RedCafe Sheep Draft - Jayvin vs Thisistheone

Who will win based on all the players at their peak?

  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .
Jayvin said:
They will occupy both TITOs CBs though, and with a man unmarked in midfield at ALL TIMES (really can't stress this enough, one of Boban/Seedorf/Baraja are free to do whatever they please) it means there will be lots of 3v2 opportunities against TITOs defence.
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Please do, because I still don't get it. De Rossi on Boban, Scholes and Deco on Baraja and Seedorf, Totti on Deschamps. Have I missed something? :confused:

I'd agree Scholes-Deco-Totti are not what you would want trying to stop Deschamps-Baraja-Seedorf, but I don't see this unmarked man anywhere.
 
antohan said:
I couldn't tell as I have him on ignore, but out of the few times I put an override on it I noticed he seemed to know who you had picked before it was announced to everyone.
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:lol: can't blame you, Anto.
 
I actually think this could boil down to the fact I'm getting the best out of my main player, Totti.

While Jay's best player ....Zlatan? Is not being used correctly.

I've built a side that gives Totti the ultimate platform that he's never really had in real life.
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Nothing to comment on this? Surely a major factor.

One side has built a team perfectly set-up for the star man, arguably the best player on the pitch.

While the other is a really strong side but doesn't actually get the best out of Zlatan, or Shearer. And certainly nowhere near to the extent I do with Totti.
 
antohan said:
Please do, because I still don't get it. De Rossi on Boban, Scholes and Deco on Baraja and Seedorf, Totti on Deschamps. Have I missed something? :confused:

I'd agree Scholes-Deco-Totti are not what you would want trying to stop Deschamps-Baraja-Seedorf, but I don't see this unmarked man anywhere.
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Leave Totti to defenders 2vs1. Deschamps extra in Middle, I think.
 
Thisistheone said:
I've asked him for advice from time to time. Does that count as an assistant cos there is also another poster i went to for advice during the draft.

I built the side, but it doesn't matter anyway, Theon isn't going to vote. Which is fair.
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I couldn't tell mate, we are all quite used to asking for advice and opinions, particularly between managers. It is a fact though that if someone not taking part becomes a regular go-to guy, assistant or not he ends up biased/emotionally invested. I'd say from those voting/commenting so far I couldn't tell this "other" guy so it looks fine to me, but you would know better.
 
antohan said:
I couldn't tell mate, we are all quite used to asking for advice and opinions, particularly between managers. It is a fact though that if someone not taking part becomes a regular go-to guy, assistant or not he ends up biased/emotionally invested. I'd say from those voting/commenting so far I couldn't tell this "other" guy so it looks fine to me, but you would know better.
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Fair enough. It is definitely best that Theon doesn't vote. Which he isn't going to, so no problem there.

I will re-edit my responce to Aldo early as well so there's no confusion but I don't class myself as having an assistant.
 
Thisistheone said:
Nothing to comment on this? Surely a major factor.

One side has built a team perfectly set-up for the star man, arguably the best player on the pitch.

While the other is a really strong side but doesn't actually get the best out of Zlatan, or Shearer. And certainly nowhere near to the extent I do with Totti.
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I think it all boils down to you underrating Baraja and Seedorf TBH. I'd agree the two upfront aren't perfect partners, but I see your fullbacks having to tuck in to support a porous midfield and his fullbacks then being able to get those crosses in.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Leave Totti to defenders 2vs1. Deschamps extra in Middle, I think.
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But surely the unmarked man is a problem when Jayvin has the ball, so why would Totti "leave himself to the defenders" and let Deschamps strut his stuff freely? Makes no sense.
 
antohan said:
I think it all boils down to you underrating Baraja and Seedorf TBH. I'd agree the two upfront aren't perfect partners, but I see your fullbacks having to tuck in to support a porous midfield and his fullbacks getting those crosses in.
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You think thats a bigger issue than Totti getting absolutely everything around him suited to his needs and having such a great platform to perform?

and his fullbacks have Suarez and Savicevic to deal with. I'm playing a 433 not a 4312
 
Thisistheone said:
Nothing to comment on this? Surely a major factor.

One side has built a team perfectly set-up for the star man, arguably the best player on the pitch.

While the other is a really strong side but doesn't actually get the best out of Zlatan, or Shearer. And certainly nowhere near to the extent I do with Totti.
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You're playing Totti as a false 9 where he will be dominated by Deschamps or sandwiched between Hierro and Thuram depending on what your wide men do. Really can't see him having that much of an impact.

Zlatan and Shearer are using their physicality to keep your centre backs pushed back and occupied, giving more space to my midfield.
 
Thisistheone said:
You think thats a bigger issue than Totti getting absolutely everything around him suited to his needs and having such a great platform to perform?
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Last time I checked, the moment crosses are likely to be flying in Shearer becomes a far more dangerous striker than Totti.

and his fullbacks have Suarez and Savicevic to deal with. I'm playing a 433 not a 4312
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His fullbacks have no one to deal with when he has the ball. When he loses it they need to track back, obviously, but Deschamps is on Totti, Thuram on Suárez and Hierro on Savicevic. The only one of those that may drag his defender wide is Suárez, but Thuram is actually a better fullback than Neville himself so no probs there.
 
Thisistheone said:
One side has built a team perfectly set-up for the star man, arguably the best player on the pitch.

While the other is a really strong side but doesn't actually get the best out of Zlatan, or Shearer. And certainly nowhere near to the extent I do with Totti.
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I'd say your best players in attack are Suarez and Savicevic on the flanks. Those two actually swayed my vote.
 
Thisistheone said:
and his fullbacks have Suarez and Savicevic to deal with. I'm playing a 433 not a 4312
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Do they though? I doubt Suarez and Savicevic will be staying wide, they would both look to cut in at every opportunity. If they ARE instructed to stay wide though, then that means Totti is left alone in the centre with Hierro and Thuram for company. Can't see him doing much against those two.
 
antohan said:
Last time I checked, the moment crosses are likely to be flying in Shearer becomes a far more dangerous striker than Totti.


His fullbacks have no one to deal with when he has the ball. When he loses it they need to track back, obviously, but Deschamps is on Totti, Thuram on Suárez and Hierro on Savicevic. The only one of those that may drag his defender wide is Suárez, but Thuram is actually a better fullback than Neville himself so no probs there.
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True but it is such a huge load for his full backs, having to be the main supply AND defend and keep things tight against my attack, which is getting a bit under-rated here.

Savicevic could drag defenders as well. He was a brilliant dribbler and comfortable on either foot.

There is also the goal threat from Scholes. Over a 100 goals from midfield in a career that didn't involve pens or free kicks.
 
Isotope said:
I'd say your best players in attack are Suarez and Savicevic on the flanks. Those two actually swayed my vote.
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True, don't get what this hard on for Totti's platform is all about, it's Suárez I can see working brilliantly in this setup. Thuram being the CB on the right is a godsend for Jayvin though. As I said earlier, the worry is on the other side and whether Savicevic takes Hierro to the cleaners with a quick one-two with Totti. I actually find Tito to have the more potent counter threat myself, which is why I'm not overly bothered about having Deco doubling up with Scholes in possession.
 
I'm having some troubles with one pairing in each team - TITO - Deco & Scholes which I don't think will work, Scholes at his best will want to roam forward often and Deco is too offensive to be tagged with him, I think Deco should be placed as AM but this formation doesn't show it, Jayvin - Shearer & Zlatan, I just don't think it will work, Zlatan isn't too flexible in his movement and really wants everything in the attack to go through him or to be aimed towards him, and Shearer isn't the kind of striker that will compliment Zlatan imo.
TITO great work with that Juventus backline, it looks incredible, but Jayvin gets my votes because I think he's team will operate better.
 
antohan said:
True, don't get what this hard on for Totti's platform is all about, it's Suárez I can see working brilliantly in this setup. Thuram being the CB on the right is a godsend for Jayvin though. As I said earlier, the worry is on the other side and whether Savicevic takes Hierro to the cleaners with a quick one-two with Totti. I actually find Tito to have the more potent counter threat myself, which is why I'm not overly bothered about having Deco doubling up with Scholes in possession.
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Whilst he I don't think he is the best attacking of the three I do think he is most vital, he enables the other two to play to their best. IMO at least.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Shearer & Zlatan, I just don't think it will work, Zlatan isn't too flexible in his movement and really wants everything in the attack to go through him or to be aimed towards him, and Shearer isn't the kind of striker that will compliment Zlatan imo.
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In fairness, Shearer seems to be regarded as this lamp-post upfront waiting for a cross to head it in or a good goalmouth scramble to do an Inzaghi. He was in fact quite good at assisting and shooting from long range as well. In fact, I'd argue he was usually the more complete centreforward out of the two-striker setups he usually found himself in (bar when he played with Teddy).

I'd agree both are best served with a striker playing off them, and I can't see Zlatan being very flexible indeed, but Shearer could probably accommodate himself.
 
antohan said:
True, don't get what this hard on for Totti's platform is all about, it's Suárez I can see working brilliantly in this setup. Thuram being the CB on the right is a godsend for Jayvin though. As I said earlier, the worry is on the other side and whether Savicevic takes Hierro to the cleaners with a quick one-two with Totti. I actually find Tito to have the more potent counter threat myself, which is why I'm not overly bothered about having Deco doubling up with Scholes in possession.
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Agreed. Those two have the speed and trickery for counter-attack. Although Jayvin's also have enough power to counter the counter-attack, too.
 
In his peak days, Shearer is the most complete center forward I've seen. Better than Falcao, or even RvN.
 
Stobzilla said:
Whilst he I don't think he is the best attacking of the three I do think he is most vital, he enables the other two to play to their best. IMO at least.
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Indeed, I can see him being a great pivot they can play off building up, as opposed to some striker they have to play through on goal. I don't understand the emphasis on "platform for Totti" as if he were the one who would shine brightest and score all the goals. I think the platform is for those three and that Totti instead is a great sounding board for the other two. I don't think Totti will fill his boots though, which seemed to be the gist of that comparison earlier between him and Shearer-Ibrahimovic.
 
After reading through the thread, I have to say 'poisened chalice' and 'Cruyff all over again' really were perfect descriptions for Totti.

antohan said:
His fullbacks have no one to deal with when he has the ball. When he loses it they need to track back, obviously, but Deschamps is on Totti, Thuram on Suárez and Hierro on Savicevic. The only one of those that may drag his defender wide is Suárez, but Thuram is actually a better fullback than Neville himself so no probs there.
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But he's still playing a 433 here? Without possession I expect the players to stay in their positions and not turn this into a diamond midfield with 2 strikers upfront. So when Jayvin looses the ball, Suarez and Savicevic are out wide and Totti is deep and all 3 are starting to run towards goal with Scholes and Deco providing the build-up from deep? They are starting wide and cutting in, not starting in the box and moving wide. If Jayvin's fullbacks don't keep track of TITO's wide forwards in the first stage of the attack, he's in trouble, imo. You simply can't defend against players running at your centerbacks all the time, you need to cover their runs earlier.

antohan said:
True, don't get what this hard on for Totti's platform is all about, it's Suárez I can see working brilliantly in this setup. Thuram being the CB on the right is a godsend for Jayvin though. As I said earlier, the worry is on the other side and whether Savicevic takes Hierro to the cleaners with a quick one-two with Totti. I actually find Tito to have the more potent counter threat myself, which is why I'm not overly bothered about having Deco doubling up with Scholes in possession.
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I agree with that, TITO should be the one attacking on the counter in this game. Mascherano in with de Rossi next to Scholes looks better to me as well.
 
antohan said:
True, don't get what this hard on for Totti's platform is all about,.
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Because he is possibly the best player on the pitch and would be even better in this side than he would in the Roma 433 where he played the same role.

Perhaps "platform" was the wrong word then but Totti is going to be key to how the side operates.


Totti will keep picking it up into feet, from neat and tidy distribution from Scholes, Deco, De Rossi, take one touch and spin, then sweep a pass out to whoever is running beyond him. Suarez, Savicevic, Scholes.
 
Shearer although I hated him, could do whatever job you required of him as the striker. i am pretty sure he could work with anyone, including ibrahamovich
 
Thisistheone said:
Because he is possibly the best player on the pitch and would be even better in this side than he would in the Roma 433 where he played the same role.

Perhaps "platform" was the wrong word then but Totti is going to be key to how the side operates.


Totti will keep picking it up into feet, from neat and tidy distribution from Scholes, Deco, De Rossi, take one touch and spin, then sweep a pass out whoever is running beyond him. Suarez, Savicevic, Scholes.
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i love Totti, but i don't think he is the best player on the pitch when it comes to effectiveness of swinging the match for his team. i think that will go to seedorf.
 
Balu said:
But he's still playing a 433 here? Without possession I expect the players to stay in their positions and not turn this into a diamond midfield with 2 strikers upfront. So when Jayvin looses the ball, Suarez and Savicevic are out wide and Totti is deep and all 3 are starting to run towards goal with Scholes and Deco providing the build-up from deep? They are starting wide and cutting in, not starting in the box and moving wide. If Jayvin's fullbacks don't keep track of TITO's wide forwards in the first stage of the attack, he's in trouble, imo. You simply can't defend against players running at your centerbacks all the time, you need to cover their runs earlier.
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Exactly this, its a 433 not a 4321
 
Balu said:
After reading through the thread, I have to say 'poisened chalice' and 'Cruyff all over again' really were perfect descriptions for Totti.
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Except that I was referring to Guardiola but you were thinking about Totti. I basically got none of your thoughts right, but still managed to stop you getting Lahm :lol:

But he's still playing a 433 here? Without possession I expect the players to stay in their positions and not turn this into a diamond midfield with 2 strikers upfront. So when Jayvin looses the ball, Suarez and Savicevic are out wide and Totti is deep and all 3 are starting to run towards goal with Scholes and Deco providing the build-up from deep? They are starting wide and cutting in, not starting in the box and moving wide. If Jayvin's fullbacks don't keep track of TITO's wide forwards in the first stage of the attack, he's in trouble, imo. You simply can't defend against players running at your centerbacks all the time, you need to cover their runs earlier.
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I don't think Savicevic would really be starting his run from a wide position or keeping it wide so as to drag the defender. That's what I meant by only seeing Suárez drag Thuram, not because he would start centrally an go wide but because he would start and stay wide to drag him and create the space for the others.
 
sajeev said:
i love Totti, but i don't think he is the best player on the pitch when it comes to effectiveness of swinging the match for his team. i think that will go to seedorf.
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Seedorf the best player on the pitch? Or most vital? Mental.

Since when has Seedorf turned into Neeskens? Crazy.
 
Thisistheone said:
Seedorf the best player on the pitch? Or most vital? Mental.

Since when has Seedorf turned into Neeskens? Crazy.
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well if you are calling Totti the best on the pitch, Seedorf is definitely better than him, just in a different position
 
antohan said:
Except that I was referring to Guardiola but you were thinking about Totti. I basically got none of your thoughts right, but still managed to stop you getting Lahm :lol:
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Un-fecking-believable.

antohan said:
I don't think Savicevic would really be starting his run from a wide position or keeping it wide so as to drag the defender. That's what I meant by only seeing Suárez drag Thuram, not because he would start centrally an go wide but because he would start and stay wide to drag him and create the space for the others.
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Not wide in the sense of running down the line, but still right from Totti in a deeper position where surely none of the centerbacks would cover him while Jayvin is in possession? If you read through the thread, it sounds like he's playing like Inzaghi :D
 
sajeev said:
well if you are calling Totti the best on the pitch, Seedorf is definitely better than him, just in a different position
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Disagree completely.

Seedorf is not better than Totti or Scholes.

Feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here. Seedorf was a superb midfielder but he isn't the best midfielder on the pitch here.
 
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