Right Winger... Who do we go for?

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Beachryan said:
Other than being a 'hard worker' what would Willian provide in attacking sense? He barely scores or assists given his position, and also tends to drift towards the middle.

We need balance up top, but that can't be all about workrate. At some point we need actual class. Sanchez maybe, Lukau and Lingard definitely not.

Though a front 4 of Lukaku, Sanchez, Lingard and Willian would be a nightmare for defenders...if we knew how to press as a team. Which is something no Jose team has ever done.
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He's a very strong dribbler, a good long range shooter (generally not a bad finisher really), he's quite quick and looks to play through balls on the overlap a lot, his crossing can be very good too but his dribbling and work rate are his best attributes. He's more of a "link up" winger than the Sanchez type and I think we could do with more of that, if he joins I think he'd have a very good understanding with someone like Lingard.

There might be better options available but he knows the league and manager well, was their only bright spot in the year Mourinho got sacked from Chelsea. He's a big improvement over what we have currently. I wouldn't be against us signing Willian, so long as Chelsea don't get Martial in return.
 
Fer said:
Dani Alves has a bad injury, that's why I don't see PSG selling Meunier. But I agree about Mahrez, he should be playing in a top team. Unfortunately, I think he will go to City.
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Yeah I forgot about his injury, I have no idea how long he is out and he is a bit old, but it all depends on Meunier right? I mean he can't be happy with the bench this season and he is a Utd fan so if we come knocking he would have to think hard about it, of course other options might be easier to obtain but I feel we should try with him, knows Lukaku as well and connects well with him for the national team.
 
I would be quite happy with Willian, especially if (as one piece I read today suggested) we're looking for a relatively short term signing with Tahith Chong in mind. As with Matic last summer he would immediately fill a slot in our team that clearly needs filling, which in turn would allow the team to function better. Which is fine by me given Mourinho has made clear this summer's focus will not be on improving our attack anyway.

I have no real hope of us having an exciting, creative team with flair players under Mourinho. I'm just hoping we end up with a high-functioning functional team. In that scenario signing a few workhorses is inevitable, so why waste energy complaining? This is the manager we have.
 
Would take Willian if we promoted Chong to get say 10 appearances in cups and the like. Otherwise would prefer others.
 
Beachryan said:
Other than being a 'hard worker' what would Willian provide in attacking sense? He barely scores or assists given his position, and also tends to drift towards the middle.

We need balance up top, but that can't be all about workrate. At some point we need actual class. Sanchez maybe, Lukau and Lingard definitely not.

Though a front 4 of Lukaku, Sanchez, Lingard and Willian would be a nightmare for defenders...if we knew how to press as a team. Which is something no Jose team has ever done.
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Sanchez is class but he isn’t performing because we don’t have balance, that’s the point. You can sign as many class players as you want but if there’s no balance they won’t play well. Everyone thought signing Sanchez was great before we got him, everyone thought this was the quality we needed. Same with Mikhi, we have no balance and if we get quality players who don’t give us balance they will not perform and will struggle like Sanchez, mkhi and Martial - those are all quality players it’s not that they stopped being good it’s thag we don’t have balance
 
Lash said:
Would take Willian if we promoted Chong to get say 10 appearances in cups and the like. Otherwise would prefer others.
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They don't play the same position so I don't understand the logic behind this.
 
Saf94 said:
Sanchez is class but he isn’t performing because we don’t have balance, that’s the point. You can sign as many class players as you want but if there’s no balance they won’t play well. Everyone thought signing Sanchez was great before we got him, everyone thought this was the quality we needed. Same with Mikhi, we have no balance and if we get quality players who don’t give us balance they will not perform and will struggle like Sanchez, mkhi and Martial - those are all quality players it’s not that they stopped being good it’s thag we don’t have balance
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What does that even mean,"We don't have balance"?
 
Greizmann. I don't care if he don't play RW. Change our system. He's allegedly on a €100M release clause. I'd even argue we should buy him for €200M (£175M).
 
Joseunited said:
What does that even mean,"We don't have balance"?
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Well I did a long post a little bit earlier today in this thread but I’ll TLDR

To break teams down you need a good mix of horizontal/vertical movement, playmaking and players in the box who can get on the end of chances and score goals. If your attacking 3/4 (+ wingbacks if you play them) don’t give you those qualities you don’t have balance.

For example if you have no one making vertical runs from deep then the opposition can push high and be compact and not worry about players getting in behind. Likewise if you have no width then the opposition can defend narrow and compact in the middle and make it difficult for you to break through the middle.

Right now we don’t have balance mainly in the areas of vertical movement, width and to a lesser extent players who can score. What we have in abundance is players who like to playmake - Pogba, Sanchez, Lingard, Mata, Martial - these are all players who like to drift into the no 10 area and play in front of the defence. It means we don’t have enough runners pulling apart the defence and creating space and we also don’t have width to stretch the defence. This is why Lingard has been so huge for us because he can do this and why Lukaku has made a massive difference because Ibra was another playmaker type and Lukaku isn’t so he gives us more balance and helps to create space.

So in summary if we don’t sign players who have good movement or give us good width our attack will continue to struggle regardless of how good the players we sign are
 
John Blund said:
Greizmann. I don't care if he don't play RW. Change our system. He's allegedly on a €100M release clause. I'd even argue we should buy him for €200M (£175M).
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3-5-2? :drool:

De Gea
Bailly Alderweireld Rojo
Meunier Matic Pogba Sandro
Sanchez
Griezmann Lukaku
​
Don't think we can compete with Barcelona for his signature though.
 
If Ousmane Dembele is available we should try for him but I suspect he wont want to play in Mourinho's boring defensive system. Liverpool are reportedly heavily interested and I think he migt prefer to play under Klopp, however in our favour is that he would be a garunteed starter for us as we have no RW whereas he would be competing with Salah at Liverpool.
 
Coman > Mahrez > Soler > Willian.

Willian isn’t even a proper winger who sticks to the line, stretching the oppo which is something the team currently lacks. If he wants that kind of player though, Soler at Valencia is absolutely identical, likely cheaper and has a higher ceiling and much longer shelf life.

Additional benefits of signing Coman and Soler, beyond longevity, is that if Chong does break through as the real deal, Coman can play on the left with equal brilliance, while Soler can play central as well.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
3-5-2? :drool:

De Gea
Bailly Alderweireld Rojo
Meunier Matic Pogba Sandro
Sanchez
Griezmann Lukaku
​
Don't think we can compete with Barcelona for his signature though.
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Dybala would be great in that formation. He can play as striker, or behind Lukaku and Sanchez.
Alos, I would sign a player like Fred, Jorginho or Neves to rotate with Matic/Pogba.
 
Fer said:
Dybala would be great in that formation. He can play as striker, or behind Lukaku and Sanchez.
Alos, I would sign a player like Fred, Jorginho or Neves to rotate with Matic/Pogba.
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Does Dybala have the work rate to play in advanced midfield position? Agree about the defensive midfield targets, any of the three would be great.
 
Beachryan said:
Other than being a 'hard worker' what would Willian provide in attacking sense? He barely scores or assists given his position
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Willian has 9 goals and 11 assists in 2312 PL and CL minutes for Chelsea this season. That's 115 minutes per goal/assist. Sanchez has 2 goals and 3 assists in 1133 PL and CL minutes for United this season. That's 226 minutes per goal/assist. I wish Sanchez were as productive for United, given his position.
 
I hope we loan Dembele with an option to buy him..... He would be a terrific RW for us. He's one of the few dying wingers who actually provides width.
 
beingshe7don said:
I hope we loan Dembele with an option to buy him..... He would be a terrific RW for us. He's one of the few dying wingers who actually provides width.
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IMO there are a lot of players who can provide width. For example: Pulisic, Malcom, Leon Bailey, Guedes, Gelson Martins, Douglas Costa, Coman, Mahrez, Neres, among others.

But I agree that Dembele would be the best RW we could get if he becomes available.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
Does Dybala have the work rate to play in advanced midfield position? Agree about the defensive midfield targets, any of the three would be great.
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He starts the attack from deep. But he doesn't have the work rate of Sanchez.

I still believe Mou will play 433. Alderweireld, Sandro, Fred/SMS and William as his main targets.
 
IMO, Willian gets United to the day Chong arrives. Younger choices block Chong's arrival.
 
yo@Kirk said:
IMO, Willian gets United to the day Chong arrives. Younger choices block Chong's arrival.
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Not really. If Chong has the talent to shine. He could easily knock Willian off his perch.

Chong can play on the left and right, so that's good.

I've always wanted Dembele at United. Hopefully, Griezmann going to Barca can free Dembele to be loaned or bought
 
Sad state of affairs if we sign Willian, 3 or 4 years ago fair enough but not now.
 
Saf94 said:
Well I did a long post a little bit earlier today in this thread but I’ll TLDR

To break teams down you need a good mix of horizontal/vertical movement, playmaking and players in the box who can get on the end of chances and score goals. If your attacking 3/4 (+ wingbacks if you play them) don’t give you those qualities you don’t have balance.

For example if you have no one making vertical runs from deep then the opposition can push high and be compact and not worry about players getting in behind. Likewise if you have no width then the opposition can defend narrow and compact in the middle and make it difficult for you to break through the middle.

Right now we don’t have balance mainly in the areas of vertical movement, width and to a lesser extent players who can score. What we have in abundance is players who like to playmake - Pogba, Sanchez, Lingard, Mata, Martial - these are all players who like to drift into the no 10 area and play in front of the defence. It means we don’t have enough runners pulling apart the defence and creating space and we also don’t have width to stretch the defence. This is why Lingard has been so huge for us because he can do this and why Lukaku has made a massive difference because Ibra was another playmaker type and Lukaku isn’t so he gives us more balance and helps to create space.

So in summary if we don’t sign players who have good movement or give us good width our attack will continue to struggle regardless of how good the players we sign are
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Right on... our attacking is too static if you ask me. A lot of ball watching, not enough runs and off the ball movement to stretch defenses.

Players need to be willing to move even if they won’t get the ball passed to them; it opens defenses up
 
Willian would be an excellent signing and would add a serious threat on the right side of the pitch. We need experience certificate in the team.
 
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Jose's madly in love with Willian...

I got no problems with his technique. But my concern is his end product. He averages something like 5 goals per season, not sure if that makes him a winger version of Welbeck. We need a goal scorer there.
 
True winger is dead, jose do not use that position either, what we need is wide strikers
 
AP88 said:
Coman > Mahrez > Soler > Willian.

Willian isn’t even a proper winger who sticks to the line, stretching the oppo which is something the team currently lacks. If he wants that kind of player though, Soler at Valencia is absolutely identical, likely cheaper and has a higher ceiling and much longer shelf life.

Additional benefits of signing Coman and Soler, beyond longevity, is that if Chong does break through as the real deal, Coman can play on the left with equal brilliance, while Soler can play central as well.
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A few questions.
How is Coman > Mahrez, a guy who came out of nowhere to lead his relegation threatened team to the PL title winning Player of the Year in the process? What has Coman done to be currently regarded as better than Mahrez?

Secondly Carlos Soler > Willian? Like the Soler of Valencia?
What exactly is that observation based on?
He's not even a starter for Valencia.
And he has 4 assists and 0 goals this season compared to Willians 12 goals and 8 assists.

If these claims are made saying they could be better than Mahrez and Willian in a few years, that too is an assumption. We never know how young players progress.
I am not against buying a player with great potential but right now Coman is not better than Mahrez and Soler is not better than Willian.
 
This place needs to stop thinking that potential always outweighs current quality. Because more often than not, players don’t match up to their early promise and don’t fulfil their potential.
 
I have watched at least 3/4 games where Willian looked so tired after just 65 mins. yes, he works hard in the pitch but still I expect him to last longer than that.
 
Judas said:
This place needs to stop thinking that potential always outweighs current quality. Because more often than not, players don’t match up to their early promise and don’t fulfil their potential.
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Not to mention players deteriorate at different rates, in the same way they get better at different rates. There's no lack of quality for players who are 30 or older. Messi (30), Ronaldo (33), Sergio Ramos (32), Modric (32), Marcelo (30), Dani Alves (35) are probably the best players in the world in their positions and then you have a long list of others such as Pepe (haven't seen him at Besiktas but was great till the end for Real when he was 34), Thiago Motta, Fernandinho, Ribery, Cavani, David Silva etc etc who have all been performing at a high level from early to mid 30s.
 
Sanche7 said:
A few questions.
How is Coman > Mahrez, a guy who came out of nowhere to lead his relegation threatened team to the PL title winning Player of the Year in the process? What has Coman done to be currently regarded as better than Mahrez?

Secondly Carlos Soler > Willian? Like the Soler of Valencia?
What exactly is that observation based on?
He's not even a starter for Valencia.
And he has 4 assists and 0 goals this season compared to Willians 12 goals and 8 assists.

If these claims are made saying they could be better than Mahrez and Willian in a few years, that too is an assumption. We never know how young players progress.
I am not against buying a player with great potential but right now Coman is not better than Mahrez and Soler is not better than Willian.
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Firstly, the right wing addition isn’t just to personally rack up goals and assists; it’s about stretching the opposition to create more space for Lukaku, Sanchez etc to exploit through the middle. Secondly, Coman can easily hit double figures in both columns if he stays fit in a woeful modern Premier League. I love Mahrez (have advocated his signing on a number of separate occasions) but don’t think he’s a Jose player, otherwise he’d have targeted him by now.

Willian has been playing more inverted at Chelsea inside their wingback, not sure he’d be as productive in the position available to him here wider right. Again, I like the player, but don’t see what he offers on terms of solving the width issue.
 
AP88 said:
Firstly, the right wing addition isn’t just to personally rack up goals and assists; it’s about stretching the opposition to create more space for Lukaku, Sanchez etc to exploit through the middle. Secondly, Coman can easily hit double figures in both columns if he stays fit in a woeful modern Premier League. I love Mahrez (have advocated his signing on a number of separate occasions) but don’t think he’s a Jose player, otherwise he’d have targeted him by now.

Willian has been playing more inverted at Chelsea inside their wingback, not sure he’d be as productive in the position available to him here wider right. Again, I like the player, but don’t see what he offers on terms of solving the width issue.
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right wing addition isn’t just to personally rack up goals and assists - tell that to Salah

Coman can easily hit double figures - maybe he can but he currently plays for a team which is more superior than any other team in their league. He still has a very good 9 assists and 5 goals but easily hit double figures is again an assumption.
Also he is not available, Bayern just signed him and they never sell their best players.

Here's a comparison between Willian and a few other potential RW Targets :
http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m..._created/tackles_won/goals_from_set_pieces#90

I don't have much of an idea where Willian plays but Whoscored says he started as AMC in many matches. But he has almost equal number of goals and assists playing as a RW.
Also look at his heat map vs Barca, where he was their best player.

 
Judas said:
This place needs to stop thinking that potential always outweighs current quality. Because more often than not, players don’t match up to their early promise and don’t fulfil their potential.
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This x10000.
 
As @Raoul has mentioned previously, Costa would be electrifying here. Exactly what we need and I said the same thing last year before Juve signed him.
 
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