Redcafe Sheep Draft QF2 - Cutch vs Thisistheone

Who will win based on all the players at their peak?

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .
Francesco Totti

Often referred to as Il Bimbo d'Oro (The Golden Boy), Il Re di Roma (The King of Rome) and Il Gladiatore (The Gladiator) Totti is currently the top active Serie A goalscorer and second all-time in league history with 232 goals. An incredible amount in a league famed for its defensive nous.

A crime that he didn't win a Balon D'or around the early to mid 2000's. I leave it to legends of the game to describe my sides talisman:

Gianni Rivera: "Totti is better than Baggio and Del Piero, even better than me." "He is the best Italian player of the last 20 years, I finally choose him. He can do everything and do it well. Assists and goals, power and delicacies techniques. Extraordinary."


Paolo Rossi: "Francesco Totti has probably been the best player in the last decade. His skills, ability, physical strength and intelligence on the pitch made him a symbol for Roma and the whole of Italian football."


Paulo Roberto Falcão: "Totti has the technique of a South American and deserved to win a few more trophies with his Roma team. In fact, he also deserved to win the Ballon d’Or..."


Arrico Sacchi: "For me, he is one of the greatest players I have ever seen.


Marcello Lippi: "Totti is the monument of Italian football." "It is clear that Totti is one of the few players who doesn’t have a substitute because there is nobody around who plays like him.


Giovanni Trapattoni: "Every player has some genius, but there's only one Van Gogh, and there is nobody like Totti." "Totti can transform a side. There are very few players who have that capability."He reminds me of Eusébio, as quick mentally as he is physically.""If I was still playing football today, then I would have real problems marking Totti, a bit like I struggled to control Pelé in the past. He has those same characteristics."


Arsene Wenger: "Totti is a top, top class player... He used to play in behind the strikers and then one day they had no central striker so they played him up front and won game after game. He suddenly became the topscorer in Italy as a central striker. That means this guy has absolutely everything. He has a fantastic protection of the ball, he has a quick turn and then he has a very good pass in the final third of the pitch. He can be deadly with every single pass.


Caludio Ranieri: "He is the best player with whom I have ever worked. He could have won several Ballons d'Or had he left Roma for Barcelona or Manchester United.

 
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Cutch said:


Prime Kaka. Remind yourself of these type of performances if you need to as its a while from we've seen them.

It might be harsh on TITO's main man Totti, but he's never made this type of impact on a European or International competition.
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Man of the match in the Euro 2000 final, an important role in the 2006 World Cup success and various talismanic performances whenever Roma got their act together to get into Europe.
 
Romario

Johan Cruyff
"Romario is a genius of the goal area".

Ronaldo
"Romário was the most decisive player who I played with, he was a great goal scorer, finisher, skilful, opportunist. I think I learnt all of that from him".

Roberto Baggio
"Romário is one of the greatest players of all time. He has good technique and personality. He is a master of art in the penalty area."

Diego Maradona on who was the best player he ever saw play: "It is between Romário and Van Basten".

Tim Vickery, BBC football correspondent.
We're talking of one of the great centre-forwards. He's a master of the reduced space of the penalty area. A square metre for him is like an acre. Why? Low centre of gravity, powerful thighs so he can explode, wonderful finishing ability. Both because he's very proficient technically, but also because he's so cold in front of goal.
 
Gio said:
Man of the match in the Euro 2000 final, an important role in the 2006 World Cup success and various talismanic performances whenever Roma got their act together to get into Europe.
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I thought he was similar to Ibrahimovic in being a bit of an enigma on the big stage for long parts of his career, but point taken. I still think Kaka made more of a mark, albeit hadn't the same longevity through his career, but it will come down to voters personal preference i guess between the 2.
 
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Thisistheone said:
Really believe my side has the attacking flexibility to avoid being sucked into a counter punch. With Makelele and Cafu added to the mix, the Juve back line, Scholes, the pace up top, my side can counter brilliantly as well.
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I'm not sure. I think your side is more geared up for trying to dictate play and probe through the middle. I don't think your transition between defence and attack will be as quick as mine will, as i've got the better distribution from the back (Hierro), and you've got Scholes more advanced infront of Makelele. I don't think Totti's really the type either for that sort of game, whereas all 4 of my attackers will relish attacking together at pace.
 
Isotope said:
Is Pessoto that good? Seems like most Barca fans put Sergi in their all time XI. And so is for Spain. He's fast, strong, great stamina, and good passer.
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Let's put it this way: I always consider Sergi and never consider Pessotto. But then, with Montero next to him, he gets better. On the other hand, Sergi wasn't a defensive beast, more like the perfect leftback for the sort of tactics Barca employed. In this game Sergi is supposedly sitting and soaking, which sounds odd, and Pessotto is supposed to be providing width, which I don't think he will. Neither will be at their best really.

Cutch said:
Yep, every Barca dream team i've ever seen picked has Sergi as their best ever left back. Infact the general consensus is that i have 3 of their 4 all time back 4 in my lineup. Just the 1 to go, but i might get him in the next round if i got through :).
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I'd probably agree with your Top 4 assessment. For Barca and the way they generally play, that is. As I pointed out earlier, I tried to put together four who could execute Dream Team tactics, but also other tactics ;)

That's the issue I see you having here, three of your four defenders are really playing in abnormal/adverse conditions. Barca never soak and counter, they have traditionally been a colander which scored more (i.e. until they decided not to let anyone have the ball at all).
 
BTW Cutch, Tito has done his usual and voted for himself. You probably should as well. Time to prove you would* ;)

*In a previous game Cutch and I spent the entire game PMing saying "you go first, then I will" :lol:
 
Cutch said:
I'm not sure. I think your side is more geared up for trying to dictate play and probe through the middle. I don't think your transition between defence and attack will be as quick as mine will, as i've got the better distribution from the back (Hierro), and you've got Scholes more advanced infront of Makelele. I don't think Totti's really the type either for that sort of game, whereas all 4 of my attackers will relish attacking together at pace.
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Come off it Cutchy boy! - TITO's side can definitely do both mate.

There is not a player in that front five who hasn't played in counter attacking sides - Scholes, Deco, Totti, Savicevic and Suarez - All five can counter and attack directly. You're right that Scholes and Deco will dominate the ball for long periods, but that doesn't stop them instigating direct attacks or trap them into a slow, tika takka style of football.

Being able to build up slowly and keep possession does not mean the team has to do that - football is a flexible game and at times that midfield would knock it about, and another time you'll be caught high up the pitch and Scholes will just ping a 40 yard pass to start a counter attack.

The likes of Bayern Munich can do this now, but more relevantly Scholes did this at United and Deco did it at Barcelona - he would control the play in the middle but still initiate counters for the likes of Ronaldinho/Eto'o/Henry.

The wide forwards couldn't be more direct IMO, Suarez is like a moth to a flame when he is going for goal and Savicevic is an even bigger direct threat purely for being such an incredible dribbler - Look at this MOTM performance against United from Savicevic, you don't get much more direct than that with his first thought always offensive.

 
I don't think my side will be particularly easy to counter attack against, being such a hard working team without the ball, and having the 2 DMs infront of the back 4 dedicated to breaking up these sort of attacks. There should always be enough numbers behind the ball, making TITO's side instead play a more patient approach to try to play its way in through the middle the majority of the time with Deco trying to probe (which i'm hopefully set up well to deal with), or with Scholes looking to switch out wide.
 
A few vids before i hit the sack here. Might not be on again in the morning.

Fernando Hierro will be an important player for me here. Will probably spend large parts being the closest to TITO's main man Totti and will be the man to launch my quick counters from the back. A phenomenal range of passing, he is one of the most prolific goalscoring defenders of all time. Incredibly, he was Spains record goalscorer before Raul.




Luis Enrique will hopefully use his strong running to get in behind the weakest member of TITO's back 4 Pessotto. Check out the number of headers in this video aswell, which could be an important feature in this game at the back post from a Sergi or Stoitchkov delivery. See how many goals he scores just from wanting it more than the opposition. His all action play should mean he teams up well with Dani Alves in attack and defence.




Hristo Stoitchkov was along with Romario the best player in the world circa 1994. He should also have the perfect support to perform to the best of his abilities in this game, with the familiar Romario and Sergi, and with his acceleration and power offering a serious threat in behind and his explosive shot a devastating weapon. He also offers a great left footed alternative to Hierro from direct freekicks.
 
TITO I'm really sorry, I like you're team a lot more than I like Cutch's, I really want to vote for you and I think you're team is built brilliantly and you've made great picks in the reinforcements, and I like the "team built around Totti" idea, and the execution, but I think that Cutch's team is your worst opponent. I'd say you might be one of my favorites for this draft entirely but Cutch's team simply outplay you, negative football can sometimes get positive and that's what team Cutch brings to this game.

Voting for Cutch, but with this specific matchup I might end up changing my mind. Really heartbreaking for me voting against TITO whose team filled with players I adore.
Cutch if you do qualify, upgrade Alves & Puyol/Sergi and you're team is perfect against teams who dominate possession - and that's what I expect you'll be facing.
 
I don't believe that Tito's team not being set up to counter effectively. Yes, Cutch has the defensive walls to absorb such attacks, but then it does not stop the counters themselves. United did play a more explansive 4-4-2 than Tito's setup and still had lethal counters. The only difference will be that Tito's counters will be through the middle and Cutch's out by the wings.

For me, the key difference is that Cutch's full backs need to venture further out forward than Tito's for them to be able to support the attack. Scholes/Deco will effectively be operating in the free area between the DM's and AM's and so will more more available to gather passes. Tito's full backs can remain at around half way line to support whereas Cutch is probably looking for overlapping runs. With Totti dropping back and Suarez running into the box, Tito's counters will be far more effective in that wing, esp with Alves out of position.

God, this is pure headache!
 
antohan said:
On the other hand, Sergi wasn't a defensive beast, more like the perfect leftback for the sort of tactics Barca employed. In this game Sergi is supposedly sitting and soaking, which sounds odd, and Pessotto is supposed to be providing width, which I don't think he will. Neither will be at their best really.
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Strange. He was part of 3-man defence under Cruyff. You'd assume that he's better on defence than attack.
 
No idea whether I'll wake up before this finishes so leaving a temp vote for Tito here.

I have the opposite problem to Viva, I love all of Cutch's players bar the midfield two. Switch those two for something more tasty and risky and you don't necessarily have a better team but one that will win or lose but always entertain. With this one I can't help but feel it is relying too much on counters while not having the personnel at the back to keep Tito from scoring one or two goals.

That 1994 CL Final comes to mind. Barca had won 15 games on the trot and were shitting on anyone they met, while Milan had lost their Dutchmen, struggled to score and had stumbled across the finishing line in Serie A (I think they hadn't won a game for a month or two). Capello had alienated all the classy players, and Savicevic in particular. Milan were fecked with injuries and suspensions and were forced to field a side which really should have been blown out of the water.

But no, they got overconfident, Cruyff even took pictures with the trophy before the game, he also benched Laudrup who he probably considered surplus to requirements with Baresi and Costacurta out. Yet the Italians, i.e. the second string ones, defended the way we all know they can defend and completely tore apart Barcelona. 60% of that tearing was Savicevic, hands down the MotM. I have a feeling the same could happen here, the more fancied frontline being contained while the less fancy one turns out an effective display. The players are certainly capable of it.

On the other hand, I think about Lucho arriving at the far post... :drool:
 
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Isotope said:
Strange. He was part of 3-man defence under Cruyff. You'd assume that he's better on defence than attack.
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No, not really. It's the complete opposite. It was very much an "attack is the best form of defence" philosophy. I would bet my left nut if you gave Cruyff the chance to pick Baresi or Koeman he would pick the latter, not because he is a better defender (obviously isn't) but for what he contributed to the attacking play. That was the priority.

Don't get me wrong, Sergi was one of my favourites in that team. For starters, he actually could defend (as opposed to the random Dutchmen that arrived later) and he had an incredible engine. He kept going back and forth all game long, full pelt up and down the pitch, and on the 90th minute with as much relish as the first. And he kept at it for an entire decade. Of course he deserves to be in their All-Time XI, more so than Dani Alves does IMO.

The point is someone with those characteristics isn't necessarily best suited or particularly comfortable with a game which requires a lot more sitting back, excellent positioning, anticipation, tucking in/covering... That's not what he did week in week out, not by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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There's something wrong with the a on my keyboard, keep missing them all over my posts :annoyed:
 
Went with TITO. Tough decision, but I'm a sucker for a great false 9. I like Cutch's defense, but they aren't really suited to sit deep and soak up pressure and I can see the pressure becoming too big for them to handle here. Totti dropping deep and connecting with Scholes and Deco to play through that Dunga/Silva shield is a brilliant way to create something, imo.

Both teams are strong on the counter, but I think it's more likely that TITO scores from open play, which means it's more likely for him to get the first goal.

Wouldn't mind a penalty shootout though, it's 12-12 at the moment. Great game from both managers.
 
Wasn't Theon part of TITO's team? Not really as an AM but still somehow too much involved to be allowed to vote?
 
antohan said:
Was messing about and came across this. Probably being completely overlooked here. What a player :drool:



1:10, makes it look so easy...
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Why would they use that song? Why, why, why, why? I can't think of a reason why. It hurts so much :(.
 
Thisistheone said:
And it's 12-12!

Another penalty shoot out looms. Still haunted by the last one, @Balu ;) :lol:
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You took the lead, now wait for another vote. It probably ends like that: 14-12, 5 minutes to go, Anto comes on, and changes his vote with that new unvote function and all of a sudden the game finishes 13-13 :lol:.
 
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