Ricardo Rodriguez

gofelx said:
I think it's the opposite really. Rodriguez was bought for more than 10m € a few years a go so he was already highly rated back in 2012. Since then he has developed into a top left back who's not only good defensively but extremely effective going forward and very good on the ball.
In the world cup he had to deal with Messi and Di Maria who was on top of his game back then and Rodriguez completely bossed that game.

With Shaw I'm not sure if he's gonna fulfill his potential really. It's always the same with young talented players, "He's young and will only improve". Unfortunately that's not how it works. And from what I've seen Shaw is able to defend very well but he's nowhere near as versatile as the top left backs in the world. Today it's not enough for a left back to just defend, and I don't know if Shaw can add the offensive qualities to his game. There's huge pressure on him with his price tag and with the media attention he's getting, he certainly wouldn't be the first player to not justify the investment. In the end Shaw was a big gamble from my point of view... I guess only the future can tell ;)
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Chelsea have two good LBs who neither go forward that well and it works out for them. And before you mention it yes Chelsea had a shocker Wednesday night but, they will still finish this season with a double.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Chelsea have two good LBs who neither go forward that well and it works out for them. And before you mention it yes Chelsea had a shocker Wednesday night but, they will still finish this season with a double.
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Azpilicueta is certainly not great going forward, but Filipe Luis is a very good attacking left back, at least he was at Atletico. Maybe Mourinho coached that out of him though, I do not know. Unless you're talking about someone else?

But Chelseas set up is more the exception than the rule. With Azpilicueta they sacrifice an attacking option for more defensive stability but they compensate with the rest of the team. With Hazard, Oscar, Willian etc. they have many creative players and Ivanovic is constantly bombing forward.

As you said it works out for Chelsea but in my opinion they beat most of the average teams because they have the better quality. When you focus on the big games though they usually have the tactical set up to just sit back, have a solid defensive line and then get a goal from a set piece or from a counter. They are simply unable to really have a go against the big teams or at least they never try it in those games.
In this system a defensive minded left back is certainly working but I can't imagine having a player like that for a Barcelona or Bayern side, as they play a totally different brand of football.
 
Snow said:
Nowhere near his level yet? Of course. He's 19. At that age Cole was getting his first team debut. Shaw already has 80 appearances, most of them in the PL. At 19 he's come a longer way than Cole at 19. That is what was paid for. Also, by getting him this early he can be qualified as a home grown player. That's massive. It's becoming more and more important in Europe.

What was Rodriguez like 3 years ago? You have any idea? I think you need to look at the bigger picture rather than the flavor of the month.
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Good point. Something I had never considered. If we sell Jones or Evans, I think that would be one less HG player as well so having someone like that is quite important in the Premier League let alone Europe.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Good point. Something I had never considered. If we sell Jones or Evans, I think that would be one less HG player as well so having someone like that is quite important in the Premier League let alone Europe.
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Don't think Jones even counts as Man. United HG.
A “club-trained player” is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which he turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months.
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Snow said:
Don't think Jones even counts as Man. United HG.
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No he's not. Sorry I was speaking mainly in terms of Premier League registration which doesn't differentiate between Club or Country trained. Since we sold Cleverley (well pretty much) and Welbeck and then decide to sell two of Evans, Jones or Smalling assuming LVG doesn't rate any of them we could be lacking in Home Grown players which really does add to the premium of player like Shaw.
 
Snow said:
Flavor of the month is a figure of speech. You know what I mean. 18 months is no time in football. Less than 12 months ago one of the best strikers in the world was playing for Monaco and now that same person is playing for Man. United and isn't a top 20 striker going by his performances.

Shaw is the safer choice. Especially considering the amount of players brought into the team. You want someone who's used to the league. Plus, like I mentioned before, he's going to count as home grown in the future. Not just in nation but at club. A big difference then it would be buying him 3 months from now.

Do you actually watch Wolfsburg play on a regular basis? Answer this honestly. I have my doubts about so many people commenting on him that don't show their face in the Bundesliga thread.

I was comparing him to Cole for a reason. Cole was England's nr. 1 left back for over 10 years and one of the best, and at times the best, left back in the world. Shaw in his mold. Can you say the same for Ricardo Rodriguez? I certainly can't and I don't think the club would either. You need to take that into consideration when looking at the money factor.
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Eh? Shaw isn't remotely like Ashley Cole.
 
justboy68 said:
Eh? Shaw isn't remotely like Ashley Cole.
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O no? My mistake. I thought they were both English left backs both regarded as one of the talented of their generation where their main strength is defending rather than attacking. What's so unlike?
 
Snow said:
Why do you think that?
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First of all i really like Rodriguez as player and i would have loved his signing last summer (I was equally happy with Shaw) but....

1) Rodriguez is 3 years older than Shaw....for me 3 years is a lot at this football age.
Rodriguez wasn't "extremely effective going forward" with 19 and i think 90% of his goals are penalties or free-kicks.
I'm very pleased with Shaw's defending after Evra's poor defending in the last 2-3 years.....only time will tell if he can improve his attacking game.

2) Rodriguez plays for Wolfsburg....no pressure at all....even at Hamburg would be more pressure for him than at Wolfsburg.
Shaw has the 30m price tag and he plays now for Manchester United....he must learn to cope with that and everyone should know/accept that isn't easy.
I always say in the "Shaw thread" that we'll see the best of him just in 2 years.....of course he hasn't played world-class so far but i don't think no one has expect that of him and Mr Rodriguez would probably also struggling in our current side.
 
Snow said:
O no? My mistake. I thought they were both English left backs both regarded as one of the talented of their generation where their main strength is defending rather than attacking. What's so unlike?
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Cole was more of an attacking LB when he was at Arsenal. And Shaw is bigger, stronger, more physical and better in the air.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
First of all i really like Rodriguez as player and i would have loved his signing last summer (I was equally happy with Shaw) but....

1) Rodriguez is 3 years older than Shaw....for me 3 years is a lot at this football age.
Rodriguez wasn't "extremely effective going forward" with 19 and i think 90% of his goals are penalties or free-kicks.
I'm very pleased with Shaw's defending after Evra's poor defending in the last 2-3 years.....only time will tell if he can improve his attacking game.

2) Rodriguez plays for Wolfsburg....no pressure at all....even at Hamburg would be more pressure for him than at Wolfsburg.
Shaw has the 30m price tag and he plays now for Manchester United....he must learn to cope with that and everyone should know/accept that isn't easy.
I always say in the "Shaw thread" that we'll see the best of him just in 2 years.....of course he hasn't played world-class so far but i don't think no one has expect that of him and Mr Rodriguez would probably also struggling in our current side.
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I agree with you. That doesn't mean that they won't be compared as they are both left backs and this is the transfer forum.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Cole was more of an attacking LB when he was at Arsenal. And Shaw is bigger, stronger, more physical and better in the air.
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Cole was primarily a good defender. His asset up front came later in his career. It's something you develop with age. Shaw is bigger yes. That's something he has over Cole. There's nothing in Cole's prime game that suggests that Shaw can't be that as well as being taller and stronger and better in the air. I'm comparing Shaw to a 19 year old Cole here and talking about what he can become. What I see is excellent. The things that matter the most for a youngster. He's confident, he's smart and knows the game, he knows how to defend and physically he's in good condition. There's really nothing against him becoming the one of the worlds best full backs.

It's better to know how defend properly and then balance out how you attack than vice versa. Give me a 19 year Shaw over a 19 year old Dani Alves or Marcelo any day.
 
Snow said:
Cole was primarily a good defender. His asset up front came later in his career.
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Wasn't Ashley Cole a converted striker? My opinion on him is the exact opposite of yours. Excellent attacking left back who developed into a good defender as he gained more experience.
 
POF said:
Wasn't Ashley Cole a converted striker? My opinion on him is the exact opposite of yours. Excellent attacking left back who developed into a good defender as he gained more experience.
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Yup.

Cole joined Arsenal as a teenager and made his debut against Middlesbrough in November 1999 at the age of 18. A striker in his formative years, Cole had by now been transformed into an attacking left back and his reputation was enhanced with a successful loan spell at Crystal Palace early in 2000.
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http://www.arsenal.com/history/profiles/136/ashley-cole

Ashley Cole went on to become an excellent attacking left back at Arsenal but the defensive side of his game really developed at Chelsea. Which is why a lot of people claim that Cole never justified his early promise, in the sense that by being a more pragmatic defender, he sacrificed a lot of the attacking flair which made him so exciting to watch.
 
Snow said:
O no? My mistake. I thought they were both English left backs both regarded as one of the talented of their generation where their main strength is defending rather than attacking. What's so unlike?
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They are alike in aspects not related to their play style. When you say 'in the mold of' it usually means in terms of how they play, they are almost at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of full back styles in my opinion. Shaw is a typical powerful lung busting runner, whereas Cole was more of an agile, technical player. Obviously all top fullbacks should be able to defend, albeit Cole developed the defensive side of his game on top of (perhaps at the expense of) his natural attacking game as a youngster, whereas with Shaw it is the other way around. So another difference again. The homegrown thing will certainly be a bonus but being English doesn't make it more likely he will become the best left back in the world simply because his predecessor was at a time. I just found it a strange comparison, you'd be better off comparing him to Gary Neville in my opinion.
 
If we wanted him, then we should have signed him last summer. He's twice the player Shaw is and is only 3 years older. He's very good defending and one of the best attackign left backs in the world.

Shaw is very good defending but without exaggerating, I really doubt that I've ever seen a full back who is as bad as him when it comes to attacking. Saying that, Shaw could improve considering how young he is (but Rodriguez too).

I really don't think that signing Shaw to be our first choice left back wasn't a good idea considering that he's nowhere near good enough currently. He may be great for the future - although we said the saem for Jones and Rafael, and it looks to have gone bad - so his signing made sense for the future. Rodriguez on the other side was good enough to immediately became our first choice and would have given us 10+ years of service too.

Last summer, I would have chosen him instead of Shaw. But now, it doesn't make sense so we can only hope that Shaw improves and becomes as good as him. Cause he has a lot of potential.

@Snow, Shaw was anything but the safe choice. An 18 years old player becoming the most expensive full back of all time, a safe choice? Not a chance.
 
The only thing Rodriguez is better than Shaw at is crossing. He reminds me of Baines in the fact he looks great when going forward and whipping in balls, but apart from that he has average speed, and doesn't stand out too much when defending.

Shaw already has shown his prowess in 1v1 defending against some of the best wingers in England. He just needs to stay fit and he will get his attacking play sorted - he is clearly told to keep it simple IMO.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Of course i see what you mean but i just wanted to say there are obviously few reasons why Rodriguez is currently better than Shaw
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Of course. Filipe Luis is also currently a better player than Shaw.
justboy68 said:
They are alike in aspects not related to their play style. When you say 'in the mold of' it usually means in terms of how they play, they are almost at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of full back styles in my opinion. Shaw is a typical powerful lung busting runner, whereas Cole was more of an agile, technical player. Obviously all top fullbacks should be able to defend, albeit Cole developed the defensive side of his game on top of (perhaps at the expense of) his natural attacking game as a youngster, whereas with Shaw it is the other way around. So another difference again. The homegrown thing will certainly be a bonus but being English doesn't make it more likely he will become the best left back in the world simply because his predecessor was at a time. I just found it a strange comparison, you'd be better off comparing him to Gary Neville in my opinion.
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Fair enough. I was not just talking about style but also their mentality on the pitch. Sometimes you can just tell a player won't become as good as he could be by the way his mental game is. Sometimes you're sure that it won't be a problem.
 
Revan said:
If we wanted him, then we should have signed him last summer. He's twice the player Shaw is and is only 3 years older. He's very good defending and one of the best attackign left backs in the world.

Shaw is very good defending but without exaggerating, I really doubt that I've ever seen a full back who is as bad as him when it comes to attacking. Saying that, Shaw could improve considering how young he is (but Rodriguez too).

I really don't think that signing Shaw to be our first choice left back wasn't a good idea considering that he's nowhere near good enough currently. He may be great for the future - although we said the saem for Jones and Rafael, and it looks to have gone bad - so his signing made sense for the future. Rodriguez on the other side was good enough to immediately became our first choice and would have given us 10+ years of service too.

Last summer, I would have chosen him instead of Shaw. But now, it doesn't make sense so we can only hope that Shaw improves and becomes as good as him. Cause he has a lot of potential.

@Snow, Shaw was anything but the safe choice. An 18 years old player becoming the most expensive full back of all time, a safe choice? Not a chance.
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If you think that the money was a single payment you're dreaming. He's expensive, sure, but still safe. Worst case scenario you've bought a decent defender. That's safe. Also, his wages aren't big. People always fail to mention wages which, for expensive players, can amount to a lot of money. Kaka was "free" for Orlando but they're paying him about 7m per year. That's 14-21m for a 32+ year old player. That's not mentioning signing on fees or agent fees.
 
Snow said:
If you think that the money was a single payment you're dreaming. He's expensive, sure, but still safe. Worst case scenario you've bought a decent defender. That's safe. Also, his wages aren't big. People always fail to mention wages which, for expensive players, can amount to a lot of money. Kaka was "free" for Orlando but they're paying him about 7m per year. That's 14-21m for a 32+ year old player. That's not mentioning signing on fees or agent fees.
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His reported wages were around 100k/week. So, not that much cheap.

At worst case scenario, we broke the all time record for a full back who didn't became good enough for us. Best case scenario, is the new Ashley Cole. No way to know now, which will happen.

But safe, to spend all those money on an 18 years old left back who currently isn't that great? Not safe at all. Probably not wise at all. Will it be justified on long term? We'll see on a few years.
 
Revan said:
His reported wages were around 100k/week. So, not that much cheap.

At worst case scenario, we broke the all time record for a full back who didn't became good enough for us. Best case scenario, is the new Ashley Cole. No way to know now, which will happen.

But safe, to spend all those money on an 18 years old left back who currently isn't that great? Not safe at all. Probably not wise at all. Will it be justified on long term? We'll see on a few years.
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And that's what, based on a Mourinho comment who had to explain why he bought the 29 year old Luis instead of 19 year old Shaw?

He's as good as most full backs in the league already. At 19. You pay money for that. Why do you care about a transfer record any way? Means f-all. The TV money the club is getting is obscene. The sponsorship money the club is getting is obscene. Money basically doesn't matter.

I thought this is what people wanted? So much complaining in the past years over the club missing out on a few players because they were haggling over a few million quid. Meanwhile City and Chelsea came and paid it, no questions. Seems to me that in the case of Shaw, the tables have turned. You don't think Chelsea made an offer on Shaw when their manager was talking about him in public? Of course they wanted him. I bet you Woody priced them out of the race. Good.
 
Has scored two goals so far against Stuttgart: A penalty and a free-kick from around 50 yards.
 
saivet said:
50 yards? Any vine or gif of this free kick?
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It wasn't really planned to be a direct freekick goal. The keeper waited too long for another player to get a touch on it and then didn't reach it anymore. Lucky goal.

 
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