Religion, what's the point?

Deery said:
Why wouldn’t be do it before to pray nobody gets injured..
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He can do it before he can even pray during the game on his own but don't make it part of the team. It's pretty simple. Kids are there to play not practice their faith or lack thereof so it's pretty mind blowing anyone would defend this. And what if instead of prayer he went "remember kids, universe has no God and don't rely on faith when you make bold decisions!" Would you react the same?
 
Moby said:
First thing that came to my mind.

"Who is this Mohammed you are on about there kid?!"
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That reminds me of my first teaching job... It's a public school, but it is on the richer, but more religiously diverse, side of town... lots of doctors and lawyers kids, that kinda place. Well, we didn't have a "Winter Concert" put on by the band and chorus, we had a "Christmas Concert". We had tons of Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, and non-religious kids at the school. The school's solution? "Sit them down at the far end of one of the hallways and you and Mr. (Jewish name) can supervise them during the concert".

This school also made everyone attend a Black History Month program that ended with a 20 minute long gospel choir singing all the Jesus hits.

How that place has not been on the news yet is beyond me.
 
nimic said:
He's an authority figure at a public school, he doesn't have to physically threaten anyone for it to count as coercion.
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Withnail said:
If you read the article it's quite clear why there were concerns and coercion doesn't have to include physical threats but I would have thought most would already be aware of that:

One issue in the case was whether the coach’s decision to pray in such a prominent place, on the 50-yard line, amounted to a private moment of giving thanks or a public demonstration of his religious faith that his players may have felt compelled to join.

Kennedy urged the Supreme Court to find that he was acting on his own behalf, expressing his own religious views, not speaking as a mouthpiece for the school. But the school district said the students on the football team looked up to their coach and felt coerced into doing as he did.

"Today’s decision is particularly misguided because it elevates the religious rights of a school official, who voluntarily accepted public employment and the limits that public employment entails, over those of his students, who are required to attend school and who this Court has long recognized are particularly vulnerable and deserving of protection," Sotomayor wrote. "In doing so, the Court sets us further down a perilous path in forcing States to entangle themselves with religion, with all of our rights hanging in the balance."
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calodo2003 said:
It is coercing when an adult in a position of power, especially a coach, does something ‘for the team.’
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Coercion:


he practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

It seems they are just following his example (you may say bad example) but doesn’t look like he coerced anyone into it.
 
Deery said:
Coercion:

the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

It seems they are just following his example (you may say bad example) but doesn’t look like he coerced anyone into it.
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The dynamic of the team is at play here. Kids aren't going to want to do something that risks them being ostracized by their teammates or coaches.

I can't tell you how many locker rooms I've been in and fields I've been on with head coaches that led the team in prayer before and after games... hell, pregame meals where local preachers would come in and give mini sermons to the team before games... all at public high schools. Sure, a kid can get up and walk out and not listen, but then they're "not being part of the team" and kids who do stay are going to know they walked out and are going to ask them about it and treat them differently. That's just the reality of it. And it's one of the reasons why I've never once asked anyone to pray at a single thing any team I've been a head coach of has ever hosted.
 
Deery said:
Coercion:


he practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

It seems they are just following his example (you may say bad example) but doesn’t look like he coerced anyone into it.
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Fair enough on the definition. I was going off the article where they mentioned 'feeling coerced' and I've often heard people use that in situations where there was no force. Perhaps it's inexact language. In that situation it's so public the kids could feel like they have to join in, whereas if it was an open invitation to a private prayer after the game they could just head off instead of attending.
 
Deery said:
Coercion:


he practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

It seems they are just following his example (you may say bad example) but doesn’t look like he coerced anyone into it.
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That's one definition, but there are others that are more subtle.

Merriam-Webster: to compel to an act or choice

But the word isn't really important here. Let's say pressured, for example. There's a reason why I as a teacher am not allowed to start my classes by leading my students in prayer, even i I do it out in the hall (or beyond school property for that matter), and even if I say it's completely voluntary. It presents the students with a choice that they shouldn't have to take, and they can't know for sure the consequence of not participating. Maybe there are no consequences from my side, but what about reactions from other students?
 
Moby said:
:lol:
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What's even better is that Mr. (Jewish Name) was a coach too, and as a bit of humor, he always volunteered to sponsor (and therefore host in his room) the Fellowship of Christian Athletes student meetings.

He told me: "Little do they know, I'm the only Jew in the room that can hear them praying." I about died laughing.
 
Deery said:
Aye it’s on the right just as you go onto the pitch.
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I wouldn't be surprised, When I was there I found Barcelona (as with most places in that region) to be massively catholic. A big massive Jesus looks over the whole city from the top of tibidabo (which is quite cool to look at). Also Sagrada Familia is probably the most stunning piece of architecture I've ever seen - and I really got impressed with how they captured the life of Jesus through that monument.

Anyway - the chapel in the tunnel shouldn't be there.
 
calodo2003 said:
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He doesn’t even sound like he believes what he’s saying, so it seems so harmless, so pitiful it’s comical. And then you listen to someone like Samantha Froelich describe her descent into a YouTube rabbit hole and you realise at the very least this gives people the validation they need to actively believe what they’ve always felt deep down, and maybe it plants the idea in their heads. There really must be nothing else in their heads for this to get planted in there, it’s just a complete vacuum waiting for any idea to pierce through that skull, it’s so fecking stupid. But it does seem like it happens…
 
Right wing justices said the coach just went off to the side to have a quick, private prayer & was unobtrusive…

 
calodo2003 said:
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You've obviously never read the bit of the bible where it says "The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God. If it ain't white, it aint right"
 
‘You’re not Mexican, you’re Indian, but I’m not racist.’ I’m sure she was just as pissed when she thought a Mexican lived in her neighborhood.

Surprised she didn’t use that real knee slapper of an Indian joke to differentiate the neighbor from those from the subcontinent.
 
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