Fixed that for you
Renato Sanches
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Fixed that for you
Let's not forget, Anderson actually suffered a broken Leg the season before he joined us at Porto. Even despite that, he was very impressive at United and genuinely looked the real deal. SAF was crazy about him after his first few games.
Everyone here was also crazy about him during the first season.
He could just as easily turn out to be an Anderson, Saviola or Mark Platts though, that's the concern.
If Anderson had the right attitude, I'd sign him today given a choice. Injuries is something you can't always account for.
Yeah i'd agree actually, probably wasn't the best example. It's quite sad really because he could've been a real force for us, early on he looked like a superstar.
Agreed.
I think our scouts have obviously seen something extra in this kid - in terms of mentality, drive, focus etc. - through watching him so extensively that possibly isn't being reflected in this thread. Those aspects are hugely important for a CM.
I remember at the start of this thread the comparisons with Ando, still doesn't seemed to have stopped. I don't think they are all that similar anyways from what little I've made of Sanches be it interms of playing style, price tag, ceiling etc..
I know this might cause a stare but I partly blame Fergie for a tiny bit of Anderson's woes. I'm please that some fans knew of his potential and ability before he joined, I'm sick of fans that don't know anything outside United and say stuff like Darmian is the worst RB ever without any knowledge o fthe player before he joined United.
For Gremio, Brazil youth teams and Porto, Anderson was a brilliant player with massive potential. He was primarily deployed as a free roaming #10. Now, it's common knowledge that Fergir didn't do #10s and to a lesser extent "free roaming". I often felt that Fergie was trying to create an all rounder in Anderson rather than a Maverick. That means more running, more disciplined displays, less independent thoughts etc. It's almost the same way Jon Obi Mikel was EPLised. He too was also an amazing young talent until Jose tried to do a similar thing. These players had greater potentials than Sanches IMO.
For Gremio, Brazil youth teams and Porto, Anderson was a brilliant player with massive potential. He was primarily deployed as a free roaming #10. Now, it's common knowledge that Fergir didn't do #10s and to a lesser extent "free roaming". I often felt that Fergie was trying to create an all rounder in Anderson rather than a Maverick. That means more running, more disciplined displays, less independent thoughts etc. It's almost the same way Jon Obi Mikel was EPLised. He too was also an amazing young talent until Jose tried to do a similar thing. These players had greater potentials than Sanches IMO.
I agree with everything you say apart from the last line. I think sanches is every bit as talented as those players considering what he's achieved at this age and the mature style of play that he already deploys. I do agree about Fergie trying to make Anderson something he wasn't but still feel that if Anderson had engaged more with his own talent, i.e working harder, then he could easily have adapted to the role. I think people are judging Sanches telnet just exclusively on the price rather than looking at his attributes and what we need, and I'd argue alol of his immediate strengths are our biggest weaknesses in CM.
It was obvious after he'd been here a while he just didn't have the skill-set for that role at this level. Positionally he was awful when he was tried there and his final ball and finishing wasn't good enough.
Fergie didn't misutilize Anderson. He had one good quality - his ability to drive forward from midfield which was best utilised in a deeper role. His vision, shooting, passing ranged from horribly inconsistent to downright terrible and that was when he in form which was about 5-6 games per year if we're being generous. He was an appalling #10 and was never going to make it there.
Sure, but if we don't take chances we won't get anywhere.
There's some bizarre rewriting of history going on in here.
Anderson was an immensely talented player who looked absolutely at home as a teenager in his first season for the best team in world football. He had a brilliant blend of technical and physical attributes and was without question one of the top teenagers around.
Constant injuries set him back and he didn't have the drive and attitude to get back to that level but there's no need to reimagine history to try and justify why it didn't work. That's football, they don't all work out, but we'll get nowhere if we aren't prepared to take those risks on talented kids.
I'm very excited about this one and given that we've scouted him for about 25 games in a row I think it's fair to say we're doing our due diligence.
Anderson was an immensely talented player who looked absolutely at home as a teenager in his first season for the best team in world football. He had a brilliant blend of technical and physical attributes and was without question one of the top teenagers around.
Constant injuries set him back and he didn't have the drive and attitude to get back to that level but there's no need to reimagine history to try and justify why it didn't work. That's football, they don't all work out, but we'll get nowhere if we aren't prepared to take those risks on talented kids.
I'm very excited about this one and given that we've scouted him for about 25 games in a row I think it's fair to say we're doing our due diligence.
I don't totally agree. His skill set is good but not totally essential. He will flourish in a team that is full of technically sound players or a team that plays quick transition. Players like him are rare no doubt but not the rare in the "special breed" type. As far as young CM wonderkids go, he really is not technically sound and people need to be very honest here. Youtube clips will show you the best bits as for most of the matches I have watched I am left thinking if we would get a sniff in if he wasn't this physical specimen. I like that wants to try some things but the amount of unforced errors, erratic passes, poor first touches per 90 doesn't sit well with me. He does make it up with his high intensity game play but is that what makes for the best of the best?
Football is a contact sport no doubt and being physically strong is a good thing to have but as a strength and conditioning coach, the focus has shifted to stamina and endurance in recent years, while the technical abilities is the key training focus. Physicality is not so much a skill as technical abilities and tactical nous. Some players have genetics on their side but less have natural technical talent. I for one I'm tired of seeing players at United that in the XI because they can physically dominate a player rather than with the ball ala Fellaini and Valencia.
United is not blessed with many players that technically adept and have an impressive tactical nous individually and collectively, that is why we often looked disjointed and rely on individual brilliance most of the time. Let's not even talk about LVG! The best teams are riddled with them and do well without players of the Sanches ilk. One may want to bring up Atletico Madrid but it would be criminal to call them a physical team. I defy anyone call out one player that isn't technically sound. They also succeed because of tactics and all the players have taken it up well. What about all the high pressing? The tactics are based on a group of players that are first technically sound AND press TOGETHER as a team. Same with the Dortmund, Barca etc.
IMO, United's biggest problem is having those ilk of players that have a good command of the ball as opposed to having "harriers" in the team. I submit to you that having a Makalele or Kante; as people are crying out for would be pointless cos after they hustle for the ball, what happens next? do we have the players that know what to do? do we even have a direction with LvG's tactics? This is the reason I'm against this Sanches deal. My best hope would be that he would be more like Michael Essien at Lyon (I really encourage you guys to watch a bit of what he was about before he got ruined at Chelsea IMO). At Lyon, he was not only an engine room but he had some technical ability, not Zidane or Xavi levels but it made a whole lot of difference.
I'm not saying that Snches won't improve technically but I'm struggling to see much to work with tbh cos if he did I'd love to have him. I'll go as far as saying the £40m would be a bargain. For this reason I would rather we focused on TFM who isn't quite as intense as Sanches but a solid unit nonetheless, he is also technically better and I believe also tactically sound as well. The money would be best invested somewhere else. I'll will not be worries if we miss out on Sanches because based on what I've seen this season, I don't think his ceiling can be as high as people think. The best he could be based on what I've seen is a Makalele; an great player but not quite as great in the context of midfielders, if that makes any sense.
Give Sanches another full season as some unbiased scout blogs have reviewed. I doubt other clubs will be willing to pay the obscene amounts United are reported to be willing to, that is if other clubs are as interested as reported.
Anderson's shooting was worse than the average Sunday League player.
You're talking about Sanches like he's a limited player. I don't know how long you've been watching him. He's a very good dribbler and very good at keeping the ball. When he starts running with it, it's difficult to stop him Very difficult to get it off him when he has in tight spaces. The inconsistency in his passing doesn't mean he's not a technically good player. It's not even only my opinion. Go and read all the reviews of him in the previous pages. You make him sound like some Mikel Obi kind of player.
I have not said he is a limited player neither have written him off else I wouldn't suggest giving him another season. In addition to yesterday's game I'll say I have watched him at least 15 times this season excluding international matches. I am making my opinion based on matches that I have sat down to watch not clips or highlights. I have read most of the reviews and it is pretty clear that those that are against the immediate signing of Sanches are saying the same thing, which is as many that are for it. I don't think that it is coincidental in anyway, and none of those those players have written him off anyway just stating that his technically ability is not as impressive as one would expect for the hype. His technical ability as about as average as many young players in his age group but his physical ability is up their with the best. Is that writing him off? I think not.
The trait which you have described is true. It's difficult to shrug him off the ball and I don't see how that is any different to what I have asserted, his physical ability. I did a few years training to be a part time youth coach so I am naturally biased to young player and there I also did some work as a strength and conditioning coach. I have no reason to hate the kid. And I quote myself "I'm not saying that Sanches won't improve technically but I'm struggling to see much to work with tbh cos if he did I'd love to have him." There inconsistency in passing and there is not having a high enough ability.
I may come across critical of the lad for some but I just call it as I see it. I am privileged to have access and time to watch so many football games and see first hand some young players around the world and the standards are getting higher and higher but unfortunately so is the hype and I don't the technical ability in him yet. I'm not saying that I'm a scout either which is why I'm hoping they have seen something that I haven't seen thus far.
Re Mikel Obi. I think that is harsh that you use him as such a comparison. At 17, Obi Mikel was playing some super stuff as a kid. IIRC, was he not the second best player behind Messi in that youth tournament? Why else would United and Chelsea fight for his signature. If you translate his hype and transfer fees in this current financial market, we would be talking about £50/60m odd. What happened to him at Chelsea was unfortunate.
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There's taking a chance and there's paying 60mil for an 18 year old with top flight football under his belt. The risk doesn't justify the possible reward unfortunately.
I'm Nigerian so I know how hyped Obi was as a kid. I'm talking about Obi now. He's lost a lot of his ball playing ability. However Obi even at a young kid was very different to Sanches. obi's playing style was a lot similar to Kroos.
The thing with Sanches is we have no idea how he will develop. A lot of his attacking instincts have been restricted in the last couple of months because he's being playing very deep. But I think we should just give our people who have been watching him regularly the benefit of the doubt. Everyone seems in agreement that he should stay one more season in Portugal but we have to trust the club if they feel they don't want to take that risk and want him now.
If a club is paying £60M (or whatever the figure is) for a player, that player should be able to make immediate impact and should be a top 5 player in the World.
A player with potential, should at most cost £40M...and that's being VERY generous.
Didn't Suarez cost £65M? Arguably the best striker in the World (if we assume that Messi is an attacking midfielder or false 9).
A player with potential, should at most cost £40M...and that's being VERY generous.
Didn't Suarez cost £65M? Arguably the best striker in the World (if we assume that Messi is an attacking midfielder or false 9).
According to the rumours it's 60m Euros, not pounds. 40 upfront and 20 in performance based clauses.
In a market that's constantly inflated, €60 million one year is not worth €60 million the next.
If Sanches fulfilled his potential and played for the club for a decade or more, the fee isn't as heavy as it seems. Plus, it's paid over a number of years.
Nobody is the finished article at 18. Nobody. Rooney is one of the best teenagers I've ever seen. Messi and Ronaldo were very different players aged 21 compared to what they were at 17/18/
Either way 60m Euros ridiculous and risky; for a player like Sanches. Naturally, forward player command higher fees than midfielder and so the progression goes. This is because they affect the game higher up the pitch, which means they are more likely to decide results than midfielder and midfielders more than defenders. ST>FW>WG>AM>CM>DM>FB>CB>GK in terms of average transfer values. Sanches sits in between the CM and DM and almost £50m is stupid fees for unproven potential who may end up being a DM. He would have to be crazy crazy brilliant CM or DM to really justify this hype. Even if he reaches his peak as a pure DM, he would have to surpass the likes of Mascherano or Makalele which is impressive stuff. As a CM, boy is he in for some pressure. Pogba at a young age, it was without a doubt that the kid was going to be world class but £50m would have been mad!
I have no problems with the value, it's not my money but for that value I want to be seeing some serious potential for a DM cum CM and I'm not. If we even bid £50m for the likes of Verratti; probably in the top 3 deep lying playmakers in world football @ 23, that would still be some crazy transfer. £50m for CM/DM that can't convince all his watchers that he is the real deal is concerning.
Just like the British media, our own posters also struggle with differentiating between pounds and euros, along with knowing the difference between upfront transfer fees and performance related bonuses.
Btw, I am surprised that as long as this thread , there hasn't been any bad blood. Very pleasing. I guess whether we are for or against this transfer we are all eager to see how the kid turns out anyway!
Will play right wing for us
you reckon?
Having watched him play a few times I think he could really do an excellent job there
I dont think he is as good as being hyped in here. However the utd scouts know more than me and if he is finally signed I will be cheering for him
He's made his mark as a CM at senior level, I don't see us wasting his best attributes by sticking him on the wing.
Ser chance he plays on the wing.
He was decent against Bayern, that's all I know.
We definitely need a player of his ability in the team. His pace and energy in a box to box role is something we haven't seen since Keane was in his peak.
He's only 18 and will develop his game further in the coming seasons. The transfer fee does look inflated but i'd rather pay extra than hear the "no Value in the market" bull. Or be an Arsenal fan and keep hearing they have 100's of millions in the bank that stays in the bank.
He's only 18 and will develop his game further in the coming seasons. The transfer fee does look inflated but i'd rather pay extra than hear the "no Value in the market" bull. Or be an Arsenal fan and keep hearing they have 100's of millions in the bank that stays in the bank.
This.
This summers fees are going to be considerably higher than lasts, which were much more than the year before, etc.
The new TV deal and a seemingly abundance of clubs with cash looking for talent will ensure that.
Starts again today in the League Cup final against Braga.
Him and Lindelöf are the only outfield players to keep their starting spot from Friday.
Him and Lindelöf are the only outfield players to keep their starting spot from Friday.
Semi final mate. Ederson keeps spot from friday also. Should be a good match and good test for Sanches. Braga has a decent midfield
Ohh I see, I was sure I had read somewhere that it was the final, must have been dreaming or something.
Ederson is not an outfield player as I'm sure you know.
Ohh I see, I was sure I had read somewhere that it was the final, must have been dreaming or something.
Ederson is not an outfield player as I'm sure you know.
Heh didn't read outfield part
Braga seem to have bought a job lot of ref jerseys.
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