I absolutely loathe the expression but... “he tells it like it is”. He can be a dick at times but I think he’s always honest. He gushes over Hendry and that sentiment is definitely returned. He also has so much admiration for the likes of Higgins, Davis, Reardon and the other true greats and you will never hear him disrespect them. When he says that about the young players, he’s not just being horrible for the sake of it, he genuinely thinks that and he’s right. There’s no real amateur circuit any more, not like there used to be anyway and it shows because the youth can break build but theres very little in the way of match smarts.
Redcafe Snooker
- Thread starter Ronnie O'Sullivan
- Start date
I absolutely loathe the expression but... “he tells it like it is”. He can be a dick at times but I think he’s always honest. He gushes over Hendry and that sentiment is definitely returned. He also has so much admiration for the likes of Higgins, Davis, Reardon and the other true greats and you will never hear him disrespect them. When he says that about the young players, he’s not just being horrible for the sake of it, he genuinely thinks that and he’s right. There’s no real amateur circuit any more, not like there used to be anyway and it shows because the youth can break build but theres very little in the way of match smarts.
I think a natural ability audit is a bit of a red herring here. Hendry could play every shot going. ROS isn't just knocking the balls around and recovering, he knows all the positional stuff.
I think it's closer than they say - but ROS takes it in his good spells. But hes only going to beat Hendry playing well with his very best stuff.
Hendry was relentless and he was brilliant. You never know what's coming from the Rocket. Sublime century following sublime century or if he doesnt fancy it, doesn't want to fancy it, a load of barely trying disrespectful at times (?) garbage.
I think it's closer than they say - but ROS takes it in his good spells. But hes only going to beat Hendry playing well with his very best stuff.
Hendry was relentless and he was brilliant. You never know what's coming from the Rocket. Sublime century following sublime century or if he doesnt fancy it, doesn't want to fancy it, a load of barely trying disrespectful at times (?) garbage.
What you're doing is ignoring either the final when it is tough or the run in when it isn't. You can't just say he had an easy run in 2001 when he beat one of the goats which you casually ignore. And yes, this year he beat Wilson in the final, he also beat Selby, Ding and Williams. Hendry in the early 90's never came close to a run that stacked.
On the one that you purposely chose. In 99 he beat Paul Hunter, James Wattana, Matthew Stevens, Ken Doherty and Mark Williams. That is just as good a field as O’Sullivan just beat.
How? O'Sullivan has a much better safety game for one.
I think Hendry was dominant in the 90s because he was the first of his kind. His long potting and break building was unprecedented, however it didn't take long for the game to be full of great long potters, break builders combined with a good safety game.
Where does Hendry rank among the great long potters of all time as of now? I'd say he's behind the likes of Mark Williams, Neil Robertson and Judd Trump as well. While his long potting was pretty much unprecedented in the 90s.
I'd say the second thing which lets Hendry down is cue power. The players post 2000 have unbelievable cue power and can make the cue ball dance around the table at their will. I don't Hendry even at his best ever had that in his locker.
Where does Hendry rank among the great long potters of all time as of now? I'd say he's behind the likes of Mark Williams, Neil Robertson and Judd Trump as well. While his long potting was pretty much unprecedented in the 90s.
I'd say the second thing which lets Hendry down is cue power. The players post 2000 have unbelievable cue power and can make the cue ball dance around the table at their will. I don't Hendry even at his best ever had that in his locker.
See, you say "purposely chose" as if I'm being disingenuous. The problem is you haven't actually read what I've been writing.
Look back at my posts:
Now do you see the problem with your post? His win in '99 was fantastic, his best ever for me and better than any of Ronnie's wins in my opinion (and he didn't beat Doherty, he beat Ronnie). But then if you actually read what I've been saying, you'll see that I wasn't actually talking about the late 90's, I was talking about the strength of the field from the time in the early 90's (from about 90-96) where he totally dominated, not the late 90's onward where the class of 92 were hitting their stride.
I'm going to assume it was an honest mistake on your part, but I thought I had made myself pretty clear to be honest.
Cue power is an overvalued skill in my opinion. Hendry's touch in and around the black and pink spot are second only to Ronnie and that's vastly more useful than being able to screw back the length of the table. Judd has always had all the cue power in the world but it wasn't until he actually learned to manage the cue ball over short distances that he started winning and scoring consistently.
You did say early 90’s and then used his 96 run as your example. That isn’t early 90’s so I’m going to assume that was an honest mistake on your part.
I also said prior to that"The early 90's were a really awful time for snooker ... it wasn't until 97-98 that the level really started to heat up.". I established the context of what I meant by "early 90's" in this context right off the bat and maintained consistency within that context. There was nothing wrong with my usage there at all and this seems like a bit of a straw man in all honesty rather than just admitting that your misread my post.
We disagree, you got a bit pompous, let’s just leave it there.
You didn't read my post, got up in arms over something I didn't say then try to act as if me pointing that out is the problem?
What an incredibly snide way of trying to avoid just saying "I misread it, sorry" and actually moving on. For someone who wants to give a lecture on pomposity you seem to go to great lengths of avoid admitting fault.
But then what to expect from someone who dismisses the discussion, drops in a little insult and then says "leave it there"? That in itself is a bit of a scumbag move for supposedly polite discussion.
Need to be seeing more mentions of John Higgins here 
But I thought Dions post about Ronnie taking a year off and still winning the world champs says a lot.
But I thought Dions post about Ronnie taking a year off and still winning the world champs says a lot.
Insulting another member
You’ve been a condescending twat from the start. It’s not my fault you said the early 90’s were poor and then used 96 as evidence of that. I’ve no interest in carrying on with you.
You've insulted me two posts in a row now, and again ignored what I actually wrote in favour of a version that you can present as me being unreasonable. You're not actually interested in discussing the subject matter are you? This is about getting out of the exchange "on top" which is why you're misrepresenting what I said and insulting me. All totally unnecessarily as well, since I've been perfectly willing and happy to discuss snooker with you and anybody else this entire time.
Higgins is a pretty safe 4th place on the all time list, for me. Obviously Reardon won more worlds but the era in which Higgins has won, Higgins' longevity and wider success puts him ahead and he's shown he's superior to Williams I think. Selby might sneak ahead of him but thats the only modern challenger I can see.Need to be seeing more mentions of John Higgins here
Also Hendry has still played more tournaments/matches/frames than Ronnie has in his career. That's pretty bonkers and goes to show how selective Ronnie has been in the last decade or so given there's so many more tournaments about now.
Is that all of a bonkers stat? Hendry played for 27 years, a lot when matches were bigger but tournaments fewer. Ronnie's been massively selective for a good 10 years now and has played for circa 28 years. So only slightly longer.
Williams and Higgins from the same class have only played 200 more matches..... okay quite a massive number really, but not when you're talking big careers.
It kind of is. Hendry made his debut 6 years before Ronnie and he retired 8 years ago. So while Ronnie only has 2 years more on his career, the number of tournaments and matches has skyrocketed in this decade (Selby has only played 40ish fewer matches than Ronnie and Trump is 200 behind).
And maybe, but thats still like 15% of Higgins career!
What a wally
He'd have a point if he was some no mark player or something. Hendry can say what he wants. Fanny.
Is it not just "bantz"?
It's like fecking Lingard sticking the boot in on a Scholes charity match performance.
State of him.
No honey
Ali Carter doesn't help himself with the way he acts.
But this is typical of sportsmen, they don't mind judging but they hate having judgement passed on them.
There are plenty of examples of former pro footballers making comments on current players and getting called out for them.
Most of the time the former pro is A) correct and B) more than qualified to make the statement.
Carter's career is probably now past its peak and so his comment about Hendry's weight are borne from bitterness.
He would also do well to bear in mind that Hendry won 4-3 last night against Nigel Bond who still plays on the main tour and has reached a ranking event QF within the last year.
Commentary/ punditry wouldn't exist if the people behind the mic weren't allowed to criticise or advise on what they see and having won the big one 7 times I think Hendry is entitled to say what he likes about Carter's game.
But this is typical of sportsmen, they don't mind judging but they hate having judgement passed on them.
There are plenty of examples of former pro footballers making comments on current players and getting called out for them.
Most of the time the former pro is A) correct and B) more than qualified to make the statement.
Carter's career is probably now past its peak and so his comment about Hendry's weight are borne from bitterness.
He would also do well to bear in mind that Hendry won 4-3 last night against Nigel Bond who still plays on the main tour and has reached a ranking event QF within the last year.
Commentary/ punditry wouldn't exist if the people behind the mic weren't allowed to criticise or advise on what they see and having won the big one 7 times I think Hendry is entitled to say what he likes about Carter's game.
Hendry is a really good pundit: fair, insightful and not condescending at all, which some former greats tend to be. Not that being a good pundit should be related to how great he was. Some of the best pundits were never that good.
Carter is a twat. Most people who have suffered personal struggles like he has tend to become more empathetic and likeable; he has become more bitter, less likeable.
Carter is a twat. Most people who have suffered personal struggles like he has tend to become more empathetic and likeable; he has become more bitter, less likeable.
Absolutely.
He's been through some really tough times over the years and no one wished him anything but the best.
World Snooker even froze his ranking to protect him when he felt well enough to return to the game.
As you say I think it could have been expected for him to come out of the other side a better person for it, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
He seems to have few fans despite having been a fixture in the top 16 for many years.
I just think it was totally unnecessary for him to tweet about Hendry's weight and make the comment about him effectively just doing his job in the commentary box.
Yeah I agree with the general consensus, at first glance it looks very bizarre from Carter there. Is it possible they are friends behind the scenes and this is just a bit of banter?
Pretty incredible seniors final between Ken Doherty & Jimmy white . Ken won first 4 in a best of 9 and now Jimmy has won 4 in a row . Decider starting now
Jimmy wins!
Hendry out of retirement, looks like Ronnie was correct in what he was saying and the young'uns just aren't cutting it.
Imagine semi finals of Higgins / hendry / o suilliva / Williams
Imagine semi finals of Higgins / hendry / o suilliva / Williams
He beat Crafty Ken didn't he? So I guess theres promise there, but if Rooney can show up in his retirement days at Derby.... then whatever, all bets are off at this point for these ageing sports star. Used to be that the buzz of being at the top trumped money.... doesn't seem the case so much anymore. Hendry blatently admitted that not making finals and having to qualify didn't appetize his ego so his standards slip accordingly.
No doubt in the modern age, people certainly age better, all for that. But coming back after 8 years off, just seems a task too far.
No doubt in the modern age, people certainly age better, all for that. But coming back after 8 years off, just seems a task too far.
Could tell listening to his commentary of the final that he was thinking of a comeback.
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Must be running short of cash. I think he got divorced quite recently
Or Hendry v Ronnie to stop Ronnie getting to 7.
Granted Stephen would need a couple of byes to get there but if this were a movie...
Hopefully he enjoys it and isn’t made to look foolish. I doubt anything will tarnish his legacy anyway but it would be a shame to see him struggling at the table like a journeyman
Will miss his comm to be honest.
It would be great if Hendry has been having some form of sport psychology coaching and is able to overcome his yips, or if returning for the joy of playing with less competitive expectation on himself results means he can relax and overcome it.
He should play wearing a mic