Outdo it in what terms?
Right! My new Cell, RSX, SCC, PS3 thoughts...
- Thread starter WeasteDevil
- Start date
Outdo it in what terms?
Graphics processing presumably.
Well, I know that it has become a rather large Internet joke, but:
Wii:
PS2 a long time ago:
Nintendo knew this, and developed it to appeal to a different sort of gamer.Well, I know that it has become a rather large Internet joke, but:
Wii:
PS2 a long time ago:
Think you're unfairly comparing a relatively new platform with one that has been in developers' hands for ages, Weaste. Not saying it's an excuse for poor graphics, but you have to leave the developers some time to come up with optimizations on new hardware, no?
Also, you have to take into account the budgets for the games you're comparing. I've seen quite a few Wii games with way better graphics than that.
Well, of course you do, but the argument doesn't wash in this case, because the Wii is not much more than an upgraded Game Cube. Developers should be quite in the know regarding Wii hardware.
It gets even worse when you bring the Ps3 into the mix:
Yes, the Wii can do far better than that, I was only using this as an example of where the PS2 near to the end of its life can live still with the Wii on a technological level. God of War 2 is a prime example.
Well, we all know the PS3 blows everything else out of the water when it comes to pure number-crunching capability, no question here. I was only reacting to that somewhat bizarre comparison you were making, taking a poor excuse of a Wii game and stacking it against one of the best the PS2 had to offer.
The Wii has about three times as much processing power as the Gamecube, or so I'm told in Wikipedia, and bear in mind the PS2 was inferior to the Cube in that respect, so in time developers can come up with a game which will surpass the graphics found even in GT, if they are so inclined. I don't think that's even the focus for many developers, or gamers who have chosen to invest in the Wii, to be fair.
If the Wii didn't have the Wiimote and its motion-sensing capability it would've been left in the dust by its technologically superior rivals, no denying that. But the Wii has had the casual market cornered, and what we have seen happen in the portable handheld market is happening all over again with the Wii/PS3. Not sure how Sony are going to dig themselves out of this hole tbh. It's not all about the hardware...in gaming, anyway.
The Wii has about three times as much processing power as the Gamecube, or so I'm told in Wikipedia, and bear in mind the PS2 was inferior to the Cube in that respect, so in time developers can come up with a game which will surpass the graphics found even in GT, if they are so inclined. I don't think that's even the focus for many developers, or gamers who have chosen to invest in the Wii, to be fair.
If the Wii didn't have the Wiimote and its motion-sensing capability it would've been left in the dust by its technologically superior rivals, no denying that. But the Wii has had the casual market cornered, and what we have seen happen in the portable handheld market is happening all over again with the Wii/PS3. Not sure how Sony are going to dig themselves out of this hole tbh. It's not all about the hardware...in gaming, anyway.
I like the idea behind the Wii. Thing is, it's all well and good having more capability. . .but that doesn't equate to a better gaming experience. I'm sure you'll see better graphics on the PS3, but so what. Nintendo are a proper games company. . .and their products tend to be more innovative in terms of gameplay than the likes of Sony and Microsoft.
Well said.
The GCN was superior to the PS2 in terms of graphic output and was closer to the Xbox than the PS2 was to it. I know, I've worked with all three.
The Wii is not 3 times more powerful than the GCN though, it's better but more in streamlining and a little extra boost in power for updated effects and much smoother framrates where needed.
Exactly.
Well said.
Anyway, got a little off track there, but before I start going off about something else, here's a funny little something I saw reported yesterday.
It was always known that this was going to be possible, but it's the first time I've seen it, if indeed it is real.
It was always known that this was going to be possible, but it's the first time I've seen it, if indeed it is real.
Do you like Lair?
I've not actually played it yet so I could not tell. In any case, this thread is about the technology, not the game play merits of any software running upon it. That should be placed in a different thread.
The thing I want to know about the game running on a PSP display is if it is being rendered at PSP resolution or whether it is rendered in 1080p and scaled down. If the former of the two, it provides very interesting possibilities, as it could in theory serve more than one PSP in the same game. Also, I am guessing that this is running over WiFi - what about having your PSP on the other side of the world and streaming the game screen over the net?
Kill Zone 2, Metal gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo HD. These are just a few of the PS3 Exclusives coming soon. Each looks absolutely stunning. In fact far far superior to anything X box can ever dream of.
Its been a slow start for quality titles but by this time next year the PS3 will be the number 1 console, i guarantee it.
Not true. Don't be sucked in by false things posted on the net. The PS3 is impressive and I'd like to get my hands on the actual dev kit, but it's not going to produce anything that blows the x-box out of the water, as much as you fanboys want to claim.
Don't be stupid. You can't guarantee a damn thing.
Bioshock lools immense.
Nobody seriously thinks that the RSX would fare well if placed in the same hardware environment as Xenos. Ever since the EE however, that's never been the idea on Sony's part. As I said before, the PS2 was playing with the basic ideas of what became PS3. It's never been close to PC type architecture where you place the best GPU you can possibly find and rely on it basically alone to provide the graphical output.
Remember, Sony did at one time envisage the PS3 having two Cells and no RSX. The second Cell was going to take the place of the GPU. Why they backed down on this and got nVidia involved is the source and product of much speculation. My guess is that they had difficulties in terms of timescale and played the safer cards. The interesting thing for the future however is that if you do have two Cells, then the second Cell itself can have an RSX or whatever, could be 20 other Cells, could be something else.
Going back to the PS2, it's its architecture that still allows it very much so to compete with the Wii today in many respects. If it had been designed along the same lines as the original XBox and the GC with the GPU it has it would have been dead a long time ago.
Wrong thread!
Not yet it wont. It will IMO take at least 3-4 years before any of the developers seriously get their heads around what they can do with the SPUs when they do it right.
Killzone is interesting in a way though in that it uses deferred rendering for the large number of dynamic lights they want for the look they want to acheive. I'm not sure if anyone has yet tried that out on a XB360 to see how it goes. I've seen some slides from a presentation from its developers, and it's a little ambiguous, but they do not seem to be using anywhere near the capacity of the SPUs most of the time.
GT is just GT and its developers do what they do best and that nobody else has ever quite been able to pull off by all accounts.
Metal Gear and FF are just tools Sony has up their sleeve to flog a lot of systems, similar to Halo up the MS sleeve. If they all turn out to be good games or not, they are system sellers due to their already large fanbases. GT is similar to that I suppose as well.
I can't wait to get a PS3.
Just for the potential Weaste is talking? Don't be fooled man. If you want a game console with great games on it now and more coming in September and the holidays buy 360. The games mentioned here such as Killzone, GT5 and Metal Gear Solid will come out, if I'm not mistaken, in the second half of 2008. Buy it when the good games are out and I'm sure that by that time the price will have fallen. Btw Weaste have you seen the pic where they show that the trees used in GT5 are 2D? They look like a green cross from the top. If I can find that pic again I will post it.
Edit: The pic is from a comparison of GT5 with PGR4
Is the XBox 360 HD though, like the PS3? I was under the assumption that it wasn't.
It is HD
Will you all piss off and discuss this in a thread about games consoles and their relative merits?
Just for the potential Weaste is talking? Don't be fooled man. If you want a game console with great games on it now and more coming in September and the holidays buy 360. The games mentioned here such as Killzone, GT5 and Metal Gear Solid will come out, if I'm not mistaken, in the second half of 2008. Buy it when the good games are out and I'm sure that by that time the price will have fallen. Btw Weaste have you seen the pic where they show that the trees used in GT5 are 2D? They look like a green cross from the top. If I can find that pic again I will post it.
Edit: The pic is from a comparison of GT5 with PGR4
Go away! You are spamming this thread with useless information. Also, comparative low resolution stills do very little in terms of comparison.
If you wish to provide this sort of spam, start your own thread.
Anyway, back to this remote play thing.
Kelvin, Redlambs, what are you opinions on how this is rendered - directly to PSP resolution or PS3 resolution, scaled, and then streamed?
Kelvin, Redlambs, what are you opinions on how this is rendered - directly to PSP resolution or PS3 resolution, scaled, and then streamed?
I think that you might be confusing a few things. On the technical level the XB360 outputs to HD resolutions, ie. 720p+. What it does not have is a high definition optical drive, it used DVD9. Regarding its audio capabilities, I'd have to look that up.
Toshiba have stated that they will be putting their Cell chip into their TVs by 2009.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/news/2007/08/31/Toshiba-and-HD-DVD-at-IFA/p1
http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/news/2007/08/31/Toshiba-and-HD-DVD-at-IFA/p1
This is actually a product from Sony Electronics Inc. the electronics arm of the company that makes your TVs and Hi-Fis etc, so has nothing to do with PS3, which is Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.
It's also interesting to note that the RSX does not have any of its own memory and it seems that it is being used to add more mathematical processing power to the Cell, which has 1GB of XDR. There is also some sort of SCC on Southbridge linked direct to the Cell with a 5GB/s bus with 1Gb of GDDR2 expandable over PCIe 4x to 10Gb of system memory in total.
The apparently showed several demos of the card.
The first demo is decoding 1,000 SD MPEG2 streams simultaneously while showing them as textures in realtime 3D graphics.
The second demo is physics simulation by Havok, dynamic destruction of 1,000 objects.
The next demo is ink simulation called "SUMINAGASHI" that shows fluid physics by MoXi.
The last one is a 4K2K tech demo, 1 Cell board does realtime color correction for a 4K2K video stream. Then 3 Cell boards encode 24fps baseband non-compressed 4K2K video in realtime. The 4K2K digital cinema codec is 4:4:4 JPEG2000 and 24 SPUs can process it realtime with a constant 250Mbps throughput. 3 Cell boards are connected each other with GbE and the video output is 4 HD SDI to SRX-S110. The processing power is still left in this demo, it does QVGA MPEG-4 AVC encoding and broadcasts it to PSP via WLAN while encoding a 4K2K stream, all in realtime.
So, the question that comes from all of this faffing around is why? Why have Sony gone to all this effort and money to create such an uberprocessor? It's quite obvious that from the begging this was not just about games, yet it's actually the gaming division of Sony that developed it and holds the patents.
At this moment in time I do not think that Sony really give a shit about the PS3 being able to sell as many units as the PS2 did, at least not in the short term. And in the longer term the PS3 will sell. It has also been a wonderful little mechanism for getting Blu-ray off the ground, as without the PS3 as a host to it, I think it would be dead in the water by now and HD-DVD would be the de-facto standard.
So WTF are they up to here? Developing all of this technology from scratch and sticking it all together into a single box branded as a games console that is obviously not for the masses due to the cost of all of this new technology does not exactly sound like good business sense does it? $600 for a games console and still taking a $200 loss on it. WTF are they up to?
It's not just about PS3 is it? It's about something else........
This is it (in its current iteration):
Not saying that I disagree with what you have said, but those images you have posted don't really back your argument Weaste.
You are comparing a rubbish Wii game with in-game graphics to a special playstation 3 game that has had a far bigger budget, not to mention the actual image you posted isn't even in-game.
It's not a fair comparison on that note.
You are comparing a rubbish Wii game with in-game graphics to a special playstation 3 game that has had a far bigger budget, not to mention the actual image you posted isn't even in-game.
It's not a fair comparison on that note.
so weaste do you think blue ray will eventually be the industry standard?
and hd dvd will eventually dissappear?
Then why were you comparing images of the Wii and Playstation 2/3 as a form of argument?
A serious question here, do you know what the argument I was forming actually was?
It was quite different to the provocative one sonymobby was trying to introduce. Just in case you need help, one was an image from a Wii game, the other from a PS2 game. The post in question was a reply to an argument a specific aspect of the design of PS2 architecture.
Again, what was I arguing?
We will have to see, but my gut feeling is that yes Blu-ray will in the longer term push HD-DVD out of the market. The PS3 is a mass market vehicle to push it, no other manufacturer has that, and also I do not think that people are that interested in the interactive capabilities of HD-DVD, they just want to watch a high definition film at the end of the day.