Replacing Carrick this summer is critical

Brwned

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Blind is not the man for the job - the number's don't lie...

Midfield%20Anchor%20Comparison.png


Midfield%20Anchor%20Comparison%20Graph_1.png

Note: The red blocks are the three games when we had Rooney + Fletcher/Fellaini and Herrera at the base.

The graph is just a simple way of illustrating the trend of points/results in each game with these players as the anchor in midfield. It shows quite clearly that the only time we've had any kind of consistency is when Carrick's been at the base of the midfield. Worth noting that Carrick started in the middle of a back three in that Liverpool game too, so you can extend his winning run by an extra game considering he was doing the same thing he always does - providing that cool, calm, calculated presence from a deep position.

Based on that I think it's fair to see we shouldn't be too concerned about what Carrick's influence on the pitch now and perhaps even into his late 30s, but it's becoming increasingly clear that age is catching up to him in the form of injuries. He's no longer the reliable ever-present he once was and we need a very able replacement in the short-term and a top class replacement in the long-term.

Blind has done fairly well this year on an individual level for his first season in a new country - he's shown his versatility and he's been pretty consistent - but ultimately you can't deny the correlation between the results/performances and his position at the base of our midfield. Part of it is because Carrick has played so well when he has been on the pitch this season, but the other part has been that Blind hasn't done well enough to earn his place as a regular starter in such a key position.

His passing is very safe and that's one of the biggest factors in our lack of penetration and laboured play. His pressing is very aggressive and often leaves us exposed on the counter-attack, and this is exacerbated by him being one of the slowest players in the team and being able to recover when he's been taken out of the game.

It's easy to say that after a terrible performance today from both himself and the team in which we lacked any pace in our penetration in possession and we were exposed on the counter, but both of these things have been a regularly theme this season. Except when Carrick has played. We need someone who can provide that defensive screen along with the penetrative passing that we so sorely lack on days like these, but along with that we really need someone who can be - as van Gaal says - a coach on the pitch.
 
There really is a lack of players who can defend, pass and control games as well as he can right now IMO.

I struggle to think of anybody outside of maybe Kroos, possibly Busquets. Matic would have been ideal but he's not available, maybe Carvalho but I'm not that sure on him.

Who else is that type of player?
 
The importance of getting his replacement right cannot be overstated. I can think of players in his position with some of his qualities but not all of them (at least to Carrick's level).
 
Why do you say replacing him this summer? We just need a guy as a backup to Carrick who can replace him when he leave/retire, he still does his job very effectively.
 
Carrick will miss a lot of games next season, it's inevitable given his age so we have to bring someone in, blind is a capable backup but nothing more.
 
Agreed. Apart from addressing the De Gea situation, acquiring Carrick's eventual replacement, or perhaps immediate partner, is our top priority, moreso than a CB.

No one argues it any longer, has been by far our best outfield player in recent seasons. When he's in, we win; when he's out, we lose.
 
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Why do you say replacing him this summer? We just need a guy as a backup to Carrick who can replace him when he leave/retire, he still does his job very effectively.
I think that is what he means, just worded it badly. Michael can still do a vital job, but we need someone to cover and as you say be of the quality to replace him. Trouble is would a world class player want to do that or do we need to find a top quality younger player?
 
Its crazy to think not that long ago people were saying we need someone better than Carrick to play next to him because he isn't good enough. Then I was reading a lot of people saying he's past it. Now he's our most important player.
That says something of United as a whole, at the moment. We need to get this right.
 
Replacement in the sense of first backup and then replacing him when he retires.

I think that is what he means, just worded it badly. Michael can still do a vital job, but we need someone to cover and as you say be of the quality to replace him. Trouble is would a world class player want to do that or do we need to find a top quality younger player?
Sorry about the misunderstanding and yes we need to replace him.
 
Why do you say replacing him this summer? We just need a guy as a backup to Carrick who can replace him when he leave/retire, he still does his job very effectively.

He's started less than half of our games this season due to injuries so we don't need a back-up, we need someone who is on the same level as him.
 
There really is a lack of players who can defend, pass and control games as well as he can right now IMO.

I struggle to think of anybody outside of maybe Kroos, possibly Busquets. Matic would have been ideal but he's not available, maybe Carvalho but I'm not that sure on him.

Who else is that type of player?

Matic is absolute quality in that role. Kroos isn't anywhere near as defensively aware. I'm not going to say Busquets because I hate the diving drama queen.

I haven't seen enough of Strootman to call his name but maybe him? Schweini? He's getting old though.
 
Matic is absolute quality in that role. Kroos isn't anywhere near as defensively aware. I'm not going to say Busquets because I hate the diving drama queen.

I haven't seen enough of Strootman to call his name but maybe him? Schweini? He's getting old though.
Strootman could definitely do the job but then his knee issues are a big worry, I don't think I would want to spend 30+million on him to then miss half the season with injuries.

I think we would have to go for a more destroyer type player who wins the ball and then passes it on to the more creative players, they are more gettable. Carrick does the whole job though which is why it's so hard to find.
 
It's pretty remarkable how disorganised we become without him. I said before that Blind doesn't look like he's going to be able to replace Carrick and I still believe that. Need proper top quality in that position. Maybe someone like Schniederlin would do well.
 
What about Khedira?

Isn't he on a free in the summer?
 
I wonder if we might promote within, I think Pogba should have been blooded for this role all them years ago but that boat has sailed. Does Fosu-Mensah play this role?
 
Yeah, we undoubtedly still need another central midfielder who can control and run games. Blind is a very good player, but he's more of a consistent, neat passer than anything else. He's not the type who I think you rely on to run games, if that makes sense.
 
We look better with Carrick but I think there's a fair few factors involved which shouldn't be insurmountable to Blind. And with Carricks age and injury issues to disregard Blind would be silly, especially since he has done well as an understudy on the whole. He's still young, in a new team, in a new league, hit with injuries, playing multiple roles in multiple systems and is definitely looking tired which seems to have taken some toll. Why does this apply to Sanchez, Di Maria, Fabregas but not Blind? Remember, he played a lot in an incredibly demanding role at the WC equalling that of finalists.

He doesn't have the authority or presense of Carrick, he doesn't receive the same level of trust from team mates or respect from opposition. That's something that can come though, no one starts with it. Hell, Carrick lacked those just last season!

He's playing a high press game in a system with no cover for when they overrun. Sitting back, waiting and covering those channels is less risk averse, which is why Carrick has looked more comfortable and less dangerous. He just needs to pick his moments, or more, choose his teams better. He's got more interceptions in the oppositions half than any other player in Europe's top 5 league - that should tell you how good he is at it, along with his high tackling rate. It's just a case of finding the balance in our system (so there's a little more cover for it, else we just accept the natural risk) and doing it against the right opposition.

His more disciplined and cautious passing is far more a demonstration of his Ajax training than a question of quality. He's played some magnificent balls but looks to far less often. He chooses to rotate quickly through one touch passing because that's how it's always been for him, and likely what Van Gaal wants from him (he can ask Blind for different things than Carrick, despite playing the same position). Similarly on the high pressing - it's his natural habit to do so, there's no reason to think he couldn't sit a bit deeper and cover channels when required.

His footballing intelligence is massive. The German team who won last years World Cup used him as a case study for their defending through the knockout stages and into the final. A handful of poor games aside he has been one of a very few constants in a United team struggling for any semblance of long term consistency - and he's done it against the odds (new team, league, systems etc. mentioned earlier). His capacity to learn seems huge when you consider it all. Take away that new league naivety, give him a proper rest and with time I expect to see more freedom of expression in his passing and a more pragmatic approach in his defending choices (high press/deep sit).

No, he's not Carrick. But 24 year old Carrick is a far different animal to the beast we have seen lately. All the same stuff was thrown at Carrick before.. infact, Carrick was essentially the Tom Cleverley before Tom Cleverley in that regard. He was the personification that United fans had for 'not good enough' and 'passenger'.

Footballs a thinking mans game. Don't discount Blind. He could be absolutely massive for us yet.

I'm not saying we shouldn't get another player in, but I don't agree with the notion that Blind's PTG ratio is definitive proof that he isn't/couldn't be the man.

I may aswel copy this that I posted in the Blind thread. Apologies for it's length, I fecking hate long posts too.
 
Carrick still got least two season left in him,but we certainly need someone as his replacement,at least from today's match we can understand that Blind is not the right person,we need someone physically strong,good positional sense and good passing ability.Strootman was rightly identified by LVG but he's injured and we are not sure how good he is after injury.May be Gundogan for coming summer and Strootman on next summer(if at all he's alright) could provide some insurance.
 
Agenda poster!

Seriously though, at the moment Blind definitely doesnt have the discipline to play the Carrick role. I can see Blind functioning well in a 2-man midfield alongside someone like Carrick, but frankly, Herrera or Fellaini could do that just as easily.
That said, I do believe Blind has some room for improvement and he may be able to evolve into more of a Carrick type of player - he [Blind] seems to be an intelligent player, and I suspect he could be moulded into a good Carrick replacement if LVG saw fit. The question is how long it would take, whether we are prepared to wait that long, and if there are alternatives available.

As things stand, if there was a really good "Carrick replacement" available this summer then I would make them a priority - but I am not sure how many players are around who can do that job.
 
Give Blind 14 games with Fellaini and Ander in CM, Rooney up front and Smalling at CB.

Blind gets to play week after week having to deal with the black hole Di Maria leaves defensively when he plays as a CM, Carrick gets to play with all of our players fit and in their best positions. How is that a comparison?
 
It's pretty remarkable how disorganised we become without him. I said before that Blind doesn't look like he's going to be able to replace Carrick and I still believe that. Need proper top quality in that position. Maybe someone like Schniederlin would do well.
Blind doesn't have the physicality. Michael is a big lad and does not get knocked about so easily.
 
Agenda poster!

Seriously though, at the moment Blind definitely doesnt have the discipline to play the Carrick role. I can see Blind functioning well in a 2-man midfield alongside someone like Carrick, but frankly, Herrera or Fellaini could do that just as easily.
That said, I do believe Blind has some room for improvement and he may be able to evolve into more of a Carrick type of player - he [Blind] seems to be an intelligent player, and I suspect he could be moulded into a good Carrick replacement if LVG saw fit. The question is how long it would take, whether we are prepared to wait that long, and if there are alternatives available.

As things stand, if there was a really good "Carrick replacement" available this summer then I would make them a priority - but I am not sure how many players are around who can do that job.

I remember not being that impressed with Carrick and Blind as a duo; when watching Carrick and Herrera, they seemed to fit better, contrasting and complimenting each other's games. Carrick was the player who could control the game, with Herrera being the more energetic one who can often burst forward. Although Carrick and Blind could potentially form a good partnership over time, or even work with Herrera in a 3-man midfield where Herrera is the furthest forward of the three.
 
It'll be easier shaping the team to account for Carrick's pending departure/demise, than finding an exact Carrick clone. After all, he didn't exactly replace Keane.
 
Javi Martinez would be an ideal candidate, I think. I've no idea what Guardiola has planned for him when fit, or what his role will be at Bayern going forward. @Balu might have something to offer here?

We're an injury to Herrera or Fellaini away from having to play Rooney in midfield. The box to box central midfield position is therefore more urgent. We can manage with Blind and Carrick at the base for another season. If we can bring in two midfielders then great, but I don't think it's all that realistic.

Blind wasn't very good today, and the statistics do favour Carrick's presence heavily, but I'm not sure that the defeat today, in isolation, was due to Carrick's lack of availability. We conceded some horrible goals and our attacking players spurned some good opportunities.
 
Blind doesn't have the physicality. Michael is a big lad and does not get knocked about so easily.

I'm not really sure it's about physicality, though. Scholes wasn't a particularly big guy, but it didn't matter because he was a superb footballer. Passing is more important for a creative-type player.
 
Blind tries to play the role like a DM who has pace which is why he gets caught out, Carrick recognizes his lack of pace so he positions himself accordingly. On the ball it's not even close, Carrick's pass selection and awareness of when to play key incisive passes is miles ahead. Blind is a decent squad player but he isn't Carrick's replacement.
 
Is there no possibility of Blind improving, developing and kicking on next season at a higher level? Personally not sure of that myself, as he just doesn't have the long passing game.
 
There is players out there with some of the abilitys of Carrick, but they are not close to his qualities and what he gives to the team.

Gundogan would be great, but seeing as he is the more attacking version of Carrick you would probably need a player like Schneiderlin/Martinez besides him to get the right balance.

Schneiderlin is a pretty decent passer and very good defensively, but he doesn't dictate play like Verratti, Gundogan, Alonso, Carrick etc.
I know only of possible available players Gonalons who is a bit similar, but i'm not sure he is on the same level.

A change of approach with a defensive box-to-box and a playmaker like Gundogan + Bender(just as an example) would be the way forward.
 
I remember not being that impressed with Carrick and Blind as a duo; when watching Carrick and Herrera, they seemed to fit better, contrasting and complimenting each other's games. Carrick was the player who could control the game, with Herrera being the more energetic one who can often burst forward. Although Carrick and Blind could potentially form a good partnership over time, or even work with Herrera in a 3-man midfield where Herrera is the furthest forward of the three.

Fair enough, but I dont think any of those combinations have been given enough time to really see. Its irrelevant anyway as we arent playing that sort of a system at the moment.
 
What about Khedira?

Isn't he on a free in the summer?

I really like Khedira. Spatially aware. Able to pick passes from short-medium range. Mobile. Great box to box player. Severely underrated here. He's approaching his 30s and I was calling for him to be signed after the 2010 World Cup. Doesn't have Carrick's ability to control the tempo of games but he would add dynamism and let another player do the creative work. As Adam said, Carrick does everything and is the complete package so adding someone like Khedira would be give us steel in midfield.

Strootman could definitely do the job but then his knee issues are a big worry, I don't think I would want to spend 30+million on him to then miss half the season with injuries.

I think we would have to go for a more destroyer type player who wins the ball and then passes it on to the more creative players, they are more gettable. Carrick does the whole job though which is why it's so hard to find.

You're bang on there. Ironically, Carrick would be a nightmare for our current squad to play against since he's so good at removing passing lanes and options from the opposition and reading the game.
 
Blind is not the man for the job - the number's don't lie...

Midfield%20Anchor%20Comparison.png


Midfield%20Anchor%20Comparison%20Graph_1.png

Note: The red blocks are the three games when we had Rooney + Fletcher/Fellaini and Herrera at the base.

The graph is just a simple way of illustrating the trend of points/results in each game with these players as the anchor in midfield. It shows quite clearly that the only time we've had any kind of consistency is when Carrick's been at the base of the midfield. Worth noting that Carrick started in the middle of a back three in that Liverpool game too, so you can extend his winning run by an extra game considering he was doing the same thing he always does - providing that cool, calm, calculated presence from a deep position.

Based on that I think it's fair to see we shouldn't be too concerned about what Carrick's influence on the pitch now and perhaps even into his late 30s, but it's becoming increasingly clear that age is catching up to him in the form of injuries. He's no longer the reliable ever-present he once was and we need a very able replacement in the short-term and a top class replacement in the long-term.

Blind has done fairly well this year on an individual level for his first season in a new country - he's shown his versatility and he's been pretty consistent - but ultimately you can't deny the correlation between the results/performances and his position at the base of our midfield. Part of it is because Carrick has played so well when he has been on the pitch this season, but the other part has been that Blind hasn't done well enough to earn his place as a regular starter in such a key position.

His passing is very safe and that's one of the biggest factors in our lack of penetration and laboured play. His pressing is very aggressive and often leaves us exposed on the counter-attack, and this is exacerbated by him being one of the slowest players in the team and being able to recover when he's been taken out of the game.

It's easy to say that after a terrible performance today from both himself and the team in which we lacked any pace in our penetration in possession and we were exposed on the counter, but both of these things have been a regularly theme this season. Except when Carrick has played. We need someone who can provide that defensive screen along with the penetrative passing that we so sorely lack on days like these, but along with that we really need someone who can be - as van Gaal says - a coach on the pitch.

Good post. I was wondering if replacing Cartick is not a challnge as big as replacing Feergie was.

No matter how it sounds think about for a minute or two.
 
There really is a lack of players who can defend, pass and control games as well as he can right now IMO.

I struggle to think of anybody outside of maybe Kroos, possibly Busquets. Matic would have been ideal but he's not available, maybe Carvalho but I'm not that sure on him.

Who else is that type of player?

Morgan Schneiderlin
 
Its crazy to think not that long ago people were saying we need someone better than Carrick to play next to him because he isn't good enough. Then I was reading a lot of people saying he's past it. Now he's our most important player.
That says something of United as a whole, at the moment. We need to get this right.

Despite that i dont recall any "Carrick out" band wagon. Most people appriciated his talent.eventhough his form might have been dire.
 
Its crazy to think not that long ago people were saying we need someone better than Carrick to play next to him because he isn't good enough. Then I was reading a lot of people saying he's past it. Now he's our most important player.
That says something of United as a whole, at the moment. We need to get this right.
I've been saying he's our most important outfield player all season. I said that we win when he plays and struggle when he doesn't. the problem is he's missed too much of this season.

That said Blind might come good next year if LVG sees him in that position, you can't really judge a player on his first season.