RedCafe.net Editorial: So, just what has happened to Manchester United?

The defense had improved a lot but definately it still needs its final touches

1 Blanc is getting slow which leaves us vulnreble against fast strikers. Blanc is a good defender but at 36 SAF shouldn't rely so much on him.

2 When Blanc retired we will be left with two very promising But not confirmed defenders ( brown and Oshea) We need another experienced defender which can lead the backline and give us ample competition in the defense.

3 Currently we have only Silvestre as a confirmed left back. I doubt P Nev's defensive abilities and playing him against his feet will not help much.

Trumps I believe that Manutd have the talent to be the best. Its just a year and a half ago when we took the league with a comftable 11 points cushion and much of this team have won the treble so yes if SAF can solve the problems which i have stated before we will be England's greatest.
 
And btw by wanting to sign escude and burdisso ( not fringe players believe me) Fergie had shown that we need to strenghten our backline
 
Originally posted by RUnited:
i said people who think "we are completely OK" have their heads stuck in the clouds.. yes, those of us who see problems have come to terms with reality..
so no, i did not say you had your head stuck in the clouds, as you clearly see problems with the team as well - just in a more optimistic way, which i have no complaints about. so no, my comment was not directed at people who are of your opinions.
<hr></blockquote>

Fair enough, point taken. Although, I don't consider myself an optimist, more a realist. I prefer not to have an extreme view one way or another unless the situation merits it and at the moment I don't feel it does. Obviously we are not the best team at present, but neither are we the worst. There are 17 teams below us and only two above and who we still have to play. I prefer to reserve judgement until I get a clearer idea of the situation and that won't happen until at least the end of December.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>And btw by wanting to sign escude and burdisso ( not fringe players believe me) Fergie had shown that we need to strenghten our backline</strong><hr></blockquote>

point taken.. i guess SAF is looking to spice things up in defence.. although i still have faith in Silvestre and feel that the left back is not the answer to our defensive woes (if any is still left, as like i said, i think we have improved a lot since last year in defence).
 
Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>

Fair enough, point taken. Although, I don't consider myself an optimist, more a realist. I prefer not to have an extreme view one way or another unless the situation merits it and at the moment I don't feel it does. Obviously we are not the best team at present, but neither are we the worst. There are 17 teams below us and only two above and who we still have to play. I prefer to reserve judgement until I get a clearer idea of the situation and that won't happen until at least the end of December.</strong><hr></blockquote>

true.. i agree.. it's always too early to predict results this early in the season.. but it's never too early to detect what we think could be problematic in the long run.. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

Bloody hell, take him outside and have him shot!

A human being making a mistake. :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>

absolutely.. it's ridiculous how people are putting blames on Silvestre.. i think he has been one of our best defenders since last season.. sure he's not settled yet, but he's got a lot of potential..

i believe that his contract couild be distracting him from games every once in a while.. but once this gets settled i think we will be seeing the best of him.
 
The post is an utter and lousy mistake.

Forlan is shit: Man be real. The guy plays jharder than any on the team list currently. And his two goals in the last to prem games may just mean he has now got the hang of it all. Goal scoring. And to say his movement and play in the box lacks strength and sense is wack imo.


Houillier-Wenger tecnique: You fool!!! You want to say the Wiltords, Smicer's, Dioufs and Edu's of this World are united material? Please :rolleyes:

About Silvestre: This season he has been our best defender along with O'shea. and going forward he IS second to none in the league. So YOU are NUTTS to think that he ain't good enough.

About the fullback: We only nedd a left back. Phil Neville IS good cover for Gazza. Besides why can't some people just admit that he does help out the squad alot. Like scoring the first goal vs Southampton. HMMM?


Sell Veron: Get a life. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Buy DiCanio:!!!??? Some one call the asylum. There's a mad man on the loose in our forum. <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />

The ONLY point the article has is about the players we need:

LEftback: Burdisso/ Escude woukld do nicely.
Midfielder: Bouba Diop ffrom Lens for the Prem in January.
LockSmith: Kaka/Ronaldinho or /D'allesandro
Hitman: The non cup tied Jardel or Anelka.
or the cup tied Schecvchenko would do nicely.
Thus sayeth the chief :cool:
 
Having read the posts in this thread I find a lot that saddens me, it’s all talk of winning in Europe or winning the league, statements such as, ‘Europe brings in the money’, it all sounds like if we don’t win something then the club is doomed. Of course the shareholders want success, that way their investment grows, and arguments raging about what is more important Europe or the championship, bollocks. Of course I want to see us sweep all before us, I like it when we win trophies, but it is the penalty we are paying that worries me, success at all cost will turn this club into another Liverpool, do you want us to become another boring Liverpool, the scousers boasting 18 - 4, did you ever see them play, they were the most boring sight I have ever seen play football, does glory hunters ring a bell, where are you going next when it all dries up. I support Manchester United, I have done for 50 years give or take a year, I remember Matt Busby dragging this club from off the floor to the top of the tree, he brought us flair, passion but most of all he gave Manchester United to the fans, he gave us pride in our team, remember the song, ‘Football taught by Matt Busby’, it wasn’t all about winning, it was about a style of play, entertainment is what the fans want, if you win a trophy along the way then that is a bonus. But Sir Matt proved that if you get it right, playing his way then you can be a success and win trophies, but if you fail then you are still a success because people like your style of play, it’s important, it’s the Manchester United way. It’s this style of play that has made us such a big attraction, remember the barren 26 years, yet we were ALWAYS the most watched team in the country, 18 - 4 remember that, and nobody wanted to watch them, says it all doesn’t it. Don’t get me wrong I want us to win everything in sight, but I never lose sight of who we are and what is is all about, this club means everything to me, it’s in my blood, always has been, I know this has been a bit of a rant but it’s just the way I see it, if your a true red then you may understand, if your just a glory hunter, then tough.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
When Blanc retired we will be left with two very promising But not confirmed defenders ( brown and Oshea) We need another experienced defender which can lead the backline and give us ample competition in the defense.

We have Rio Ferdinand. By the end of the season O'Shea will have had enough opportunity to progress. I see these two as a potentially legendary pairing. Wes Brown and Garry Neville can cover although one (probably Neville) will play right back. If we sign another central defender it should be as third or fourth behind Rio, John, Gaz/Wes.


Currently we have only Silvestre as a confirmed left back. I doubt P Nev's defensive abilities and playing him against his feet will not help much.

I agree. Phil's not up to it defensively. He is a good squad player because he can play several positions reasonably but he's not good enough for a first team spot. Having said that, his form in defensive midfield has been great and he might be good enough there. But he wont keep Keane or Butt out.
 
Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong> being in Australia you must be accustomed to a lot of Asians and their languages.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I hear Asian languages all the time but don't know any well enough to pick them out. I meet a lot of Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, Cambodians and Thais but have to ask where they're from.
 
Originally posted by dicko:
<strong>
Originally posted by devilish:
When Blanc retired we will be left with two very promising But not confirmed defenders ( brown and Oshea) We need another experienced defender which can lead the backline and give us ample competition in the defense.

We have Rio Ferdinand. By the end of the season O'Shea will have had enough opportunity to progress. I see these two as a potentially legendary pairing. Wes Brown and Garry Neville can cover although one (probably Neville) will play right back. If we sign another central defender it should be as third or fourth behind Rio, John, Gaz/Wes.


Currently we have only Silvestre as a confirmed left back. I doubt P Nev's defensive abilities and playing him against his feet will not help much.

I agree. Phil's not up to it defensively. He is a good squad player because he can play several positions reasonably but he's not good enough for a first team spot. Having said that, his form in defensive midfield has been great and he might be good enough there. But he wont keep Keane or Butt out.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Play gary neville in the centre. Very under-rated at centre-half me thinks.
 
Gary doesnt have the physical frame and is vital in his rb role. His communication with Becks is the main weopon Manutd have to exploit to the full the right flank
 
Originally posted by redfan:
Having read the posts in this thread I find a lot that saddens me, it’s all talk of winning in Europe or winning the league, statements such as, ‘Europe brings in the money’, it all sounds like if we don’t win something then the club is doomed. Of course the shareholders want success, that way their investment grows, and arguments raging about what is more important Europe or the championship, bollocks. Of course I want to see us sweep all before us, I like it when we win trophies, but it is the penalty we are paying that worries me, success at all cost will turn this club into another Liverpool, do you want us to become another boring Liverpool, the scousers boasting 18 - 4, did you ever see them play, they were the most boring sight I have ever seen play football, does glory hunters ring a bell, where are you going next when it all dries up. I support Manchester United, I have done for 50 years give or take a year, I remember Matt Busby dragging this club from off the floor to the top of the tree, he brought us flair, passion but most of all he gave Manchester United to the fans, he gave us pride in our team, remember the song, ‘Football taught by Matt Busby’, it wasn’t all about winning, it was about a style of play, entertainment is what the fans want, if you win a trophy along the way then that is a bonus. But Sir Matt proved that if you get it right, playing his way then you can be a success and win trophies, but if you fail then you are still a success because people like your style of play, it’s important, it’s the Manchester United way. It’s this style of play that has made us such a big attraction, remember the barren 26 years, yet we were ALWAYS the most watched team in the country, 18 - 4 remember that, and nobody wanted to watch them, says it all doesn’t it. Don’t get me wrong I want us to win everything in sight, but I never lose sight of who we are and what is is all about, this club means everything to me, it’s in my blood, always has been, I know this has been a bit of a rant but it’s just the way I see it, if your a true red then you may understand, if your just a glory hunter, then tough.<hr></blockquote>

Brilliant post! Agree with every single thing you've said. As I wrote myself in another post, our attendances were frequently greater than Livershite even when they were sweeping all before them, and it was something to be proud of.

The other thing I was always loved about United was the way we never gave up even when we were playing badly. I recall a game in the mid-80s when we were playing Sheffield Wednesday and we were 2-0 (I think!) down, never once looked like scoring but still kept going forward just in case. Of course, we lost the match, the title chase having been long over, but it reinfored why I supported them. Never was this never-say-die attitude more apparent than in our glory years, which will be remembered not just for the trophies we won (unlike the bindippers) but for the way we won them. Even the years we didn't win, particularly 95 and, hell, even last year, we kept fighting till the end. This is why the current doom and gloom makes me so sad. The team may not be playing well but they have not forgotten the art of the fightback. How many matches this season have we come from a goal down to either salvage a point or even win? It proves we are still being true to our tradition and that always gives me hope never to give up on the team because they never give up on themselves.
 
I admire all those Manutd supporters who have followed the team through the good times and the bad times.

Altough I may not understand it fully the pain felt, I do joined United before their glory. And being a Manutd follower in A nearly Scouser family was something difficult to bear

Yet altough I accept Manutd's decline, I think that the club should aim on honours rather than good play. I mean we all play for honours because this is wat it is remembered.

For example we played crap in the CL final against Bayern Munich. But who cares?? The important thing is that we won the real treble, an honour that NO ONE can strip us from it.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>I admire all those Manutd supporters who have followed the team through the good times and the bad times.

Yet altough I accept Manutd's decline, I think that the club should aim on honours rather than good play. I mean we all play for honours because this is wat it is remembered.

For example we played crap in the CL final against Bayern Munich. But who cares?? The important thing is that we won the real treble, an honour that NO ONE can strip us from it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

26 years and not a single championship, yet we were the best supported and the team EVERONE wanted to watch, 18 - 4 means feck all to me because we have style we are Manchester United, the team everybody looks up to, the team to shoot down, my team, when you think football you think Manchester United, God it makes you shudder.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>


Yet altough I accept Manutd's decline, I think that the club should aim on honours rather than good play. I mean we all play for honours because this is wat it is remembered.

For example we played crap in the CL final against Bayern Munich. But who cares?? The important thing is that we won the real treble, an honour that NO ONE can strip us from it.</strong><hr></blockquote>


:eek: Sacrilege!

And whilst we may have not played well in the CL Final, we played bloody well in all the rest of the CL games. As well as anyone else in the tournament. No-one could say we didn't deserve to be in the final and whilst it would have been good to perform well, overall we were the best team in the competition that year.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>Gary doesnt have the physical frame and is vital in his rb role. His communication with Becks is the main weopon Manutd have to exploit to the full the right flank</strong><hr></blockquote>

G Neville is not a right-back, his pace is average and his distribution is mediocre to say the least, two vital ingredients for a modern day full-back plus his reading of the game at RB is not the best. His centre-half performances however are another matter altogether whereby his reading of the game dramatically improves and his organizational skills can be better utilized.
 
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


:eek: Sacrilege!

And whilst we may have not played well in the CL Final, we played bloody well in all the rest of the CL games. As well as anyone else in the tournament. No-one could say we didn't deserve to be in the final and whilst it would have been good to perform well, overall we were the best team in the competition that year.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree.

And our style is everything.
 
Well if style is everything we are in trouble because our current football is very mediocre, to many long balls, misplaced passes and lack of imagination.

I agree that winning is not everything, and that how you play the game is important, and to me that is one of the saddest things of where we are at now - like Austin Powers, we've lost our mojo.

our current football is simply not the swashbuckling stuff Manchester United have the reputation for playing and that is real cause for concern.

On the up-side though we do have players capable of playing entertaining football, we can only hope that things kick into gear soon...
 
Originally posted by redfan:
<strong>

26 years and not a single championship, yet we were the best supported and the team EVERONE wanted to watch, 18 - 4 means feck all to me because we have style we are Manchester United, the team everybody looks up to, the team to shoot down, my team, when you think football you think Manchester United, God it makes you shudder.</strong><hr></blockquote>

going to sound stupid.. but what is 18-4?

are you referring to the number of titles we were down to Liverpool by before SAF came in?
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

G Neville is not a right-back, his pace is average and his distribution is mediocre to say the least, two vital ingredients for a modern day full-back plus his reading of the game at RB is not the best. His centre-half performances however are another matter altogether whereby his reading of the game dramatically improves and his organizational skills can be better utilized.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i agree. GNev is overrated as a right back by our fans and is very much underrated as a centerback.

we have seen him play in CB and he was doing a great job... he lacks the height, but he makes up for it with his tackling skills.
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

G Neville is not a right-back, his pace is average and his distribution is mediocre to say the least, two vital ingredients for a modern day full-back plus his reading of the game at RB is not the best. His centre-half performances however are another matter altogether whereby his reading of the game dramatically improves and his organizational skills can be better utilized.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not sure how you can say that when he's playing some of the best football of his career at the moment. You may have a point about CB being his best position. Nothing wrong with Gary's pace either.
 
Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>

Not sure how you can say that when he's playing some of the best football of his career at the moment. You may have a point about CB being his best position. Nothing wrong with Gary's pace either.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Compare his performances at RB with CH and you'll see. His pace is average, nothing more.
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>Compare his performances at RB with CH and you'll see. His pace is average, nothing more.</strong><hr></blockquote>

He has the same legs no matter where hes playing doesnt he? How would a change of position affect his pace?
Which games do you think he excelled in as cenre half?
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

He has the same legs no matter where hes playing doesnt he? How would a change of position affect his pace?
Which games do you think he excelled in as cenre half?</strong><hr></blockquote>

His pace is adequate for a centre-half but not really quick enough for an over-lapping full-back.

Pace is only one dimension, his tackling and organizational skills can be utilized better in the heart of the defence.

He hardly ever has a bad game at centre-half.
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>He hardly ever has a bad game at centre-half.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Same as full back.
Anyway, you wanted rid of him and his brother 6 months ago, whats changed?
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

Same as full back.
Anyway, you wanted rid of him and his brother 6 months ago, whats changed?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You are just looking for a fight with me every chance you have, aren't you?

Bugger off, irish-in-sweden. You are a complete blinekred turd so don't waste my time or yours with senseless quarrels.

<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>You are just looking for a fight with me every chance you have, aren't you?
Bugger off, irish-in-sweden. You are a complete blinekred turd so don't waste my time or yours with senseless quarrels. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Listen dickhead, for starters your the one that started this in the other thread,
I answered something your Scrathcy bum chum said and then you come in days later with one of your trademark smirks.
What does my location or nationality have to do with it?
Why am i blinkered?
Did you cheer when Diego & Phil scored.
Mind the temper
<img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

Listen dickhead, for starters your the one that started this in the other thread,
I answered something your Scrathcy bum chum said and then you come in days later with one of your trademark smirks.
What does my location or nationality have to do with it?
Why am i blinkered?
Did you cheer when Diego & Phil scored.
Mind the temper
<img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>


You know the answer to why you are blinkered.

Now kindly feck off...
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>
You know the answer to why you are blinkered.
Now kindly feck off...</strong><hr></blockquote>

I presume you call me blinkered because i tend to suppor the team through thick and thin.
I call you a sunshine supporter because as soon as something doesnt go 100% right you make one of your famous "well calculated over a long time knee jerk reactions" <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> and call for a whole new defence etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,,,

Now answer me why you constantly bring my nationality & location into it?
Is their a problem with me being Irish, or living in sweden (or is it relevant,,, Muppet in Malaysia?
<img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />
 
You can call it sacrilege as you want but for god sake let us be honest at least with ourself!!! For many reasons we are not playing well and this had been showed in our games in the EPL

Pls dont comment on the CL. We played against

A Depleted Bayern Levekusen which have lost their two major players
An out of form Olympiakos who havent yet played in their league
A Promising yet rookie M Haifa who hammered us away despite having confirmed first team players like R Ferdinard, G Nev and Silvestre in the side

It's not all gloomy and bad. We HAVE the players and the STAFF to return to our best. Yet comeon we must confess to ourselves that we need to improve and in certian positions reinforce.
 
BTW I wouldnt swap Gaz communication with becks for any thing in the world.

He's a good player but his physical frame makes him better if utilised on the right altough I would not close the door of an eventual insertion in the heart of the defender

Thats why we need another experienced defender (ayala). It will give us the time to decide who will be the best defender ( Oshea Brown and Gaz) to eventually succeed him
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>BTW I wouldnt swap Gaz communication with becks for any thing in the world.

He's a good player but his physical frame makes him better if utilised on the right altough I would not close the door of an eventual insertion in the heart of the defender

Thats why we need another experienced defender (ayala). It will give us the time to decide who will be the best defender ( Oshea Brown and Gaz) to eventually succeed him</strong><hr></blockquote>


i actually agree that we need another CB after this season.. maybe possibly even as soon as January.. but not ayala though.. i was never fond of him.. someone a little bit more experienced and old would be my choice.. maybe 31 or 32.. so he wouldn't complain about the rotation thing that we do a lot.

Maybe Lilian Thuram? He's good at both CB and RB so we can swap Gaz around with him?
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

I presume you call me blinkered because i tend to suppor the team through thick and thin.
I call you a sunshine supporter because as soon as something doesnt go 100% right you make one of your famous "well calculated over a long time knee jerk reactions" <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> and call for a whole new defence etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,,,

Now answer me why you constantly bring my nationality & location into it?
Is their a problem with me being Irish, or living in sweden (or is it relevant,,, Muppet in Malaysia?
<img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

I only know that you are a blinkered nut, that's all there is to know
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>I only know that you are a blinkered nut, that's all there is to know</strong><hr></blockquote>

Rather a fan who supports his team to a borderline ABU.
 
Ayala is Argies captian with more than 60 caps for his nation

He's solid,influential, fast and altough he is short no one has ever bullied him on air.

The thing about Ayala is that next year he will be on free and with an Italian passport we will not have problems with him

Thuram is good but would cost Manutd at least 8-10m.

Ayala is Argentinian's column and leader at the back, and at 31 yr he would prove priceless in our young defense
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>Ayala is Argies captian with more than 60 caps for his nation

He's solid,influential, fast and altough he is short no one has ever bullied him on air.

The thing about Ayala is that next year he will be on free and with an Italian passport we will not have problems with him

Thuram is good but would cost Manutd at least 8-10m.

Ayala is Argentinian's column and leader at the back, and at 31 yr he would prove priceless in our young defense</strong><hr></blockquote>

i don't know how you're doing it, but you seem to be doing a good job at swaying my interest. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

anyway.. i still rate Thuram very highly and he also has a big edge over ayala in that he will give Barthez one more French buddy in defence. i think it will be crucial in terms of communications.
 
Originally posted by RUnited
i agree. GNev is overrated as a right back by our fans and is very much underrated as a centerback.

Originally posted by Ichk
Compare his performances at RB with CH and you'll see. His pace is average<hr></blockquote>

SAF once said that Gary Neville was a couple of inches short of being a great centre back. That's why it will never be his best position even though he may be better at it than at right back. A central defender needs height above everything, especially in the EPL, where so much defensive work is done in the air and Gary doesn't have it, so can only be utilised as a cover.

And for those people slagging off his ability at right back; exactly how many matches have you seen him play this season? I have been to OT a few times and I can assure you he's been absolutely brilliant for us, and his understanding with Beckham is second to none.