) and dmc for being a team. Sure we can upgrade another position or two but it is not that we have bad players there.
Our season is shit, we had awful manager and players are playing much worse than their real quality is. Many of those players will play much much better next season for new manager.
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We need fullbacks, they are all either useless or stupid or lazy. McT would not be near any team of mind.
 
londonredmaniac said:
It depends...

A complete rebuild of a structure like this is 4 or 5 years of work.

Patience is thin in the football world.
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A few years ago I would have agreed, but our current situation has been the norm for almost a decade now. I'd rather have a complete reset at the club right now than more of the same meandering shite and lack of vision/direction that we've been witnessing since the days when I still had hair.
 
A complete rebuild is not possible with the financial restraints we have. Most of our poor players will leave for nothing or next to nothing. At best I reckon we may have 150 million to spend on 3/4 players this summer. That's no different from any other year. We need a replacement for Matic, Pogba, Dalot and Greenwood. That will be it despite 7 or so leaving.
 
So, going through the squad, the likes of Dalot, Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Lindelof, Telles, Shaw, Matic, Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Pogba and Mata, are all way below the standard to challenge for titles.


God we're fcuked.

So much mediocrity needs replacing. This is another 5-10 year project.
 
Martial, Van der Beek, Chong, Amad and Brandon Williams will be like new signings.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Absolutely no need for rebuild. We need proper manager, striker, midfielder (IF Pogba is gone) and dmc for being a team. Sure we can upgrade another position or two but it is not that we have bad players there.
Our season is shit, we had awful manager and players are playing much worse than their real quality is. Many of those players will play much much better next season for new manager.
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We have serious issues at fullback too, I think we need at least a striker, another attacker, DMC, CM (maybe VDB can cover that), and at least one fullback (preferably RB) that's a minimum of 5 this summer. We'll probably need a CB too with Jones and Bailly likely to leave.
There are a few free transfers available this summer so we should really try and get this done.
And Pogba should be gone, it shouldn't be his choice. I'm a big fan of his but he really isn't what we need and he is on big wages that need freeing up.
If we are going down the high energy pressing route then we have to let go of players that do not fit, that includes Ronaldo
 
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