You are supposed to be a moderator here are you not? Why are you spamming a thread about technology with your subjective crap about what game is better than another game? GB created a thread for that in this very forum. You should know better.
Right! My new Cell, RSX, SCC, PS3 thoughts...
- Thread starter WeasteDevil
- Start date
You are supposed to be a moderator here are you not? Why are you spamming a thread about technology with your subjective crap about what game is better than another game? GB created a thread for that in this very forum. You should know better.
Because you spent your time spamming gaming threads with your subjective crap when you were an admin Weaste.....
You derailed most threads with the same rubbish so you can put up with a couple of my posts. Not to mention I was actually replying to a post which I thought was wrong.
Also, you were clearly using those images to show that the PS2 had on par or superior graphics to the Wii, you were using images to show that. You then continued the 'argument' by bringing in the PS3 into the mix for no apparent reason and you used a pre-rendered image of GT:HD on the PS3 to show-up the wii's graphics on some rubbish game.
It seems like you should know better. Oh, and spamming Weaste? It was one damn post replying to someone. The other two posts were highlighting flaws in your posts. Don't be so sensitive.
You derailed most threads with the same rubbish so you can put up with a couple of my posts. Not to mention I was actually replying to a post which I thought was wrong.
Also, you were clearly using those images to show that the PS2 had on par or superior graphics to the Wii, you were using images to show that. You then continued the 'argument' by bringing in the PS3 into the mix for no apparent reason and you used a pre-rendered image of GT:HD on the PS3 to show-up the wii's graphics on some rubbish game.
It seems like you should know better. Oh, and spamming Weaste? It was one damn post replying to someone. The other two posts were highlighting flaws in your posts. Don't be so sensitive.
The point here Hectic is that this thread, look at the title, was supposed to be about Cell based technology. Now, I don't have a Technology foum in which to discuss these matters, and if I posted a problem about a broken USB port on my PS3 it would end up getting dumped in here even though it has feck all to do with entertainment if I couldn't use my mouse to control Open Office under Yellow Dog Linux on my PS3. If your PC USB port goes, that's ok in the General Forum, but the identical thing on a PS3 is apparently not.
In any case, as I said, this is about Cell based technology. Yes, you can talk about games and the PS3 as long as the discussion has something to do with a technical argument. Not lame fanboy subjective bollocks and FUD about which console someone would rather stick their cock into its HDMI port.
In any case, as I said, this is about Cell based technology. Yes, you can talk about games and the PS3 as long as the discussion has something to do with a technical argument. Not lame fanboy subjective bollocks and FUD about which console someone would rather stick their cock into its HDMI port.
Oh, and with my 3 posts I hi-jacked and spammed your thread did I? No. I was responding to comments, if you want to have a go at someone and go over the top about it, why don't you say that to the people who made it go off course in the first place?
I wish you would have listened to your own advice.
I wish you would have listened to your own advice.
Not technology threads, and I don't think that I have ever been subjective on the level of software. For the most part I have only talked about games consoles from the hardware level, where I am not being subjective in any manner at all, just being as objective I can given the technical details I have at hand.
In any case, I will re-iterate, this thread is not about games.
Do you think making a game based on medical imaging and video and audio processing would be a good idea?
I'm not sure, it depends what age it would be marketed for etc. It sounds quite interesting though, and I guess it has the potential to work.
Lies!
GB created another thread because I was moaning about the people coming here taking doing what Sonymobby and the poster you replied to who were taking this thread as an opportunity to spout their fan-boyish crap.
Oh ok.
I didn't know that, but I was just responding to that comment because it was stupid. If he hadn't made the comment, I wouldn't have made the post.
Oh, and I'm not a fanboy either. I don't think I can even be one as I like all three consoles.
I didn't know that, but I was just responding to that comment because it was stupid. If he hadn't made the comment, I wouldn't have made the post.
Oh, and I'm not a fanboy either. I don't think I can even be one as I like all three consoles.
It's no bother.
We do need a technology forum though. It's actually far more important to people's everyday lives than entertainment is nowadays. Technology doesn't just mean electronics, it could be car engines, fridges with no frost, and knives and forks, and matches, and flint.
I still however would like to here opinions from RedLambs and others on what exactly that PS3 is doing when throwing the Lair graphics over to the PSP.
We do need a technology forum though. It's actually far more important to people's everyday lives than entertainment is nowadays. Technology doesn't just mean electronics, it could be car engines, fridges with no frost, and knives and forks, and matches, and flint.
I still however would like to here opinions from RedLambs and others on what exactly that PS3 is doing when throwing the Lair graphics over to the PSP.
I'll make this my last post here so I don't disrupt it further, but I must say I agree. A 'Technology' thread would make far more sense then the latest of new threads like 'Entertainment' and 'Religion' as you rightly said, it is so pivotal to our lifes. Not just certain people either, technology is important to each and every one of us.
I'm all for it.
I'm all for it.
Trauma center is pretty popular on the DS
Rubbish. Take your 380 blinkers off.
Have you even seen the demo for killzone 2? Technologically it is the most advanced FPS ever on any console.
Download the trailer and you can see for yourself.
PS3 is the best console out, period.And it will win the console war now the US price drop has kicked in (Its outselling Xbox in the states and Japan).
I'm not a Sony fanboy (i Prefer Nintendo) but i do own the PS3 and 360 and i can admit that it is quite clear that the PS3 from a long term prospective wins handsdown.
Yes, I have seen the demo for Killzone 2.
And I don't have 'blinkers' either.
I am not a fanboy either, I own all three consoles and am not bothered about the name at the top of it. I am still of the view that some of the 360 exclusives will smash Killzone 2.
Killzone 2 will follow in Killzone's footsteps, too much hype around it, not enough in the actual game to warrant it.
And I don't have 'blinkers' either.
I am not a fanboy either, I own all three consoles and am not bothered about the name at the top of it. I am still of the view that some of the 360 exclusives will smash Killzone 2.
Killzone 2 will follow in Killzone's footsteps, too much hype around it, not enough in the actual game to warrant it.
Its not until you buy a PS3 that you realise just how good it is. Ok so the killer titles haven't arrived yet, but they will next year.
Regardless of what posters like Hectic state, nothing that the 360 has coming out 'blows' the PS3 away. It just ain't powerful enough to do that.
Games like KZ 2 and Metal gear solid will blow peoples minds when they see them as they are such a step up technologically.
On a side note Blue Ray DVD's are outselling HD DVD 2-1. The advent of Blockbuster video choosing to stock Blue Ray over HD DVD's will also have a significant say in which format wins.
Regardless of what posters like Hectic state, nothing that the 360 has coming out 'blows' the PS3 away. It just ain't powerful enough to do that.
Games like KZ 2 and Metal gear solid will blow peoples minds when they see them as they are such a step up technologically.
On a side note Blue Ray DVD's are outselling HD DVD 2-1. The advent of Blockbuster video choosing to stock Blue Ray over HD DVD's will also have a significant say in which format wins.
Fair play mate. I didn't mean for the blinkers comment to appear insulting by the way. Sorry.
Techo Geeks
Games.
Not a problem, I wasn't insulted about it, just wanted to make clear that I'm not someone who owns one console and thinks that just because I have it, it must be the best thing ever.
I fully expect the PS3 to come out with some special games, but not for quite a while and I don't think they will have the right formula in those two games we have been talking about. I reckon what you are saying will probably be right in a couple years, I don't think they will get the best out of the console in Killzone 2. Perhaps the third one will show of the console best.
Will you stop fecking about in this thread please?
Sorry.
My humble apologies.
My humble apologies.
If you want to talk about Killzone 2, then what do you feel about it using deferred rendering? Are the benefits really worth it considering the range of effects they have to lose by doing it? Would forward rendering not have been a far better option, even though they would have to remove the dynamic lighting?
Well, yes, maybe they will, maybe they wont. It's scalable however because of the amount of die space given to vector processing units and their applicability towards stream processing. SPEs can just be added and added and added. The can either work in a pure stream with one passing data onto the next, or they can be split up to do several tasks in parallel. The ease of which the ray tracer I posted information about at the start of the thread seems to have been put together shows how they can then scale not only onto other chips (Cells), but even other boards/machines, each doing a specific job with one machine being the coordinator. Future PC processors might try to take parts of this type of design, but they are never going to turn into a Cell type processor, the jobs they have to do are far to generic.
There are some old stats somewhere on how the Cell performs against x86 processors on their ground. I'll try to find it for you. It doesn't do badly, but it's not as well suited to running general purpose processing tasks as well as processors built to do that.
Just to clarify Weaste, I'm not a fanboy, I'm just a gamer who has the common sense to understand which console is the best to own NOW. And yest, I shouldn't have posted in this thread which has a different aim.
I think that these two documents go a little further into explaining why Sony was contemplating using two Cell processors in the PS3 rather than Cell-RSX.
http://research.scea.com/ps3_deferred_shading.pdf
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph....&OS=AN/"sony+computer"&RS=AN/"sony+computer"
http://research.scea.com/ps3_deferred_shading.pdf
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph....&OS=AN/"sony+computer"&RS=AN/"sony+computer"
Why are you so fecking bothered? If you like the PS3 so much, then wank over it!
State some facts why the PS3 is "such a step up technologically", then state what that step is going from, then maybe you'll have a worth in this thread.
Refresh my memory old bean, are you talking about the videos of people playing Lair on the PSP?
Yes. Is the PS3 rendering it at PSP resolution here, or is it rendering it at PS3 resolution and then scaling it?
These are quite old and basic, but they give an idea of the performance of the Cell PPE in relation to more traditional (read x86 architecture) processors.
・Dhrystone v2.1
PS3 Cell 3.2GHz: 1879.630
PowerPC G4 1.25GHz: 2202.600
PentiumIII 866MHz: 1124.311
Pentium4 2.0AGHz: 1694.717
Pentium4 3.2GHz: 3258.068
・Linpack 100x100 Benchmark In C/C++ (Rolled Double Precision)
PS3 Cell 3.2GHz: 315.71
PentiumIII 866MHz: 313.05
Pentium4 2.0AGHz: 683.91
Pentium4 3.2GHz: 770.66
Athlon64 X2 4400+ (2.2GHz): 781.58
・Linpack 100x100 Benchmark In C/C++ (Rolled Single Precision)
PS3 Cell 3.2GHz: 312.64
PentiumIII 866MHz: 198.7
Pentium4 2.0AGHz: 82.57
Pentium4 3.2GHz: 276.14
Athlon64 X2 4400+ (2.2GHz): 538.05
But now the Cell is running at a lower speed (3GHz?) and there is one SPE less, right?
The Cell runs at 3.2Ghz (RSX was taken down from 550Mhz to 500Mhz as far as I am aware). IBM has Cells running at far higher clock rates. In the PS3, out of the 8 SPEs in the current Cell design, one is not used at all for production yield purposes, it's dead, you can forget it, and one is reserved for operating system use at this time. I don't have a Devkit, so I couldn't say what the OS is doing with that or what it may use it for. Those figures given were for the PPE alone in any case. Therefore, a programmer has direct use of/access to 6 SPEs.
Without really paying attention, I'd say it's scaling it. If the videos are to be believed, then the PSP screen is incapable of the depth of effect that AA added while scaling can achieve. Either way, it's impressive, although the PSP architecture is such that it really could be sharing the workload more than people would think.
However I may be wrong, ask me in a few days time when I'm back at work and 70-90% alcohol free.
Toshiba announces 'SpursEngine' SPE co-processor
Thursday 20th September 2007, 07:07:20 PM, written by Carl Bender
Toshiba today revealed the name of a new stream processor design focused on the consumer electronics space and derived from the Cell Broadband Engine. Dubbed "SpursEngine™", the new chip is to be demonstrated at this years CEATEC JAPAN running Toshiba's previously shown real-time face morphing software. Serving as a co-processor in an x86 Toshiba notebook PC, the demonstration is designed to showcase the image processing strength of the SPEs in a low-power environment.
In architecting the chip, Toshiba chose to excise the resident Power core of the Cell - largely superfluous in a co-processing environment - and to trim the number of SPEs down to four from eight; added to the die are dedicated MPEG-2 and H.264 decoding/encoding silicon. Although the SPEs themselves are quite capable of performing decoding/encoding tasks, Toshiba has opted for a low-power solution to allow the programmable SPEs to focus on image processing. Running at 1.5GHz, the present prototype of the SpursEngine consumes between 10-20 watts, depending on load.
With a previous June announcement that Toshiba had successfully ported the SPE design to a 65nm CMOS process, it is highly probable that the SpursEngine will likewise be fabbed on said node. At 7.07mm^2 per SPE, the complete chip should be relatively small and inexpensive to produce. As with the primary variant of the Cell processor, XDR memory is utilized for its bandwidth benefits in a media-centric environment.
Toshiba states in their release that the chip will be brought to market after CEATEC, to be targeted at both external customers and internal designs of digital consumer products. Although no specific mention of applications outside of the consumer electronics space was made, were Toshiba to source the chip to PC add-in board vendors, the SpursEngine could find a place in PCI Express boards targeting a number of areas such as audio/sound cards, physics acceleration, workstation/rendering tasks, and of course video processing/acceleration. With an existing PCI Express reference design and low-cost chip fabrication, the SpursEngine could provide a more mainstream point of entry into SPE-acceleration than is presently available to consumers.
Source: Beyond3D
Thursday 20th September 2007, 07:07:20 PM, written by Carl Bender
Toshiba today revealed the name of a new stream processor design focused on the consumer electronics space and derived from the Cell Broadband Engine. Dubbed "SpursEngine™", the new chip is to be demonstrated at this years CEATEC JAPAN running Toshiba's previously shown real-time face morphing software. Serving as a co-processor in an x86 Toshiba notebook PC, the demonstration is designed to showcase the image processing strength of the SPEs in a low-power environment.
In architecting the chip, Toshiba chose to excise the resident Power core of the Cell - largely superfluous in a co-processing environment - and to trim the number of SPEs down to four from eight; added to the die are dedicated MPEG-2 and H.264 decoding/encoding silicon. Although the SPEs themselves are quite capable of performing decoding/encoding tasks, Toshiba has opted for a low-power solution to allow the programmable SPEs to focus on image processing. Running at 1.5GHz, the present prototype of the SpursEngine consumes between 10-20 watts, depending on load.
With a previous June announcement that Toshiba had successfully ported the SPE design to a 65nm CMOS process, it is highly probable that the SpursEngine will likewise be fabbed on said node. At 7.07mm^2 per SPE, the complete chip should be relatively small and inexpensive to produce. As with the primary variant of the Cell processor, XDR memory is utilized for its bandwidth benefits in a media-centric environment.
Toshiba states in their release that the chip will be brought to market after CEATEC, to be targeted at both external customers and internal designs of digital consumer products. Although no specific mention of applications outside of the consumer electronics space was made, were Toshiba to source the chip to PC add-in board vendors, the SpursEngine could find a place in PCI Express boards targeting a number of areas such as audio/sound cards, physics acceleration, workstation/rendering tasks, and of course video processing/acceleration. With an existing PCI Express reference design and low-cost chip fabrication, the SpursEngine could provide a more mainstream point of entry into SPE-acceleration than is presently available to consumers.
Source: Beyond3D
It seems to me that in remote play mode, it has to render at PSP resolution. There is no way it can render multiple screens at PS3 resolution, scale them, and send them 3 or more PSPs. Stick another 5 Cells in there, then maybe (even then you would have to change a lot of code to discount RSX - what the hell is RSX doing in remote play? Is RSX even used in this scenario, or is the PSP doing the final render?), but at the moment it has to change the frame buffer(s) to PSP resolutions (480x272 - 1/16 of a PS3 doing full 1080p) if all remote play works the same way as shown in the second slide photo.
This is something that no other available technology can live with ATM, it's simply not possible on any other architecture. Will it catch on though? Playing a game with a mate whilst you are in your front room and he is on the bus?
Going back to how this works. Could the PS3 scale all of the textures before the game started, send them to the PSP, the PS3 then frame by frame settles the basic scene for each PSP remotely connected (does all of the polygon culling etc.) and then sends the image in 3D form for the PSP to rasterise? Or is it a mix of all sorts?
I'm interested in how best this would work.
I'm interested in how best this would work.
hey weaste i was just reading another thread about "the god created manchester" thing and got to thinking....maybe you could e-mail someone from the shop "identity" where the t-shirts were originally sold in afflecks palace....they might have some info for ya.
www.afflecks-palace.co.uk
www.afflecks-palace.co.uk
Oh, thanks for that!
Ok, some old stuff.
Cell twating a G80 at raytracing (and making an AMD Opteron look like an MC68000).
http://gametomorrow.com/blog/index.php/2007/09/05/cell-vs-g80/
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Playstation3 helps robots see
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Cell twating a G80 at raytracing (and making an AMD Opteron look like an MC68000).
http://gametomorrow.com/blog/index.php/2007/09/05/cell-vs-g80/
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Playstation3 helps robots see
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