Redcafe Snooker

Mark Williams has won the final qualifying group of the Championship League. So the final 7 in the Winners Group that starts today and ends Friday will be: Trump, Higgins, Williams, Wilson, Carter, Dott, Yuelong.

They all play each other once, in best of 5 frame matches, and the top 4 will go through to the knockout S/F and Final.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Mark Williams has won the final qualifying group of the Championship League. So the final 7 in the Winners Group that starts today and ends Friday will be: Trump, Higgins, Williams, Wilson, Carter, Dott, Yuelong.

They all play each other once, in best of 5 frame matches, and the top 4 will go through to the knockout S/F and Final.
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Kyren Wilson retained the Championship League trophy with a 3-2 comeback win in the final against Mark Williams. It was the third consecutive match that Wilson came back from 2-0 down to win 3-2, including the S/F v John Higgins.

So there's just one tournament left of the season, and the World Championship qualifiers start on Monday.
 
Hendry v White world championship qualifier about to start on Eurosport. :drool:

So far, 18 year old Belgian Julien Leclercq - who I'd never seen before - did well to beat Soheil Vahedi 6-5.

And #87 Andy Hicks, whose 47 years old and never won a ranking title or reached a ranking event final, beat women's #1 and 12 time world champion Reanne Evans for the 2nd year running - 6-2 this time.
 
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Bertie Wooster said:
Hendry v White world championship qualifier about to start on Eurosport. :drool:

So far, 18 year old Belgian Julien Leclercq - who I'd never seen before - did well to beat Soheil Vahedi 6-5.

And #87 Andy Hicks, whose 47 years old and never won a ranking title or reached a ranking event final, beat women's #1 and 12 time world champion Reanne Evans for the 2nd year running - 6-2 this time.
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I had a few frames against him when I was 16ish, a couple of my mates used to get coached by him so I blagged a couple frames here and there. It’s mad how much they can spot in your game, he gave me a few pointers around my cue action, stance and, most importantly, how I approached the table for a pot and I took it away and practiced it and it took my game to the next level.
 
Ivor Ballokov said:
Great steal from Hendry that, surprised he put White back in on that pink though.

He looks like he's enjoying it.
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I'm glad he's putting up a good battle.

I want him to win but, firstly, I just wanted him to look competitive. He needs to improve when he plays against better players - you can tell they're two seniors well past their prime - but hopefully he'll get a bit better the more he plays.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
I'm glad he's putting up a good battle.

I want him to win but, firstly, I just wanted him to look competitive. He needs to improve when he plays against better players - you can tell they're two seniors well past their prime - but hopefully he'll get a bit better the more he plays.
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Yeah, long way to go for him but it would be great to see him go on a good run at some point.

This frame has been truly woeful.
 
Ivor Ballokov said:
Yeah, long way to go for him but it would be great to see him go on a good run at some point.

This frame has been truly woeful.
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:lol:
Yeah, it's been a very poor standard game.
That's really played into Hendry's hands, given how rusty he is. It's been a good draw for him on two counts - a surprisingly high profile game at this stage; but, also, someone with similar age and 'past their prime' flaws as himself. He was still slight underdog, but not as much as if he'd drawn some of the others in the draw.
 
Second huge frame stolen by Hendry!

Much higher standard as well. Good breaks from both and the frame stolen on the black - perfect frame of Snooker, really.
 
Well, it was far from a classic, but it was great to see Stephen Hendry win a game back on the circuit after all these years. :)

A very enjoyable, and contrasting, days snooker. This evening was about seeing two ageing legends battle it out.

While in the afternoon I enjoyed watching two teenagers that I've not seen much of - Jamie Wilson and Julien Leclercq. Both had impressive wins and will, hopefully, establish themselves on the circuit in the coming years. We badly need some young British / European talent to come through.
 
That was actually abysmal. I couldn't believe it was the same 2 players who used to be the best in the world, time really has caught up with them.

In a way Hendry had an excuse having been off tour for so long and only recently returning, then messing up his entry and missing a tournament.

White has never left the tour (though it is in danger), he has just deteriorated.

Some of the simple shots he missed last night I would expect to see comfortably potted by a newcomer at my snooker club, and as for the miscue well what can you say?

I also thought he rushed a lot of his shots, and I know he is by nature a quick player hence his nickname but especially some of his attempts to get out of snookers - of which there were a lot - weren't given enough respect.

Hendry is through but I've seen a few of the qualifiers on the Eurosport Player and his was the least impressive winning performance.

I would however of course say that will mean nothing if he goes on to qualify for the Crucible, but from what I saw last night the rest of the draw bracket shouldn't fear too much.
 
Watching 15 year old Ukrainian Iulian Boiko this morning, whose ranked 126th having struggled to win many games, and I'm wondering if there could be some kind of change that, if you manage to get yourself on the main tour as a teenager, you're guaranteed a place for the years while you're still in your teens?

Their ranking place would still be on a 2 year cycle obviously, so losing and gaining points during those years based on results like everyone else, just not dropping off the circuit if they haven't made it into the top 64 in 2 years?

Boiko is a bit of an extreme case - most don't get on it as young as him and guaranteeing a youngster all those years on the circuit seems extreme I admit. Mostly they're 16+, but it must still be huge pressure for teenagers to cope with, especially those from abroad, knowing they may drop off the tour and might not have the money to dedicate to playing amateur and paying for Q-School, etc (the sport almost lost a young Neil Robertson that way).

I know a big argument against it is that it's the fear of dropping off the tour that drives you on to learn and improve, and dropping off and getting back on hardens you for the battle and so on. And Neil Robertson is a great example of that. And that older players wouldn't be happy missing out on some places.

But with Snooker struggling to produce the next generation of youth apart from the Chinese players, it might help the sport not lose some of the up and coming youngsters if they have an extra year or two to improve on tour while still in their teens?

Just a thought.
It might not be feasible.
 
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Another very poor standard match in tonight's TV coverage - this time Brandon Sargeant v Rebecca Kenna.

Very reminiscent of last night's White v Hendry match - both players look poor and it could easily be a match in a pub that we're watching, not a world championship qualifier.

Justifications can be made for Hendry and Sargeant - Hendry has been retired for 10 years and barely played. And Sargeant is ranked #106 and just isn't particularly good - although both should still be better than what they've produced.

But it's even worse from White and Kenna. White may be ageing, but he's still playing regularly and has shown this season he's much better than last nights horror show. And Kenna is ranked #4 in the women's game so, unless that's more representative of the women's overall standard, then she really should be capable of playing better than this.

Like last night, one of them is going to win almost by default, but they've been two games of shocking standard.
 
Kenna is basically hanging in with Sargent which is actually a bit embarrassing for the people who have been up against the idea of women getting a card . Kenna is basically an amatuer and this is a pathetic performance by Sargent
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Kenna is basically hanging in with Sargent which is actually a bit embarrassing for the people who have been up against the idea of women getting a card . Kenna is basically an amatuer and this is a pathetic performance by Sargent
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Are you kidding me?
The women's #4 is 'hanging in' with a rubbish men's player ranked in the 100's and you think that's just 'pathetic' from Sergeant?

Unless you're saying the standard of the women's game is awful, then surely the #4 player should be much better than the men's #106. And the same with Andy Hicks beating Reanne Evans two years running. That's a pretty 'pathetic' effort from Evans, surely? Unless your opinion and expectations of the top women players is ludicrously low?

You can't watch these two awful standard matches, rightly criticise the terrible level the 3 men have produced, and then look to praise the similarly awful standard produced by the women's #4. She's been every bit as bad as them and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that. She might win, as Hendry did last night, but, like last night, it's a scruffy, unimpressive win for whoever gets it.
 
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Bertie Wooster said:
Are you kidding me?
The women's #4 is 'hanging in' with a rubbish men's player ranked in the 100's and you think that's just 'pathetic' from Sergeant?

Unless you're saying the standard of the women's game is awful, then surely the #4 player should be much better than the men's #106. And the same with Andy Hicks beating Reanne Evans two years running. That's a pretty 'pathetic' effort from Evans, surely? Unless your opinion and expectations of the top women players is ludicrously low?

You can't watch these two awful standard matches, rightly criticise the terrible level the 3 men have produced, and then look to praise the similarly awful standard produced by the women's #4. She's been every bit as bad as them and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that. She might win, as Hendry did last night, but, like last night, it's a scruffy, unimpressive win for whoever gets it.
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No I am not kidding you because the women's game is basically amatuer level at this point . This notion that just because snooker isn't a physical sport so women should have the same level as men is wrong because they aren't getting nowhere near the same exposure or money from the start . Rebecca Kenna hasn't played a match in 14 months while Seargent is playing every week on tour. If she wins tonight she will make £5000 while Reanne Evans got £6000 for winning the women's world championship in 2019 . It's not really as straight forward as number 4 Vs number 100 . Of course she isn't a great player but I think she is playing very well for her level. Kenna was 25/1 to win this match , she was 6/4 to lose 6-0
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
No I am not kidding you because the women's game is basically amatuer level at this point . This notion that just because snooker isn't a physical sport so women should have the same level as men is wrong because they aren't getting nowhere near the same exposure or money from the start . Rebecca Kenna hasn't played a match in 14 months while Seargent is playing every week on tour. If she wins tonight she will make £5000 while Reanne Evans got £6000 for winning the women's world championship in 2019 . It's not really as straight forward as number 4 Vs number 100 . Of course she isn't a great player but I think she is playing very well for her level. Kenna was 25/1 to win this match , she was 6/4 to lose 6-0
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She surely can't be 'playing very well for her level'? Her highest break tonight is about 30 something, isn't it? I don't watch much of the women's game, but surely the top ranked players are capable of getting much higher breaks than that?

She's in the match because both players are playing poor, same as last nights game. She's not raised her game and going toe to toe with good safety and breaks with a talented male player. She's playing a poor player, whose about to drop off the circuit, and, like last night, it's a scruffy, low standard match with both players playing poorly for this level of the game.

I'd like to think Rebecca can play better than this on another day, with better safety and higher breaks, and that this isn't her playing 'very well for her level' - implying she's often even worse than this.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
She surely can't be 'playing very well for her level'? Her highest break tonight is about 30 something, isn't it? I don't watch much of the women's game, but surely the top ranked players are capable of getting much higher breaks than that?

She's in the match because both players are playing poor, same as last nights game. She's not raised her game and going toe to toe with good safety and breaks with a talented male player. She's playing a poor player, whose about to drop off the circuit, and, like last night, it's a scruffy, low standard match with both players playing poorly for this level of the game.

I'd like to think Rebecca can play better than this on another day, with better safety and higher breaks, and that this isn't her playing 'very well for her level' - implying she's often even worse than this.
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I don't claim to know her game and maybe she can play better than this . But for someone who hasn't played a match for ages and in the current climate on a camera table with £5000 on the line I didn't expect much better really . As I said she was 25/1 to win this match while Hendry wasn't even 2/1. Seargent has made close to 20k on the tour this season while Kenna hasn't made that in her career, she has made no money from snooker in ages so it's clear to me who has played much worse than they should have .
 
Both players performed shockingly bad last night, relevant to their usual level and experience although I would say that Sargeant was further below par than Kenna.

He's far from a top player and rarely sees beyond the first round of ranking events but you could tell most of the pressure was on him.

Wrong or right, at professional level men are still generally expected to beat women (even in less physically exerting sports) on most occasions - this 'gap' has definitely narrowed in recent years (Fallon Sherrock in the darts being a good example) but you just need to look at the blue Sargeant missed in frame 5(?), a straight blue to the green pocket with no hampered cueing and he missed it by about 5 inches.

I really hope Evans and/or On-Yee make a real good go of their time on the senior mens tour but I am not holding my breath just yet.
 
This is the first day so far that I'm disappointed with the choice of main match on Eurosport.

Without any 'big' players or matches, I was more interested in seeing some of the younger players you don't get to see too often like Aaron Hill, Peter Devlin, Lukas Kleckers.

Fergal Quinn isn't on the tour, Fergal O'Brien is almost 50 and has won 1 ranking title. Apart from being the Battle of the Fergal's, it doesn't have much to offer.

I'm watching the Devlin - Kleckers match without commentary instead, but was hoping to get to see Aaron Hill v Ashley Hugill.
 
I think what this all shows is just how bad the level is in snooker below the top players. We always talk about how good the top guys are but in reality it's combined with very bad standards below them. Jimmy White is 83 on the world ranking which is pretty bad for the sport
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I think what this all shows is just how bad the level is in snooker below the top players. We always talk about how good the top guys are but in reality it's combined with very bad standards below them. Jimmy White is 83 on the world ranking which is pretty bad for the sport
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Yep.

Ronnie keeps getting digs made at him for his comments about some of the standard of first round opponents in the 128 player tournaments, and for his (valid) comment that it'll be hard for older players like him to drop outside the top 50 as there's nowhere near that amount of players that show the consistency required.

The lower ranked players might not like hearing it, and get digs in on the rare occasions they win a one off match v Ronnie, but they need to start performing better more often if they really want to prove him wrong.
 
Don't forget Ronnie lost in Sheffield a couple of years ago to someone who has never been higher than 76 in the rankings. Not everyone is born with the gift that he was and most people look like numpties compared to him, he just needs to learn a bit of respect towards the lower ranked players.

As for the qualifiers the first round is always poor, mainly because there are a lot of players to whom it means almost too much, there's nerves everywhere and for some it's possibly the only shot they will ever get to qualify for the Crucible.

It's the second round of qualifiers where things start to improve, and yes the lineup this morning isn't spectacular, but at the business end of the draw some of the potential matches are way ahead of anything that's been seen before in qualifiers - Day vs. Walden and Bingham vs. Brecel stand out straight away but there are plenty of others.
 
I'm enjoying switching between the two games involving 16 year olds this afternoon - Ben Mertens and Robbie McGuigan.

Both started well - both 2-0 up.
Despite being the same age, physically they're very different - Mertens already seems very tall and built like an adult and seems an imposing figure when at the table, although looks younger when close up. McGuigan also looks young, but also has a small frame and looks like very undersized walking around the table. :lol:
 
The Martens match has been fun . He really should have won but pressure makes you do weird things out there
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
The Martens match has been fun . He really should have won but pressure makes you do weird things out there
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Yeah, a great game to watch but a bloody frustrating result for me.

I'm really wanting some teenage Brits / Europeans to come through to level out the plethora of Chinese youngsters.

Mertens is one of the most promising and I was really enjoying how he was playing but it was worrying that he bottled it so much from 5-1 up and a couple of 50+ leads, while the 17 year old Lei Peifan was clearly mentally stronger and dealt better with the nerves.

I guess being on the tour for a couple of years has helped with that compared to Mertens - but then he had to be mentally strong for his age to have earned a place on the tour at 15/16 in the first place.

It's a shame for Mertens, and fellow 16 year old Robbie McGuigan has been pegged back after a big lead as well - 5-5 at the moment. EDIT: And he's now lost 6-5 as well, from 5-2 up.
 
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Stephen Hendry starts his 2nd qualifying round soon - against Xu Si.

It's another decent draw for Hendry as Xu Si is one of the lower ranked 49-80 players entering in the 2nd round but, still, he'll have to play an awful lot better tonight than he did to beat Jimmy White as I can't see Xu Si playing as poorly as they both did.
 
It was actually a very interesting mix of nationalities this afternoon. The games were between players from...

China v Belgium
Germany v Russia
England v Austria
England v Northern Ireland

Tonight's is back to the usual England, Scotland, Wales, China - but this afternoon was unusual.
 
I can't see this Hendry comeback lasting long tbh. He retired because he felt embarrassed at losing so not sure how he will take this . He played shockingly against Jimmy and then lost 6-1 to a relatively unknown guy . He is lucky that he hasn't played any of the big boys yet or it could have been ugly . It's great for nostalgia but I think he will reconsider soon.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I can't see this Hendry comeback lasting long tbh. He retired because he felt embarrassed at losing so not sure how he will take this . He played shockingly against Jimmy and then lost 6-1 to a relatively unknown guy . He is lucky that he hasn't played any of the big boys yet or it could have been ugly . It's great for nostalgia but I think he will reconsider soon.
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Yeah. It started better tonight, 1-0 up and on the verge of winning the second. But somehow he lost it and then Xu Si upped his game, with half centuries in the next 5 frames, and Hendry was completely outclassed by a guy about #80 in the rankings.

It's a shame he couldn't have featured in the couple of tournaments earlier this year as his game might have been a little better by now.

Hopefully he'll give it a really good go from the off next year and he might start being able to at least be competitive against the (half) decent players. But even if he wins a few games next season, I'm expecting him to retire again next year after another failed attempt at the World Championship Qualifiers.
 
I think he’s reasonably broke(by his standards of wealth) too. He’s certainly brought viewers in his 3 games that wouldn’t usually watch those kind of matches... so probably got reasonable money somewhere... but those viewers will dwindle now, novelty’s gone now more or less.
 
This Fan Zhengyi guy is one of the crispiest long potters I have ever seen . He goes for everything and when he does make it the ball goes in so smoothly. Also amazingly he has some sort of superstition of not making a century. He refused the black on 98 today , hasn't made one in his career yet
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
This Fan Zhengyi guy is one of the crispiest long potters I have ever seen . He goes for everything and when he does make it the ball goes in so smoothly. Also amazingly he has some sort of superstition of not making a century. He refused the black on 98 today , hasn't made one in his career yet
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Wow, that's amazing. :eek:
I've never heard anything like that before in Snooker.
 
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