There’s a quote I like by Talal Asad:
“If one believes oneself to be the source of salvation, the wish to make others reflect oneself is not unbenign, however terrible the practices by which this desire is put into effect.”
Religion, what's the point?
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There’s a quote I like by Talal Asad:
“If one believes oneself to be the source of salvation, the wish to make others reflect oneself is not unbenign, however terrible the practices by which this desire is put into effect.”
That 'who' in this context should be challenged every single time because it's either a dishonest or an ignorant question (or both). It presupposes that there is a someone behind it while every other possible way is simply dismissed, which is really stupid if you're actually interested in finding the truth about how we and/or the universe came to be.
And before you say it. No, Dawkins presenting a "science fiction scenario" about aliens does in no way make that question any more valid.
It's also pretty clear by now that it's you who are letting your emotions guide your views when it comes to him, I'm quite certain you broke the irony meter when you accused someone else of doing that a couple of pages back. In the post you are replying to here it is being stated, for probably the 755th time by now, that Dawkins words were misrepresented in the documentary and that doing that is wrong, which you strawman by replying that Stein did nothing wrong in the interview and it was instead Dawkins who was "frothing at the who", as if that is somehow relevant or excuses what the final product showed.
You're constantly twisting things to suit your view of him and to be frank it's making you come across as very dishonest.
I used to debate belief in God with all kinds of people on hiphop forums back in the day. From Black Hebrew Israelites, who were the most misogynistic men I've ever encountered, to 5%ers, with their linguistic gymnastics ('libraries = lies buried' was a particular favourite), to the Koranic Science guys, like our friend Roane here. I'd go back and forth with them for days, weeks, months sometimes, and we'd always end up at the same place - they have faith in things they cannot prove. That's what it all boils down to. They are either born into that faith, so it's part of their identity, or they arrived there after some sort of trauma, so they cling to it like a life raft. But they offer no answers, just interesting detours. And, after a while, you realise that the detours are all roundabouts, and they're just going round and round in circles.
Non-existence is the default position of anything. All swans were white until we discovered a black one. This doesn't mean that the black swan wasn't around before we encountered it, but it does mean that we couldn't say with certainty that there were black swans. If the Abrahamic god exists, where is the evidence of him/it, for it would surely have surfaced after two millenia? Therefore, one has to conclude that a belief that such an entity exists is based on faith alone. And you must acknowledge that or provide evidence to the contrary. It's that simple.
Non-existence is the default position of anything. All swans were white until we discovered a black one. This doesn't mean that the black swan wasn't around before we encountered it, but it does mean that we couldn't say with certainty that there were black swans. If the Abrahamic god exists, where is the evidence of him/it, for it would surely have surfaced after two millenia? Therefore, one has to conclude that a belief that such an entity exists is based on faith alone. And you must acknowledge that or provide evidence to the contrary. It's that simple.
I agree with all of that but that is not why some people like to believe not just in magic, but in religion in particular.
Religion does something that logic can not (science might some day, but not today). That is the promise of immortality for yourself and all those that you have lost and for those we fear to lose. It matters not anything at all when the promise is so big and so desirable.
Religion will continue to be a very powerful force for as long we (humanity) fail to do:
1) make people at peace with death. Accept the reality of nature and stop hoping for living in the Force
2) none
As long as there will be people that can not accept that they will not exist forever, then religion will exist. If there is still life in the Universe when everything goes dark and distant and away, that life will dream of cheating reality.
What's the difference between religion and magic?
Magicians usually don't get money from governments.
Dunno. Both seem total bullshit to me.
Unless they're selling PPE
Religion is based on miracles, right? Isn't that just magic?
We've heard arguments in this thread in favour of people witnessing the moon being split apart. Magicians aren't there yet.
I know some potion makers who can help you with that
At least magic is contemporary enough to be able to be viewed & called 'bullshit' in real time.
Isn't this thread exactly that?
Magic makes the ordinary look inexplicable.
Religion makes the inexplicable look ordinary.
Can't be ordinary if they are miracles
Religion isn't about miracles. It's about peace of mind. It stops people from asking questions
Thankfully.
There’s a partial answer to this question in this book:
“[The] belief that earthly events could be influenced by supernatural intervention was not in itself a magical one. For the essential difference between the prayers of a churchman and the spells of a magician was that only the latter claimed to work automatically; a prayer had no certainty of success and would not be granted if God chose not to concede it. A spell, on the other hand, need never go wrong, unless some detail of ritual observance had been omitted or a rival magician had been practising stronger counter-magic. A prayer, in other words, was a form of supplication: a spell was a mechanical means of manipulation. Magic
postulated occult forces of nature which the magician learned to control, whereas religion assumed the direction of the world by a conscious agent who could only be deflected from his purpose by prayer and supplication.”
So magic is like a new car and a prayer is like my mum's old Ford Escort back in the 80s, sometimes worked, sometimes didn't.
Imagine. Answers. A little self-deception can go a long way
Depends on the religion. Some are comfort religions for others it actually more comforting to believe we cease to exist upon death.
Rt Hon Saint Michelle Mone
May God bless all her yachts and offshore accounts.
That's what started it all. What keeps it going is easy answers to hard questions
This mensa just might be @WI_Red ’s governor in a couple of years.
God had fxxk all to do with it.
Because as anyone with a tenth of a brain cell knows that the oil wasn't there when God was supposed to have created the earth.
Happy belated birthday! We share a birthday on the 12th.
Thank you mate and belated birthday wishes to you as well. Bet I a considerably older than you.
Not by that much!
Yeah but by the time we evolved and needed oil it was there.
Praise be! What foresight!
Im breaking my self ban on the religion thread to say the he almost certainly will be and NC is fecked if he is. Cooper is a fantastic Governor and has done some incredible things, even with GOP supermajorities in the Senate and now House. Funny how that works in places like NC and WI. GOP supermajorities in 50/50 states….
One is tax free.
The issue is you assume the cause is some supernatural invisible bloke. This isn't what science means by cause.
Sort of. Maybe. But probably not in the way you mean.
What on earth are you talking about?
Only in the sense that time was created during the Big Bang. Not in the sense you seem to mean.
You start from the assumption that some supernatural being is a creator. Which is nonsense.
I imagine paint (drying or otherwise) has or makes a sound. Just because you can't hear it, any more than you can see UV or x-rays, means little.