The point being that constructive criticism of players who aren't performing is natural.
there's always a disappointment about losing. fans always think they know what's wrong and what's got to happen to put it right.
united are in a different realm now. we've had so much success over the last 10 years that finishing 2nd is a huge failure.
interestingly arse and scousescum seemed to have believed their own hype - remember they've both lost 4 in the prem, and some bad losses in europe.
i'm always happier when united are 'coming from behind', then when they're a points or two in front. its a matter of pace. so far we've paced our season right - but there's a long way to go.
if we're going to win anything its with the players that we've got now. they are capable of winning anything, but they won't win everything so we're going to be disappointed somewhere along the line.
6 weeks ago we could hardly believed that they'd beat Newcy, Livvy and Arse, win away in Cl and get to last 8 of Worthless cup. BUT there was the defeat by city as well.
you have to temper the bad with the good.
there's no point slagging off players. they know they've failed -- they just need the next game to put it right.
i'm sure we'll be in the shake-out come april/may.
just hope we have a bit of silverware.
patience isn't easy when you lose.
well done reds.
<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
united are in a different realm now. we've had so much success over the last 10 years that finishing 2nd is a huge failure.
interestingly arse and scousescum seemed to have believed their own hype - remember they've both lost 4 in the prem, and some bad losses in europe.
i'm always happier when united are 'coming from behind', then when they're a points or two in front. its a matter of pace. so far we've paced our season right - but there's a long way to go.
if we're going to win anything its with the players that we've got now. they are capable of winning anything, but they won't win everything so we're going to be disappointed somewhere along the line.
6 weeks ago we could hardly believed that they'd beat Newcy, Livvy and Arse, win away in Cl and get to last 8 of Worthless cup. BUT there was the defeat by city as well.
you have to temper the bad with the good.
there's no point slagging off players. they know they've failed -- they just need the next game to put it right.
i'm sure we'll be in the shake-out come april/may.
just hope we have a bit of silverware.
patience isn't easy when you lose.
well done reds.
<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
is that a pig flying past me window?
there some lying bolloxes on here
there some lying bolloxes on here
I'm not going to put a smiley on this just say "look at me, i'm a wonderful fan." There are two types of criticism, Constructive and non-constructive. If your post have fallen into the constructive then they deserve to be read and treated with respect.
Half the people who claim to be perfect fans have blamed Veron or called for a return to 4-4-2. Just becuase you think that Sir Alex has implemented the wrong tactics or picked the wrong team doesn't mean that they are any less of a fan. This is a fans forum for fecks sake and it would be a pretty boring place to visit if everone agreed with each other.
Half the people who claim to be perfect fans have blamed Veron or called for a return to 4-4-2. Just becuase you think that Sir Alex has implemented the wrong tactics or picked the wrong team doesn't mean that they are any less of a fan. This is a fans forum for fecks sake and it would be a pretty boring place to visit if everone agreed with each other.
some fans constantly moan..which is wrong, considering the success we've had.. they come across like spoilt kids...which probaly isn't their fault, coz they've only been fans since the 90's..
my main beef was with the kermits, who wanted SAF to 'move upstairs' or get sacked and replaced....with mclaren...(kinell how can anyone even think that??????) Anyone that suggested that, isn't a 'true' united fan. i don't care what stick, i get from that brigade.. thats how it is IMO.
even if things start turning bad again.. i'll still say the same thing... sometimes i wished these lot would feck off and 'support' the club nearest to where they were born...
12 years of unrivalled success...and we still complain...
<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
my main beef was with the kermits, who wanted SAF to 'move upstairs' or get sacked and replaced....with mclaren...(kinell how can anyone even think that??????) Anyone that suggested that, isn't a 'true' united fan. i don't care what stick, i get from that brigade.. thats how it is IMO.
even if things start turning bad again.. i'll still say the same thing... sometimes i wished these lot would feck off and 'support' the club nearest to where they were born...
12 years of unrivalled success...and we still complain...
<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
Hang on a minute ! Whilst the metamorphosis has been nothing short of remarkable and whilst we rejoice as United fans on the recent victories over our bitterest rivals, we must keep our feet on the ground. We've not won anything yet and there's still a long way to go. Personally I stand by everything I have said in this and other forums about my concerns for United and in particular Fergie, his tactics and what I described as declining abilities as manager. I have always said that naturally I will be delighted to be proved wrong and that despite the concerns Fergie is not someone to be underestimated which perhaps I was guilty of doing . I also said, before the Newcastle game, that whatever our concerns and criticisms we should now get fully behind the team in what would be a very challenging month, more particularly as we have a squad consisting of many great players which if they played or were allowed to play to their true potential would rise to the challenges ahead. Unlike many, I was not one to support a wholesale clear out, a suggestion reportedly instigated by Fergie, rather mischieviously as it turned out. Although the signs now look good or at least a whole lot better, the time for accolades to be handed out to those who think for example that Fergie can do absolutley no wrong and that Forlan is a great player in the making, are a little premature. Let's reserve that for when the fat lady starts singing come May next year.
JD
we have the best manager in the world, hes won more trophies than any other manager and when he retired he will leave a legacy for the next manager.
he deserves our total support and any questioning of him should be left to abu's not united fans.
we have the best manager in the world, hes won more trophies than any other manager and when he retired he will leave a legacy for the next manager.
he deserves our total support and any questioning of him should be left to abu's not united fans.
isn't this "back-slapping" a bit ridicilous ?
his record speaks for itself...
and those who thought that he's lost hunger...should see the way he celebrates goals...
kinell i can still remember his face after the derby defeat
He is still the best man for the job... i don't think there's another manager in the whole world who can motivate players like SAF.
BTW when he moves upstairs... i hope we get a manager with similar enthusiasm... Moyes or o' Neil.. would be great..... but for the time being... SAF, the man who rebuilt this great club, has enough mileage left in him! <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
History will show that he's proved the doubters wrong on many occasions...i have no doubt that he'll do it again......
remember this is not Ron Atkinson..or Terry Venables!!!!!!!!!!!!
and those who thought that he's lost hunger...should see the way he celebrates goals...
kinell i can still remember his face after the derby defeat
He is still the best man for the job... i don't think there's another manager in the whole world who can motivate players like SAF.
BTW when he moves upstairs... i hope we get a manager with similar enthusiasm... Moyes or o' Neil.. would be great..... but for the time being... SAF, the man who rebuilt this great club, has enough mileage left in him! <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
History will show that he's proved the doubters wrong on many occasions...i have no doubt that he'll do it again......
remember this is not Ron Atkinson..or Terry Venables!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
And some, like Weaste, think Giggs should be sold.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I still do, but as you know Neil, that is for long term reasons, not the way that he has been playing.
<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> c'mon even if someone did criticize the team... who cares, there will always be someone who's not satisfied or just wants to complain.
it's our way of throwing tea cups and giving them a kick in the arse to start playing with passion.
greetings jedi....long has it been since jedi master last posted....working behind the scenes on restoring peace to the jedi order....must have been clearly apparant in the thrashings of newcastle, liverpool and arsenal, jedi master's work hmmmm.....
anyways to answer the question, hey Weaste, maybe in past threads, the dark side has gotten the better of jedi master and probably still may do in the coming months, but do you think jedi master deserves one of them smileys??? ohh shit and jedi master has also slagged you off quite a few times, no.....shit, no smileys for jedi master then.....awww, bloody hell....
anyways to answer the question, hey Weaste, maybe in past threads, the dark side has gotten the better of jedi master and probably still may do in the coming months, but do you think jedi master deserves one of them smileys??? ohh shit and jedi master has also slagged you off quite a few times, no.....shit, no smileys for jedi master then.....awww, bloody hell....
We cannot and should not be unquestioning. That would be wrong. It would lead to something of a tyranny. And no one would tolerate an extreme of this, certainly not at Manchester United. The point about SAF is that he is surely quite eccentric, but it is that same eccentricity that makes him different from the others and makes us what we are today.
I agree the players need the kick in the butt. But, even that should be measured. It should not backfire. That is the difference between constructive and negative criticism.You go the negative way and the damage it causes is irreparable, backfiring at us. And this is where it is not good for the psyche of a player, and ultimately of a team, to call for drastic measures that may not be warranted. That is where we need to draw the line on criticism.
And this is not about finding the good fans from the bad ones. As fans, we only want our team to perform well. And the fact that we are sometimes 'intolerant' has to be positive from the point of veiw that it shows the high standards we have achieved and are keen to maintain. But, in being fans, we have to have not to get carried away in a cynical way. That is the point, for that is negative.
I agree the players need the kick in the butt. But, even that should be measured. It should not backfire. That is the difference between constructive and negative criticism.You go the negative way and the damage it causes is irreparable, backfiring at us. And this is where it is not good for the psyche of a player, and ultimately of a team, to call for drastic measures that may not be warranted. That is where we need to draw the line on criticism.
And this is not about finding the good fans from the bad ones. As fans, we only want our team to perform well. And the fact that we are sometimes 'intolerant' has to be positive from the point of veiw that it shows the high standards we have achieved and are keen to maintain. But, in being fans, we have to have not to get carried away in a cynical way. That is the point, for that is negative.
Originally posted by Kristjan:
<strong>isn't this "back-slapping" a bit ridicilous ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good init?
oooiiii weasty....answer jedi master, you #$%^&#$ jackass....ohhhh shit!!!!!
Originally posted by jedi master yoda:
<strong>oooiiii weasty....answer jedi master, you #$%^&#$ jackass....ohhhh shit!!!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Greetings Jedi Master.
greetings jedi....long time init.....so what's the verdict on jedi master you #@%#$% jackass....ooohhh shit, again!!!
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
And some, like Weaste, think Giggs should be sold. Players have waves of form, poor games, good games, exceptional games, we've had a few exceptional games, we've also had some exceptionally poor games, if we go back to playing like we did at the start of the season then we'd not finish in the CL, if we continue playing with this kind of form, we'll win the title. Whats pathetic is using their waves of form to boost your own ego by pretending to be a 'better fan' than someone else, which is very childish.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Spot on.
no smilie...
...except...
what does 'support' mean?
Originally posted by jedi master yoda:
<strong>greetings jedi....long time init.....so what's the verdict on jedi master you #@%#$% jackass....ooohhh shit, again!!!
Why do people get so wound up over G Nev etc whenever anybody criticises them, against Liverpool he was immense, but I think in the Arsenal game he was good (remember it Neveille who let Henry through when he should have scored at 0-0), P Neveille was excellent against Arsenal but we all know that he hasn't got the ability to perform like that on a regular basis (if he did would SAF not play him on a regular basis). I am also a bit mystified abot all these people saying we should not have knocked Veron after his performance in the Arsenal game- he was good against them compared to his usual EPL performances, but in the first half especially he still give the ball away too many times and he still is not performing to the standard that a 28+ million pound player should. Don't let the fact he got a goal (that resulted from a handball) cloud your judgement. I think every red would love to see players like the Nevs, Veron etc playing consistently well every week but I don't think it is going to happen. Definetly savour the moment guys but don't get too carried away.
Originally posted by Canadian Dee:
<strong>Why do people get so wound up over G Nev etc whenever anybody criticises them, against Liverpool he was immense, but I think in the Arsenal game he was good (remember it Neveille who let Henry through when he should have scored at 0-0), P Neveille was excellent against Arsenal but we all know that he hasn't got the ability to perform like that on a regular basis (if he did would SAF not play him on a regular basis). I am also a bit mystified abot all these people saying we should not have knocked Veron after his performance in the Arsenal game- he was good against them compared to his usual EPL performances, but in the first half especially he still give the ball away too many times and he still is not performing to the standard that a 28+ million pound player should. Don't let the fact he got a goal (that resulted from a handball) cloud your judgement. I think every red would love to see players like the Nevs, Veron etc playing consistently well every week but I don't think it is going to happen. Definetly savour the moment guys but don't get too carried away.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> go easy boys & girls, afterall the jackass is canadian!!!! ....unbelievable, even after a titanic performance like on Sat, some idiots can still find it in them to take a swipe at the players.....bloody pathetic!!!!!
<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> I've been reading the crap written on this forum for a while now....there were alot of people bagging Veron, Gary & Phil, SAF etc. It GREAT to see these same individuals turn it on and prove all you ignorant bastards wrong.
Go you Good Things!!!!
RedFromMelb.
Originally posted by Gillespie:
<strong>
Pass the sick bowl....this self congratulatory nonsense is enough to make me puke....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Makes you sick, huh? Well how did you feel when Arsenal legend Tony Adams backed us to beat you? And how did it feel when he was proved 100% right?
Mea culpa too ..
I did sort of wonder what the point of Fortune was once .......deary me how could I have sinned so badly ??aand maybe too I queried their desire a little , just a little bit ....seems so did Sir alex though ...does that make me an outcast ? after all these years too .....I even remeber George in his pomp .
I did sort of wonder what the point of Fortune was once .......deary me how could I have sinned so badly ??aand maybe too I queried their desire a little , just a little bit ....seems so did Sir alex though ...does that make me an outcast ? after all these years too .....I even remeber George in his pomp .
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>
That's not allowed!
Sorry, I chose the wrong one. I'll try again.
I think this thread misses the point a tad, though I applaud it's sentiment.
United is the broadest church in World club football, and people come to the club from differing cultures and backgrounds with different degrees of enthusiasm and knowledge.
This isn't something to decry but celebrate.
Lets leave the parochialism to Leeds and Liverpool and the like.
This forum would have no worth if it wasn't open enough to reflect the diversity of our support including any naivety.
This football forum is the best on the net because it is the most inclusive.
Veron, The Nevs, Fergie's tactics...these have all been valid areas of discussion and debate, and will continue to be so.
You may find yourself biting your lip more than you wish, but that is democracy and part of being a United fan.
So with the greatest respect, no smilies from me.
United is the broadest church in World club football, and people come to the club from differing cultures and backgrounds with different degrees of enthusiasm and knowledge.
This isn't something to decry but celebrate.
Lets leave the parochialism to Leeds and Liverpool and the like.
This forum would have no worth if it wasn't open enough to reflect the diversity of our support including any naivety.
This football forum is the best on the net because it is the most inclusive.
Veron, The Nevs, Fergie's tactics...these have all been valid areas of discussion and debate, and will continue to be so.
You may find yourself biting your lip more than you wish, but that is democracy and part of being a United fan.
So with the greatest respect, no smilies from me.
I think I qualify for and <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
I can't remember all my posts. I have occasional negative thoughts about most players at times (who doesn't) but I think I try to keep them to myself. I feel I have defended those listed more times than should be neccessary. As someone else said in this thread - we seem to have some spoilt kids here who think we only need to turn up to win.
Supporting a team during the bad times makes the good times sweeter.
and <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> I can't remember all my posts. I have occasional negative thoughts about most players at times (who doesn't) but I think I try to keep them to myself. I feel I have defended those listed more times than should be neccessary. As someone else said in this thread - we seem to have some spoilt kids here who think we only need to turn up to win.
Supporting a team during the bad times makes the good times sweeter.