Right Winger... Who do we go for?

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settembrini said:
Been poking around on whoscored.com this evening looking at stats for various right wing options and here are some random thoughts:
6. Suso is underrated. He gets tackled a lot but is good to great at everything else. Judged solely on this season's stats he has outperformed all the other right wingers I've named so far. I wonder why there is less hype about him. Considering his performances and the fact he counts at home grown I would have expected more paper talk about him returning to the PL.
7. Sancho has been unreal. If there was a gap between Suso and the rest (and there was) then the gap between Sancho and Suso is even bigger. Firstly he was the most productive player I looked at by a distance (a goal or assist every 80 minutes) plus he was the best dribbler by a distance and if that's not enough he was also one of the best passers. Plus he doesn't really seem to have any significant weaknesses. Plus he's at least three years younger than anyone else I looked at. He's a freak.
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I've been doing the same, and I completely agree with these two as the standout options. Behind them I think Pepe and T. Hazard also looks like great improvements. But if Sancho is available for €100m, I think thats a better deal than any of the other for €50-60m. Suso will have a release clause of €38m in the summer, that would be a no-brainer. Both Liverpool and Chelsea have been linked, but with Pulisic to Chelsea and a player like Salah to combat in Liverpool I think we should have a good chance.

Dybala is a great Second Striker/Attacking Midfielder, but on the right side he never plays good. And the price will be too high to play him out of position.

Of the younger and cheaper (should be) options I think Cengiz Under looks interesting, same with Saint-Maximin and Bailey. But I'd rather give Chong a chance first than spend €30m-40m on one of these.
 
Shaw Mee Tah Mané said:
I've been doing the same, and I completely agree with these two as the standout options. Behind them I think Pepe and T. Hazard also looks like great improvements. But if Sancho is available for €100m, I think thats a better deal than any of the other for €50-60m. Suso will have a release clause of €38m in the summer, that would be a no-brainer. Both Liverpool and Chelsea have been linked, but with Pulisic to Chelsea and a player like Salah to combat in Liverpool I think we should have a good chance.
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I didn't realise that Suso had a release clause. Apparently it's only active in the summer and for non-Italian teams.

I remember Liverpool fans hyping him up when he came through their ranks and it seemed like he wouldn't reach their expectations but it's clear he has developed significantly at Milan.

He has 5 goals + 8 assists this season in 20 games. That's a healthy level of productivity by itself and even more so when you consider the team he is playing for. Milan's other attackers are a joke, they are the second lowest scorers in the top half of serie A and his output alone is equal to the combined output of their next three most productive players. That's absurd.

His 81% passing accuracy is decent but his key pass rate rate of 2.8 per game is extraordinary. For comparison Dybala has 2.3, Sancho has 1.8, Mata has 1.1. This explains how he is leading serie A in terms of assists despite playing with no other elite attackers.

His biggest downside is that he is not especially fast and while he does successfully dribble past opposition players at a good rate only Pepe was dispossessed more times per game. As long as he is producing the goods that is fine but we saw with Sanchez last season how frustrating it can be to have an attacker who isn't scoring/assisting and is just getting tackled all the time.

Overall you have to say he would be a smart signing. He would be a significant improvement on Mata as a left footed playmaker on the wing and the fact that he counts as home grown plus would only cost £33m are huge points in his favour.

@sideshow_bob I might look at those players you named at some point but am too lazy too for now :)
 
settembrini said:
Been poking around on whoscored.com this evening looking at stats for various right wing options and here are some random thoughts:

1. Chiesa is overhyped. Passing accuracy, poor touches per game, tackled per game, goals + assists productivity... he's underperforming in multiple important categories.
2. Stick a fork in Bale, he's done. Without his pace his stats look like Mata's. If you want your winger to recycle possession then he's fine, if you want someone beating defenders, getting assists, scoring goals, look elsewhere.
3. Ligue 1 has a bunch of good right wingers who aren't quite elite. Pepe and Thauvin are exciting and productive but very weak in possession. Bertrand Traore beats them both in a bunch of categories but is let down by a lack of creativity, low key pass rate and just one assist all season.
4. Cengiz Under isn't a big enough improvement on Mata to be worth buying. He's good at keeping possession but nothing special outside outside of that.
5. Dybala is still a class player who does well many categories but the drop in his goal return this season is crazy. Possibly a victim of Juventus rebuilding around Ronaldo?
6. Suso is underrated. He gets tackled a lot but is good to great at everything else. Judged solely on this season's stats he has outperformed all the other right wingers I've named so far. I wonder why there is less hype about him. Considering his performances and the fact he counts at home grown I would have expected more paper talk about him returning to the PL.
7. Sancho has been unreal. If there was a gap between Suso and the rest (and there was) then the gap between Sancho and Suso is even bigger. Firstly he was the most productive player I looked at by a distance (a goal or assist every 80 minutes) plus he was the best dribbler by a distance and if that's not enough he was also one of the best passers. Plus he doesn't really seem to have any significant weaknesses. Plus he's at least three years younger than anyone else I looked at. He's a freak.
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Good summary. It's between Sancho and Suso then. I think we should go all out for Sancho. I'm hoping Ole stays on as permanent manager. With him at the helm, Sancho will know that he'll get to be a regular starter and we'll play a style that will suit him perfectly. Dortmund will demand something crazy like 150m I guess. If we can get them to agree to 100m, then we should do it.
 
But how can you be sure that a player from the BundesLiga will perform in the EPL?
Fred was good in the Champions League and is nowhere as good in the EPL, and there where lots of players playing good for the NT but then show nothing for the club, can now only remember Poborsky but sure there were more.
 
Leon Bailey is my pick, an intense winger like Sane/Mbappe, very direct with very quick feet and likes to run in behind. He is the kind of winger we need, yes he isn't on fire right now but I think it's because he's out on the left, not his favoured right. Reminds me of Robben how he can easily cut in on his left and launch a rocket. front 3 of Martial - Rashford - Bailey is devastating
 
Shaw Mee Tah Mané said:
I've been doing the same, and I completely agree with these two as the standout options. Behind them I think Pepe and T. Hazard also looks like great improvements. But if Sancho is available for €100m, I think thats a better deal than any of the other for €50-60m. Suso will have a release clause of €38m in the summer, that would be a no-brainer. Both Liverpool and Chelsea have been linked, but with Pulisic to Chelsea and a player like Salah to combat in Liverpool I think we should have a good chance.

Dybala is a great Second Striker/Attacking Midfielder, but on the right side he never plays good. And the price will be too high to play him out of position.

Of the younger and cheaper (should be) options I think Cengiz Under looks interesting, same with Saint-Maximin and Bailey. But I'd rather give Chong a chance first than spend €30m-40m on one of these.
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Nice post, but with Dybala we could play an asymetric system in the attacking line, with an offensiv right fullback.
Suso should not be an option for the starting XI. Nur for that price he would be a nice squad player. But do we need that?
Sancho is amazing. But did someone here some statements from him about United, because he comes from City?
 
DarkRed said:
But how can you be sure that a player from the BundesLiga will perform in the EPL?
Fred was good in the Champions League and is nowhere as good in the EPL, and there where lots of players playing good for the NT but then show nothing for the club, can now only remember Poborsky but sure there were more.
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Look no further than Mkhi

Sancho looks a top player but buying him would be a huge risk given he'd be minimum £100m, we don't play like Dortmund and the PL is a lot faster (according to players). Whilst City were silly for letting him go, there's a reason he couldn't get in their team and yet is tearing it up in the Bundesliga, it is a different style of football.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Saw this today:

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/31/manc...-approach-dortmund-star-jadon-sancho-8418368/

We have right wingers only slightly younger than Sancho about to break through. Perhaps we should send one on loan to Dortmund to develop for a year?
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Exactly this. Buying some world class winger who would bring 20+ goals is one thing but spending big on some kid ( Sancho looks great, don't get me wrong) while having Chong doesn't make any sense.

Many here mention Dybala. Can he even play there?
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Exactly this. Buying some world class winger who would bring 20+ goals is one thing but spending big on some kid ( Sancho looks great, don't get me wrong) while having Chong doesn't make any sense.

Many here mention Dybala. Can he even play there?
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He's only actually scored goals in the CL, otherwise his goal return this season has been underwhelming.
 
It would be daft to turn our noses up at a player who is so good right now in Sancho, in the hope that Chong makes it, because there's no guarantees and he's still a way off being first team ready. If you're good enough, you'll break through, especially at a club like ours who value youth and gives them a chance. To say "some kid" about a player who at 18 is playing first team football and a big part of the reason Bayern's stranglehold on the German league is probably going to be broken this year is pretty disrespectful. It's far more appropriate to call Chong "some kid" as he has everything to prove still.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Sancho is just as quick and skilful as Pepe, he would just be much more expensive.

Apparently Pepe did an interview last year saying the only premier league club he would join is Chelsea. Whether he would really mean that though if the option came..

I’d love a group of martial/sancho/Lingard/Rashford/Pogba to drive us forward.
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Sancho as quick as Pepe...you do you.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Exactly this. Buying some world class winger who would bring 20+ goals is one thing but spending big on some kid ( Sancho looks great, don't get me wrong) while having Chong doesn't make any sense.

Many here mention Dybala. Can he even play there?
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I'm convinced he would struggle in the PL unless he played as an SS, which isn't really suited to us. He's a wonderfully gifted technical attacker but our RW needs to be someone who can stay wide, take people on and won't drift inside to much which will free up space for Martial and Rashford.

Can you imagine how much harder we'd be to defend against if it was a front three of Martial - Rashford - Mane (for example)
 
Judas said:
It would be daft to turn our noses up at a player who is so good right now in Sancho, in the hope that Chong makes it, because there's no guarantees and he's still a way off being first team ready. If you're good enough, you'll break through, especially at a club like ours who value youth and gives them a chance. To say "some kid" about a player who at 18 is playing first team football and a big part of the reason Bayern's stranglehold on the German league is probably going to be broken this year is pretty disrespectful. It's far more appropriate to call Chong "some kid" as he has everything to prove still.
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Does he possess the engine and tenacity in him at this age? I think he is too light weight right now and will be shrugged of the ball easily
 
It's interesting how diverse the opinions are here, from the eye debate over which player is faster, to the obsession some have with touchline huggers vs inverted wingers, if we had a decent RB we wouldn't need the former. I'll never get the worry about a player coming from another league and not being able to perform though, Hazard, de Bruyne, the Silva's and Sanchez came here from other leagues and have been brilliany as have our own Martial and Pogba, and we have bought failures from within the PL before as well, there's no certainty's with any transfer, and if we stick to buying just PL players we'll end up wasting money on Zaha a second time.
 
Judas said:
It would be daft to turn our noses up at a player who is so good right now in Sancho, in the hope that Chong makes it, because there's no guarantees and he's still a way off being first team ready. If you're good enough, you'll break through, especially at a club like ours who value youth and gives them a chance. To say "some kid" about a player who at 18 is playing first team football and a big part of the reason Bayern's stranglehold on the German league is probably going to be broken this year is pretty disrespectful. It's far more appropriate to call Chong "some kid" as he has everything to prove still.
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You are sticking to one word. Yes i said "some kid" but not on the way how you translated. But nevermind that. For me it is naive to talk about Sancho like you do. He is talented player but what did he do that special so far that you can talk about him like he is some proven world class winger? This is his first year that he plays first team football. In Germany which is a dream league for attacking players.
Yes, i like him also but i would rather wait on Chong and see what will happen there than spend at least 60-70 mil on Sancho.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Exactly this. Buying some world class winger who would bring 20+ goals is one thing but spending big on some kid ( Sancho looks great, don't get me wrong) while having Chong doesn't make any sense.

Many here mention Dybala. Can he even play there?
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Except Chong isn't on the level of Sancho, who was described as a star even when coming up the youth ranks. So the two aren't really comparable imo. Plus buying the "World Class" players seems harder and harder nowadays, with top clubs not willing to sell until the player is basically past their prime, along with the guys who are tearing it up on a smaller team being very risky. I prefer buying younger players who are on the verge of that level as opposed to overpaying for a name who is probably past his best (aka Sanchez).
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I'm convinced he would struggle in the PL unless he played as an SS, which isn't really suited to us. He's a wonderfully gifted technical attacker but our RW needs to be someone who can stay wide, take people on and won't drift inside to much which will free up space for Martial and Rashford.

Can you imagine how much harder we'd be to defend against if it was a front three of Martial - Rashford - Mane (for example)
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Then Douglas Costa is imo top 3 at 1v1's
 
Devil may care said:
It's interesting how diverse the opinions are here, from the eye debate over which player is faster, to the obsession some have with touchline huggers vs inverted wingers, if we had a decent RB we wouldn't need the former. I'll never get the worry about a player coming from another league and not being able to perform though, Hazard, de Bruyne, the Silva's and Sanchez came here from other leagues and have been brilliany as have our own Martial and Pogba, and we have bought failures from within the PL before as well, there's no certainty's with any transfer, and if we stick to buying just PL players we'll end up wasting money on Zaha a second time.
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There are also cases like Memphis, Morata, Mkh, dimaria who have struggled to find feet in the league. A big money move for a 19 year old kid who might not have physically reached the level required albeit very talented possesses some risk as big money move involves all the pressures that come with it in this Epl environment and the club environment.
 
Patrick08 said:
There are also cases like Memphis, Morata, Mkh, dimaria who have struggled to find feet in the league. A big money move for a 19 year old kid who might not have physically reached the level required albeit very talented possesses some risk as big money move involves all the pressures that come with it in this Epl environment and the club environment.
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There are risk factors with any player, some physical, others mental, some character related, and the move to Manchester United can be difficult regardless of how big a proven star you are, there's a scrutiny here that only comes with 2 or 3 other clubs. I know you're referring directly to Sancho here but I was just commenting in general about this worry some seem to have over buying any player from another league, the "PL proven" line is trotted out so often but isn't really relevant as the step to United requires players with an intangible quality, it's not about which league they've performed well in as there's a scrap heap of players from over the years that have moved within the PL to us and Liverpool and sank without trace.
 
AgentP said:
Good summary. It's between Sancho and Suso then. I think we should go all out for Sancho. I'm hoping Ole stays on as permanent manager. With him at the helm, Sancho will know that he'll get to be a regular starter and we'll play apa style that will suit him perfectly. Dortmund will demand something crazy like 150m I guess. If we can get them to agree to 100m, then we should do it.
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If Coutinho and Dembele cost Barca around 150 then Sancho would cost around that much. We can offset the cost by offloading Lukaku for around 50m. Sancho is worth that much to us imo. We havent had a proper winger in years and he has it all.

Martial - Rashford - Sancho is a frontline that would cause defenders nightmares, they are rapid, can beat their man, interchange positions and score.
 
Martial - Rashford - Sancho as a front three would really get us back up there..
 
Andycoleno9 said:
You are sticking to one word. Yes i said "some kid" but not on the way how you translated. But nevermind that. For me it is naive to talk about Sancho like you do. He is talented player but what did he do that special so far that you can talk about him like he is some proven world class winger? This is his first year that he plays first team football. In Germany which is a dream league for attacking players.
Yes, i like him also but i would rather wait on Chong and see what will happen there than spend at least 60-70 mil on Sancho.
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You're overrating Chong. Not only is Sancho younger and doing it at first team level, he was also better at youth level. On a technical skill level, not even a contest. I like Chong too. I can see Chong being a good player to have on the squad and he plays differently from Sancho so he's a good option to have. But there is no way you can prioritize him over someone like Sancho. I think Chong is someone who is going to mature later so he should be brought along slowly. He's a very direct player who plays on fast forward all the time, but that leaves him vulnerable to shoulder to shoulders with much stronger and heavier defenders.
 
In Rainbows said:
You're overrating Chong. Not only is Sancho younger and doing it at first team level, he was also better at youth level. On a technical skill level, not even a contest. I like Chong too. I can see Chong being a good player to have on the squad and he plays differently from Sancho so he's a good option to have. But there is no way you can prioritize him over someone like Sancho. I think Chong is someone who is going to mature later so he should be brought along slowly. He's a very direct player who plays on fast forward all the time, but that leaves him vulnerable to shoulder to shoulders with much stronger and heavier defenders.
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It is not about overrating Chong or underrating Sancho (who i like also). Now it is not a contest. Sancho is far better player than Chong and Sancho ( probably) would be huge upgrade to this squad. Just thinking like this; you have two young players. One is gamble and would cost 60,70, 80 mil( who knows?) and other is totally unproven but free. So why gamble now? Lets wait one year. Yes, next year his price might be 100 mil but again, next year maybe we will know more about Chong.

I am not in " lets give young players a chance at all cost" brigade but if you have one really good and talented prospect, you must give him a chance.
 
Was actually saying to a mate it would be interesting to see Adnan, Depay and Zaha under Ole. I though Adnana or Zaha would look decent on the RW. I think all three of them would look better as well if they were playing under Ole.

What do you think?
 
Andycoleno9 said:
It is not about overrating Chong or underrating Sancho (who i like also). Now it is not a contest. Sancho is far better player than Chong and Sancho ( probably) would be huge upgrade to this squad. Just thinking like this; you have two young players. One is gamble and would cost 60,70, 80 mil( who knows?) and other is totally unproven but free. So why gamble now? Lets wait one year. Yes, next year his price might be 100 mil but again, next year maybe we will know more about Chong.

I am not in " lets give young players a chance at all cost" brigade but if you have one really good and talented prospect, you must give him a chance.
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If you are talking about some other random young winger then you can call it gamble. But Sancho is on different level and talent compare to Chong, Chong might not even make it here. If Sancho is available then we should go for him, I think Sancho will fit United under Ole, if he’s not available then we can always wait another season. He’s a type of player who focuses more in creating chances than scoring goals that will benefit for our striker and our left winger. We will have two creative player to create our chances through the middle by Pogba and through wide area by Sancho.
 
If we are talking spending £100m on a player which Sancho will probably cost, I'd rather spend it on Dembele who is on a different level completely to Sancho. I believe he is gettable too considering his isn't realy first choice over Coutinho, saying that when he does play he is electric. I do think Pogba and even Martial could play a part, that would be our front 3 set for years.

Front 3 of:
Martial - Rashford - Dembele is imo way way more frightening
vs
Martial - Rashford - Sancho who still might need another season at BVB to continue to get to the next level
 
Cheekiey said:
If we are talking spending £100m on a player which Sancho will probably cost, I'd rather spend it on Dembele who is on a different level completely to Sancho. I believe he is gettable too considering his isn't realy first choice over Coutinho, saying that when he does play he is electric. I do think Pogba and even Martial could play a part, that would be our front 3 set for years.

Front 3 of:
Martial - Rashford - Dembele is imo way way more frightening
vs
Martial - Rashford - Sancho who still might need another season at BVB to continue to get to the next level
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I think the Sancho v Dembele debate is really interesting, both are clearly talented, Dembele has more experience, IMO Sancho looks to carry more of a goal threat whereas Dembele provides more assists ? Not sure who is the most attainable but I'm pretty sure we would'nt be the only ones interested, Dembele would probably cost us more but both would be a club record fee.
I think the tie breaker is 'which one would suit our system best assuming we play a front 3 with Martial & Rashford ?
I know it's irrational but I'd prefer Sancho just to get one over on City, both players look like potential world beaters so either would be welcome.
 
Kidders said:
I think the Sancho v Dembele debate is really interesting, both are clearly talented, Dembele has more experience, IMO Sancho looks to carry more of a goal threat whereas Dembele provides more assists ? Not sure who is the most attainable but I'm pretty sure we would'nt be the only ones interested, Dembele would probably cost us more but both would be a club record fee.
I think the tie breaker is 'which one would suit our system best assuming we play a front 3 with Martial & Rashford ?
I know it's irrational but I'd prefer Sancho just to get one over on City, both players look like potential world beaters so either would be welcome.
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I'd say it's the other way around Dembele offers more of a direct goal threat who is more ruthless in his way going past players and scoring whereas Sancho uses his trickery more so than out speed to beat the player and score/assist.

For our style of play (or the direction Ole is taking us) I think Dembele would suit us on the right. His game is more like Rahsfords in his raw outright speed is scary combined with his movement and body faints, you just don't know which way he'll go because he's good with either foot. Sancho would also work but for me not be as ruthless, he isn't a slow player but not as quick as Dembele. I just think he won't be as direct as Rashford or Dembele, he is more like Mahrez in the way he can go past players with his dribbling.

Your'e right that if Dembele was 'up for sale' there would be competition all over, which other top champions league side can offer a guaranteed starting 11 spot though? We'd also probably top anyone else in terms of wages.

For me it's Dembele.
 
Cheekiey said:
I'd say it's the other way around Dembele offers more of a direct goal threat who is more ruthless in his way going past players and scoring whereas Sancho uses his trickery more so than out speed to beat the player and score/assist.

For our style of play (or the direction Ole is taking us) I think Dembele would suit us on the right. His game is more like Rahsfords in his raw outright speed is scary combined with his movement and body faints, you just don't know which way he'll go because he's good with either foot. Sancho would also work but for me not be as ruthless, he isn't a slow player but not as quick as Dembele. I just think he won't be as direct as Rashford or Dembele, he is more like Mahrez in the way he can go past players with his dribbling.

Your'e right that if Dembele was 'up for sale' there would be competition all over, which other top champions league side can offer a guaranteed starting 11 spot though? We'd also probably top anyone else in terms of wages.

For me it's Dembele.
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All good points mate, I would'nt argue with any of them as its down to opinions, give me either and I think it could work, I just can't get past a vision of Sancho scoring a winning goal at the Emptyhad !
 
Sancho

Imagine having Martial, Rashford and Sancho as front 3... support by Pogba behind
 
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