No point in signing a young RB with Dalot on the books and TFM is not gonna make it at the highest level. Meunier or Vrsaljko for me.
Right back....what are the options (if any)?
- Thread starter Wayne's World
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In Mourinho's system, Meunier would have been a huge flop. Completely different story now Ole is here (temporarily I know). His biggest strength is his forward play, as he's an inverted winger/striker. He isn't the best defender out there, but not bad either. He compensates a lot with his physique and speed.
Don't think he will become available though. He's played a lot of games for PSG over the last three years, comparable to Dani Alves who's 8 years older. And there aren't a lot of shiny RB available elsewhere.
Don't think he will become available though. He's played a lot of games for PSG over the last three years, comparable to Dani Alves who's 8 years older. And there aren't a lot of shiny RB available elsewhere.
I don't think many teams( outside of City)can and will spend massive money on an established full back. It is a position where good scouting or development can save a lot of money. Spurs bringing in relatively unheralded types like Trippier and Davies, or Liverpool with Robertson and a youth product. Neither of Alonso or Azpilcueta were big names when Chelsea bought them either, so instead of a futile chase for someone like Meunier there must be someone out there who could make an impact out of the blue.
Haven't watched much of Southampton this season in fairness, but have always rated Cedric for them. Could be worth a shot possibly? Not ideal of course, but the chances of getting the perfect signing like Meunier/Azpilicueta or someone of that ilk are probably low in January, or even the summer if we miss out on CL football.
We've already done this with Dalot but it's very obvious he needs time, the problem is all we've got to bridge the gap is Ashley Young. Meunier is coming into the last year of his contract so I don't think he'd be impossible to get, he's a United fan and has said even while at PSG he'd love to play for us one day.
Not a bad shout at all. You’d hope the club have explored this option at the very least. Maybe Lukaku can have a word.
Lukaku would definitely love him here as they've combined well for Belgium with Meunier's deliveries. PSG might also be looking to sell a few players due to the FFP situation over Neymar and Mbappe, so a player in the last year of his contract for say £25M might appeal to them, I guess it will depend on what their other options are bar Alves.
Hysaj's agent has been moaning to the press about a lack of playing time and lack of respect from Ancelotti. Said if the club don't clear up the situation he wants a transfer this month.
I dont know if Wan-Bissaka have a quality for top club but he grab Fosu-Mensah place laste year and since then he is doing very well. There is a roumors that Klop wants him as replacment for Clyne.
They have none at RB. So I can't see them selling him as they want go as fas as possible in the ECL. Except the FFP force them to sell if they want to keep Mbappe and Neymar. It's a shame because I think he could do it here for a reasonable price and give enough game time to Dalot to developp.
Rafael da Silva
I believe his contract ends in the summer so on a free transfer it really makes sense for us. He'd be good competition for Dalot and knows and is passionate about the club.
Nathaniel Clyne would have been a good option if he didn't play for Liverpool. He's been unfortunate with injury and the rise of Alexander Arnold.
Probably been mentioned but I've been really impressed with Ricardo Pereira of Leicester.
Excellent at going forward. Can play as a right midfielder, too.
Excellent at going forward. Can play as a right midfielder, too.
Yeah he's definitely good enough to play for one of the big 4-6 teams, I reckon.
Whether he's the answer is another thing, but we need someone - Dalot isn't gonna be ready next season and we cannot be relying on two 33yr old wingers again.
Dalot needs to become faster if he is going to make it in a high defensive line. Too often he falls behind the attacker & uses his hands to try and get back. Makes it too obvious and he is bound to get double-yellowed for it or let big chances come against us.
Doesn't need to be that much faster, but a bit.
Not sure what alternatives there are. Carvajal & Kimmich I assume won't be moving anywhere.
Meunier seems to be the best option from the little I know.
Doesn't need to be that much faster, but a bit.
Not sure what alternatives there are. Carvajal & Kimmich I assume won't be moving anywhere.
Meunier seems to be the best option from the little I know.
Dalot is pretty fast, the issue isn't a lack of speed but poor positioning he is often not aligned and leaves room in his back which forces him to chase opponents.
Edit: Against Huddersfield he was the fastest player on the field at +34km/h.
Last matches he's been in he has gotten yellows for situations like the one I mentioned. If he was faster he could make it without the use of his hands.
Positioning can and probably is down to manager-instructions as Ole wants his wingbacks to be positioned more like wingers when we attack. Naive, yes, but for now that makes me not consider it a positional problem on Dalots part.
No, he wouldn't. A defender has to turn and then accelerate against a player that is already launched. Unless you think that he should be comparable to the best 100m sprinters what you are suggesting makes no sense. Dalot is fast enough, he needs to improve on his defensive skills, positioning, anticipation and marking.
Those things don't matter if he is instructed to stay so far up field.
Also, I'm saying slightly faster. So far I've seen him almost be able to catch up. Running-technique/form and optimizing fitness should absolutely make him slightly faster. It's not like he is amongst the fastest players in the world.
Depends how you define "fastest". Truth is he was clocked for the max speed on the field that day.
Top speed is bordering to irrelevant for a football player though. An athlete does not reach that until after 40-60 meters running straight forward. Which seldom happens on a football field.
Its acceleration the first 20-30 meters that is relevant and Dalot seems to lack that. IMO he is slower than both Valencia and Young from a relevant football perspective.
He is young so it will be important for him how his body develops, because he looks pretty framed already.
Fast he is not.
Yeah, but just read what you are writing. Kimmich for example isn't particularly fast, he has good positional sense and good anticipation, it's just strange that instead of focusing on what makes a good defender, you focus on one thing that Dalot has shown which is his speed and ability to make some of his rookie mistakes less egregious. Again, he needs to improve on the basics of his role because that's what put him in danger.
I was mentioning the two regarded as the best currently as unavailable. I didn't think of them in the system we currently play. Our play will also change if we get a new manager. If we are to continue with Ole then Dalot needs to be slightly faster or Ole needs to be less naive with how far up he wants his wingbacks.
So your opinion is better than an objective data?
My opinion is what I'm going after, yes. It's an opinion after all. It's not like my view is super-important so if I'm wrong then that's all it is.
My opinion is that he was clocked for the fastest top speed that game. That is objective data. Rooney tended to outscore everyone else on this even after his legs were supposedly "gone". Does not mean that he was a fast player.
It has more to do with which type of players that takes 60 meter runs in a game. Rooney did that a lot. Thats also why fullbacks always rates high at this as well. Smalling or Fellaini would probably kill Messi and Hazard as well at top speed.
Again: Top speed is irrelevant for a top football player. The 30 yard dash that they use in the US when scouting EDIT American football players would be a much better measurement. This is not done in football though, so its pretty much the eye test, and if you have seen Dalot play he looks if not slow so close to it. He needs to work on that a lot and not put on more weight.
My opinion is what I'm going after, yes. It's an opinion after all. It's not like my view is super-important so if I'm wrong then that's all it is.
It wasn't for you, you expressed your opinion without dismissing facts. There is a difference between you saying that he should be faster for a certain role and Johan07 saying that he isn't fast based on his own opinion. It doesn't even make sense when you consider that most of the time he recovers most ground and end up doing the silly things that you described.
My point is simply that when you look at the initial point, you will notice that he is almost always badly positioned which is an easily workable thing, when you combine that improvement with what he has shown in terms of being able to close distances then the grabbing issues should disappear. In general, it's best for a defender to improve his defensive skills, it's a lot more reliable because you are not always going to be faster than your opponent.
Oh my. For some reason I assumed it was for me.
I'll try to keep tabs on his positioning. As mentioned I believe he is instructed to go high up on the pitch to stretch play, but he could of course still position himself badly up there. I have mostly noticed that he is almost fast enough to catch wingers when they counter but that he tends to use his hands when he gets close to them.
All of that is totally irrelevant, it would make sense if it was recorded on a track but it was on the pitch, so it was a functional speed unlike the 30 yard dash, which is absolutely useless by the way. Dalot is a fast player because he has shown it on the field, it doesn't mean that he is the fastest athlete, it doesn't mean that he couldn't/shouldn't improve but it definitely means that he isn't "not fast". As for my point, it's simply that his issues have come from defensive skills not athleticism at the exception of an apparent lack of stamina for a fullback.
Clocking top speed in a game is pretty much meaningless. Jagielka was the fastest player in the league by that metric.
You are twisting what I stated.
My point was and still is that top speed is irrelevant when deciding if a football player is fast/quick/explosive. You can say that its an opinion, I would argue that its bordering to fact. And you used that number as evidence for Dalot being a "fast" player. Thats incorrect IMO.
The reason that Dalot was clocked for the "top" speed in the game that you referred to is probably easiest explained by that he took the longest straight forward run without impediments in that game.
The fact that athletes/football players does not reach top speed until around 6o meters is not an opinion. Its a fact. The highest top speed ever registered by a human being was Usain Bolt after around 70 meters in a 100m race. Thats late, most athletes reaches their top speed earlier, football players even earlier since they tend to be more explosive.
Not even for a sprinter as Bolt is top speed the most important thing. Its not always that the one with highest top speed wins. The opposite in fact. Average speed is the relevant factor. Bolt was a phenomenon because his ability to not let that top speed decrease as much as his competitors. When you see Bolt run and he outclasses his opponents the last 30 meters; its not because he is running even faster, its because the opponents are losing speed earlier and way faster than him.
Those basics apply to a football player as well which is why its much more important to reach your own top speed as early as possible (regardless of what it is) and be able to not let it decrease too much. Cristiano Ronaldo is a great example of the latter.
Ergo: the top speed measured in a football game is pretty much irrelevant when measuring if a player is fast or not. The 30 yard dash or even 20 yard dash would be much more relevant.
Since top speed is in not really relevant it actually kinda comes down to opinion. And Dalot does not look quick/explosive to me.
That said: we agree on that he lacks a lot tactically so far.
This went a little bit long, so lets enjoy the game now!
@Johan07 I didn't use it as an evidence but as an example, I used the fact that he recovers distance most of the time as a sign of above average speed. I also pointed to the fact that his issue was elsewhere anyway, I'm not arguing about how fast he is but about the idea that it's a particular issue which again isn't an issue from a data standpoint or from an eye test standpoint. He is positioning and defensive skills are my concern. Though I disagree with your statement that he isn't fast but that's not something that matters much for me anyway.
How about that Russia NT right back (@harms)? Or Pavard?
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Pavard is a CB and has already signed for Bayern.
Thanks. Just checked, and Bayern got him (one of the best young player) for on 30+m.
A total bargain.
Would have been cheaper to buy both him and Dalot in the summer from Porto. Now it will cost 60m+.
Double Post...
Wan Bissaka is a no brainier. Hes only 21, English, plays week in week out for Palace and seems to nullify every LW/LF he comes up against.
Has he ever been linked to us? We seriously need a quality RB. Valencia should be sold, Young is still not a defender and Dalot needs time (and some competition)
Hopefully we go for Menuier