Richard Arnold cleaning house | Making 'significant changes' to Social Media strategy etc.

mitchmouse said:
Let's hope you are right but I would have preferred a complete clear out. I have the feeling he is (possibly correctly) tainted by being part of Woodward's "team". I'd also have like someone who'd don the job successfully elsewhere. But, let's see...
Click to expand...

So you, as one of the people attacking the person who’s seeing off all of these people that were involved in Woodward’s failed regime, feel like he might be tainted (in the eyes of who?) for having had a much smaller role in that regime?

Also who is there that’s been successful in that role at another club? Anyone that is successful as a CEO of another club, why would they want to leave a club they’re running successfully and no doubt winning lots to come here? Otherwise you’re looking at somebody taking a step up, and likely a bigger step up than Arnold is given he is aware of the scale of the role here.

Why is everybody stretching so far just to have something to complain about during a time of exciting upheaval? How could anybody have any energy to get angry about who is picked as a CEO?
 
phelans shorts said:
So you, as one of the people attacking the person who’s seeing off all of these people that were involved in Woodward’s failed regime, feel like he might be tainted (in the eyes of who?) for having had a much smaller role in that regime?

Also who is there that’s been successful in that role at another club? Anyone that is successful as a CEO of another club, why would they want to leave a club they’re running successfully and no doubt winning lots to come here? Otherwise you’re looking at somebody taking a step up, and likely a bigger step up than Arnold is given he is aware of the scale of the role here.

Why is everybody stretching so far just to have something to complain about during a time of exciting upheaval? How could anybody have any energy to get angry about who is picked as a CEO?
Click to expand...
Glad you are on the forum Mrs Arnold. but to answer who else: I'd have liked to have seen Edwin VdS get the job
 
mitchmouse said:
Glad you are on the forum Mrs Arnold. but to answer who else: I'd have liked to have seen Edwin VdS get the job
Click to expand...

So you find someone’s ex boss being bad at their job worse than helping somebody under investigation for sexual harassment and even handing them a new contract during said investigation?

A fascinating insight.
 
phelans shorts said:
So you find someone’s ex boss being bad at their job worse than helping somebody under investigation for sexual harassment and even handing them a new contract during said investigation?

A fascinating insight.
Click to expand...
I have absolutely no idea what you are on about - but sounds like you've run out of anything useful to add to the discussion
 
phelans shorts said:
Why is everybody stretching so far just to have something to complain about during a time of exciting upheaval? How could anybody have any energy to get angry about who is picked as a CEO?
Click to expand...

Crazy isn’t it? This is the first time in the post SAF era that we actually have things to be excited about. We have arguably the most promising manager in the game joining us, a clear out of the back room staff that have seemingly been doing a terrible job for the past decade, actually getting a proper structure in place rather than everything being vaguely handled by one or two people. This is the most excited I’ve been in a long time.
 
mitchmouse said:
I have absolutely no idea what you are on about - but sounds like you've run out of anything useful to add to the discussion
Click to expand...

He gave Marc Overmars a new contract and pay rise while he was under investigation. It’s not even old news.

Manchester United would also be a massive step up (far bigger than the one Arnold has taken), but hey, let’s go with jobs for the boys, that usually works out well.
 
phelans shorts said:
He gave Marc Overmars a new contract and pay rise while he was under investigation. It’s not even old news.
Click to expand...

Maybe that’s not considered wrong in the Netherlands like it is elsewhere. If someone is under investigation he might have done nothing wrong, and if they’re good at their job, you could lose them after the investigation. If they have done something wrong you can just fire them for misconduct anyway.

Overmars did get fired, didn’t he? You’d think he got promoted and a bonus for getting his lad out the way you keep carrying on about it!
 
Rocksy said:
Maybe that’s not considered wrong in the Netherlands like it is elsewhere. If someone is under investigation he might have done nothing wrong, and if they’re good at their job, you could lose them after the investigation. If they have done something wrong you can just fire them for misconduct anyway.

Overmars did get fired, didn’t he? You’d think he got promoted and a bonus for getting his lad out the way you keep carrying on about it!
Click to expand...

He resigned he wasn’t fired, and nobody said he should have been fired during the investigation.
 
alexthelion said:
What should he be doing right now to stop that?
Click to expand...
Make sure we have the best scouts available, back the manager with everything he's got to get the players we need (none of Woodward's "well you want £17m; here's £5m a lifetime sub to MUTV) and clear out anyone ETH sees as a problem. Get rid of any deadwood at the top of the club, meet with the fans more than once a decade - and not be afraid to change tack should things be obviously not working: one of the major reasons we are where we are was that the board stubbornly refused to see Ole was getting is nowhere
 
phelans shorts said:
He gave Marc Overmars a new contract and pay rise while he was under investigation. It’s not even old news.

Manchester United would also be a massive step up (far bigger than the one Arnold has taken), but hey, let’s go with jobs for the boys, that usually works out well.
Click to expand...
well if Arnold isn't "jobs for the boys", who is? I think you need to check out the meaning of the phrase. but I'm trying to work out just why you are so confident that Arnold is the answer
 
mitchmouse said:
well if Arnold isn't "jobs for the boys", who is? I think you need to check out the meaning of the phrase. but I'm trying to work out just why you are so confident that Arnold is the answer
Click to expand...

It was literally a joke about everyone complaining about ex players getting cushy jobs for nothing and the immediately pining for Edwin/van Persie to have roles.

I have no idea whether Arnold is the answer and will work out, but I’m very willing to give it a try given he’s lead our night of the long knives and is actively making changes.
 


Im sure this isn't really his doing but wasn’t sure where else to put it, being reported a few people leaving for the FA today
 
phelans shorts said:
It was literally a joke about everyone complaining about ex players getting cushy jobs for nothing and the immediately pining for Edwin/van Persie to have roles.

I have no idea whether Arnold is the answer and will work out, but I’m very willing to give it a try given he’s lead our night of the long knives and is actively making changes.
Click to expand...
Of course give him a chance - and the truth is we don't have choice! I just think pretty much all the board members are to blame (maybe in varying degrees) for where we find ourselves. It always seems odd to me that fans are calling for the heads of the owners (not totally unfounded) but not looking closer to home
 
bazza3727 said:
Just for context - Neil Warnock won eight promotions with pretty much run of the mill sides during his career, beside other achievements. Just because he rubbed people up the wrong way doesn't mean he wasn't successful. Do a bit of research before following the herd and denigrating people!
Click to expand...

In the bigger picture of things he was an atrocious manager for the majority of his career.


And I think you miss the context anyway, the context being he had experience but that experience certainly would never be good enough for him to be in contention for manager of Manchester United.
 
phelans shorts said:
They are answering them, you just want to ignore it. The youth team has just reached its first final in years, on Murtough’s restructure. The womens team just narrowly missed out on top 3 and the champions league, in their 3rd season of existence, under Murtough’s stewardship (now for sure the facilities incident shows that they may have grown too rapidly even for ourselves to keep track, especially with covid related issues forcing the shutting of the Cliff, and can definitely be held as something of a black mark).

There is literally no evidence pointing to Ralf being involved in the restructure. At all.
Click to expand...

Not ignoring anything, I asked how the mens team has faired under his tenure? It's been abysmal and we've declined. Again, he is by no means the single cause of our decline but considering its his feckin job title I think its absolutely fair to pin blame on him.

The youth side has had bursts of success consistently regardless of him being in that role or not, pretty sure Lingard, Pogba an Co won it in 2011. The majority again have not...developed into quality players.

Personally not invested in the womens team.

The highlighted part is nonsense, its been strongly reported across multiple media outlets that RR recommended ETH for the job to Murtagh.
 
Keefy18 said:
Not ignoring anything, I asked how the mens team has faired under his tenure? It's been abysmal and we've declined. Again, he is by no means the single cause of our decline but considering its his feckin job title I think its absolutely fair to pin blame on him.

The youth side has had bursts of success consistently regardless of him being in that role or not, pretty sure Lingard, Pogba an Co won it in 2011. The majority again have not...developed into quality players.

Personally not invested in the womens team.

The highlighted part is nonsense, its been strongly reported across multiple media outlets that RR recommended ETH for the job to Murtagh.
Click to expand...
I can't understand all these people rushing to defend Murtagh - does he have that many sons and grandsons and are they all on here...? To me, he's just another "suit", not much different to many of those who have gone before. Let's see how far he backs ETH in the transfer market, because he did sod all to help RR
 
Keefy18 said:
Not ignoring anything, I asked how the mens team has faired under his tenure? It's been abysmal and we've declined. Again, he is by no means the single cause of our decline but considering its his feckin job title I think its absolutely fair to pin blame on him.

The youth side has had bursts of success consistently regardless of him being in that role or not, pretty sure Lingard, Pogba an Co won it in 2011. The majority again have not...developed into quality players.

Personally not invested in the womens team.

The highlighted part is nonsense, its been strongly reported across multiple media outlets that RR recommended ETH for the job to Murtagh.
Click to expand...
Why the hell are you judging Murtough on the first team when he's only been in full command since around the time Woodward/Ole left. Hiring Rangnick was his first real big decision. You can only judge his success/failure 2-3 years from now. It's a long term role not a short term one.

Additionally, just because we were producing quality doesn't mean the youth system was functioning properly. Andy Mitten and other journalists were complaining about the setup. In fact, our own players were sending their kids to Man City's academy among others because of the standards that had fallen since Fergie left. We revamped the structure and brought in new people, poaching at least one person from a ladder-climbing job. Whether all that work bears fruit we'll know within the next 5 years or so. Mjebri would have been one of the people he recruited so that may be a test for the work along with how the likes of Garnacho does.

I don't want to be overly defending him because we've yet to see how all his work will turn out but give him a chance with an actual objective outlook not bias/agenda.
 
Keefy18 said:
Not ignoring anything, I asked how the mens team has faired under his tenure? It's been abysmal and we've declined. Again, he is by no means the single cause of our decline but considering its his feckin job title I think its absolutely fair to pin blame on him.

The youth side has had bursts of success consistently regardless of him being in that role or not, pretty sure Lingard, Pogba an Co won it in 2011. The majority again have not...developed into quality players.

Personally not invested in the womens team.

The highlighted part is nonsense, its been strongly reported across multiple media outlets that RR recommended ETH for the job to Murtagh.
Click to expand...
So the first team failures are attributed to him even though it had been going on for a few years, well before his arrival, but the youth team success can't be attributed to him because it was happening even before his arrival. Makes perfect sense.
 
Last edited:
roseguy64 said:
Why the hell are you judging Murtough on the first team when he's only been in full command since around the time Woodward/Ole left. Hiring Rangnick was his first real big decision. You can only judge his success/failure 2-3 years from now. It's a long term role not a short term one.

Additionally, just because we were producing quality doesn't mean the youth system was functioning properly. Andy Mitten and other journalists were complaining about the setup. In fact, our own players were sending their kids to Man City's academy among others because of the standards that had fallen since Fergie left. We revamped the structure and brought in new people, poaching at least one person from a ladder-climbing job. Whether all that work bears fruit we'll know within the next 5 years or so. Mjebri would have been one of the people he recruited so that may be a test for the work along with how the likes of Garnacho does.

I don't want to be overly defending him because we've yet to see how all his work will turn out but give him a chance with an actual objective outlook not bias/agenda.
Click to expand...

Varun1 said:
So the first team failures are attributed to him even though it has been going on for a few years, even before his arrival, but the youth team success can't be attributed to him because it was happening even before his arrival. Makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

Folks having been arguing with me a week solid now and most don't seem aware of the fact.....He joined United with Moyes in 2013 as head of "Football Development".

Has he developed some areas of football at the club, yeah sure he has like the women's team and the youth set up is in or around what it was anyway yet he his been praised for it.

The men's first team has not in anyway developed, it has declined and yet he has received a promotion on top of that and now has hired Ralf Rangnick to hand hold him through this new DoF role for the next 2 years. Now you can say there is no proof of that, but its staring us all in the face when basically most every media outlet is saying RR strongly advised the board to hire ETH.

There's very little evidence to suggest Murtagh has done a good job, never mind a great one!

If folks could read up on the guy and realize the role he was in and got promoted to...that'd be great.

mitchmouse said:
I can't understand all these people rushing to defend Murtagh - does he have that many sons and grandsons and are they all on here...? To me, he's just another "suit", not much different to many of those who have gone before. Let's see how far he backs ETH in the transfer market, because he did sod all to help RR
Click to expand...

Aye, yet everyone just rushes to Blame Woodward for everything wrong at the club... if it's not Ed its Judge.

There's enough blame to go around for all, but folks seem to want to absolve Murtagh...the very guy who was tasked with developing our football and hasn't.
 
Woodward was the ultimate yay or nay bloke in the whole structure. He wanted all the glory, so we dont know whether Murtough had enough 'clout' or even Arnold for that matter, to sway Woodward one way or another. Both only had their roles without their 'hands tied' since February and already there are big changes happening. We can only judge it footballwise from this summer and next season forward imo.
 
wolvored said:
Woodward was the ultimate yay or nay bloke in the whole structure. He wanted all the glory, so we dont know whether Murtough had enough 'clout' or even Arnold for that matter, to sway Woodward one way or another. Both only had their roles without their 'hands tied' since February and already there are big changes happening. We can only judge it footballwise from this summer and next season forward imo.
Click to expand...

He wasn't really, it obviously was the Glazers.

The media just honed in a guy to blame it all on and that was Ed.

He was solely responsible for the financials, Murtagh was thee guy responsible for the football side of the club since 2013 primarily.
 
Keefy18 said:
Folks having been arguing with me a week solid now and most don't seem aware of the fact.....He joined United with Moyes in 2013 as head of "Football Development".

Has he developed some areas of football at the club, yeah sure he has like the women's team and the youth set up is in or around what it was anyway yet he his been praised for it.

The men's first team has not in anyway developed, it has declined and yet he has received a promotion on top of that and now has hired Ralf Rangnick to hand hold him through this new DoF role for the next 2 years. Now you can say there is no proof of that, but its staring us all in the face when basically most every media outlet is saying RR strongly advised the board to hire ETH.

There's very little evidence to suggest Murtagh has done a good job, never mind a great one!

If folks could read up on the guy and realize the role he was in and got promoted to...that'd be great.



Aye, yet everyone just rushes to Blame Woodward for everything wrong at the club... if it's not Ed its Judge.

There's enough blame to go around for all, but folks seem to want to absolve Murtagh...the very guy who was tasked with developing our football and hasn't.
Click to expand...
He was not involved in the first team until his promotion last year. I have no idea why you keep bringing up the first team when people have pointed out to you that he had no direct involvement in it. He was working on the women's team and the academy. That's what he was developing. The men's first team is a whole separate thing.

Take your blinkers off.
 
It’s worrying that the “hierarchy” tried to persuade ten Hag to retain Phelan - suggests to me that maybe things haven’t changed as much behind the scenes as we thought, how on earth could they possibly think retaining Phelan is a good idea beyond saving a bit of cash in compensation?

In the end, they’ve yielded but that in itself is a worry - a manager shouldn’t be making all the key decisions, that isn’t a functioning, modern club.
 
sugar_kane said:
It’s worrying that the “hierarchy” tried to persuade ten Hag to retain Phelan - suggests to me that maybe things haven’t changed as much behind the scenes as we thought, how on earth could they possibly think retaining Phelan is a good idea beyond saving a bit of cash in compensation?

In the end, they’ve yielded but that in itself is a worry - a manager shouldn’t be making all the key decisions, that isn’t a functioning, modern club.
Click to expand...
Where have you found out about this? I was wondering what was happening to Phelan, and haven’t seen anything.
 
sugar_kane said:
It’s worrying that the “hierarchy” tried to persuade ten Hag to retain Phelan - suggests to me that maybe things haven’t changed as much behind the scenes as we thought, how on earth could they possibly think retaining Phelan is a good idea beyond saving a bit of cash in compensation?

In the end, they’ve yielded but that in itself is a worry - a manager shouldn’t be making all the key decisions, that isn’t a functioning, modern club.
Click to expand...
The club probably tried to avoid further costs by sacking him. Still needs to be done but I would not be surprised if there is still some „old“ influence behind the scenes
 
Revaulx said:
Where have you found out about this? I was wondering what was happening to Phelan, and haven’t seen anything.
Click to expand...

Athletic article today about Steve McClaren, the quotes are doing the rounds on Twitter etc.
 
Happy with all the departures, but surely it is a mark of concern that Murtough clearly botched his first big decision: Appointing Ralf Rangnick as interim. And even more the people brought in as RRs assistans, which to all appearances have played a very significant role in marring RRs tenure. Like most, I thought at the time that Rangnick looked like a good choice, but it clearly has not worked out well.
 
justsomebloke said:
Happy with all the departures, but surely it is a mark of concern that Murtough clearly botched his first big decision: Appointing Ralf Rangnick as interim. And even more the people brought in as RRs assistans, which to all appearances have played a very significant role in marring RRs tenure. Like most, I thought at the time that Rangnick looked like a good choice, but it clearly has not worked out well.
Click to expand...
I think it was the right choice, but unfortunately Rangnick wasn't able to bring the backroom team with him that he wanted to (Lars Kornetka choosing not to follow him was a huge blow) and that coupled with our shithouse dressing room doomed him.
 
sugar_kane said:
Athletic article today about Steve McClaren, the quotes are doing the rounds on Twitter etc.
Click to expand...
Ah ok.

It hardly seems unreasonable that the club wanted to check that he’d looked at the existing staff properly before binning them off. Maybe they should have done the same with Moyes :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.