Redcafe Champions League Draft QF3 - Kps v Fergus

Who will win based on players in their prime, team tactics, balance & bench strength?

  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .

Theon

Lord of the Iron Islands
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
13,370
kps88 said:
TACTICS

Defence: There is an abundance of strength and aggression in this back four. The Kohler-Costacurta partnership is one of the strongest pairings in the draft and, in Salgado and Cole, I have two very solid full backs. This is the same Ashely Cole who has never conceded a goal to Messi, despite directly being up against him on numerous occasions. No soft targets here - all four had supreme mental strength, stamina and aggression and will take some getting past.

Midfield: Davids and Redondo form the base of an energetic, all dominant midfield. Drafting in Redondo adds further creativity from deep, making it virtually impossible to stop this midfield.
Davids will play a classic box to box role and will contribute going forward as well. Redondo will do what he does best and control the game. They will establish midfield control and provide a base from which Riquelme can influence the game further up the pitch.

Wingers: If things start to get too tight in midfield, this team has the luxury of two blisteringly quick wingers on either flank. Both are capable of beating their full back 1 v 1, or using their pace to race onto a ball played over the top. Gonzalez will whip in his signature left footed crosses for Vieri or Ronaldo to head home.

Ronaldo is up against Irwin here. As much as we love Irwin, he's going to have a hard 90 minutes. Ronnie will try everything to exert his influence on the game and won’t stop until he succeeds. He will take on his fullback with trickery or pace to get a cross in, cut inside for a shot on goal, drift infield, take on his centre back, get inside the box for a cross from the left etc. It’s almost guaranteed one of these methods will bring him success and goals.

Striker: Vieri offers the irresistible combination of power, pace and clinical finishing. His unmatched heading ability will be made use of by the wide men as well as Riquelme’s set pieces. Again, if things get too crowded in midfield, he is an excellent outlet to have as a target man to lump it forward to. He will use his tank like strength hold up the ball well, win headers and bring the wide men into play.

Super Sub: Not much needs to be said about the baby faced assassin. He is waiting on the bench to change things up if a goal is needed.


PLAYER PROFILES

Hugo Lloris – Three time keeper of the year in France and he has established himself in England as well. A brilliant shot stopper and sweeper.

Michel Salgado: 2 time CL winner and a bit of a nutter. He was tough, aggressive and not to be messed with. Had a great engine on him; will run up and down the right flank all day.

Jurgen Kohler: One of the greatest man markers of all time. Has won league titles with Bayern, Juventus and Dortmund. Also has a CL and World Cup medal to his name. He was strong as an ox and unbeatable in the air. Think Vidic on steroids.

Allesandro Costacurta: Part of the legendary Milan back four of the 90s. Billy has more than 450 caps for Milan and has won everything there is to win with them, including 7 league titles and 5 CLs.

Ashley Cole: Perhaps the best left back of his generation. Equally capable going forward and defending.

Edgar Davids: A beast of a midfielder. Was named in the Euro 2000 and WC 98 all star teams. Will bring power, energy and drive to the midfield.

Fernando Redondo: Perhaps the greatest defensive midfielder in the draft. Capable of contributing both off and on the ball. Hugely influential for Real Madrid and helped them win everything there was to win.

Juan Roman Riquelme: Supremely gifted playmaker, capable of effortlessly drifting around the pitch and running the game.

Cristiano Ronaldo: Not much needs to be said. Goal scoring machine, capable of doing it all.

Kily Gonzalez: Part of the great Valencia side of the early 2000s. Lightening quick and a great crosser of the ball.

Christian Vieri: Built like an ox. At his peak, Bobo had pace and power and was almost unplayable. He holds the record for most headed goals scored in Serie A history.

(SUB) Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: Super Sub. Can be the difference between a draw and a win.
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Team Kps​
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Vs​
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Team Fergus​

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Fergus' son said:
Tactics

The basis of my team is formed by solid partnerships throughout, beginning with Walter Samuel and Robert Ayala, who played with each other on a number of occasions for the Argentine national team. This experience of playing together means they have an understanding not shared by many partnerships in this draft and will be completely in tune with one another – an important quality for any great cb partnership. They are flanked by Irwin and Thuram, two of the most reliable full backs of all time, both had a great awareness of how to lock their wing down defensively, yet also when to creep forward and contribute in an attacking sense. Irwin in particular had fantastic quality on the ball, his delivery was as good as most wingers and there will certainly be a time when he delivers a pin point cross for Batigol to finish.




My midfield trio contains 3 of the most important players for their respective teams. Makekele was described by Zidane as the ‘engine’ of the Real Madrid Galacticos, Bastian Schweinsteiger as the ‘brain’ of the German national side by Joachim Lowe, and SAF called Scholes ‘my best player’. All have huge experience and are adept at playing against the very best competition without buckling. Scholes is more than capable of getting into the nitty gritty of a midfield battle, as he will have to do, but as he is supported by an extremely solid pair in Claude and Bastian, he will also be free to dictate much of my teams passing game, something he could easily do in a two man midfield, never mind a three as strong as I have currently. Its not hard for any of us on here to imagine Scholes constantly pinging the ball out wide to Messi, inside left to Villa, to the feet of Messi centrally or over the top for Batigol to bury.






Bastian will be providing good defensive cover and his extreme quality on the ball will also be vital when possession changes hands. Moreover, as Schweinsteiger has played much of his career on the right wing, he will be providing runs out wide right to allow Messi the freedom to move inside if he wishes. Thuram should have that wing locked down defensively so this interchange can occur as Messi and Bastian see fit usually, Messi's creative game is brilliant from the wing but he also thrives coming off the wing into the centre where he can slip balls through to Batigol and Villa and link up neatly with another supreme passer, Scholes. When in possession and Messi moves inside my formation could resemble something like this:


Makelele Scholes​
Bastian---Messi---Villa​
Batigol​


However, Messi’s starting position will be on the right, a position from which he scored 40 goals and won the ballon dor. This is because Batigol is in the central striker position, Maradona describing him as the best striker he has ever seen. Him, Messi and Villa will prove too much for any defence, particularly with a solid midfield like mine to back them up. Messi on the wing is a devastating prospect as it leaves a fullback exposed to him one on one, a battle which Messi is more than likely to win, forcing the opposition cbs out of position and leaving room for Batigol, Villa and late runs of Bastian and in particular Scholes into the box.

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Fergus' son said:
Pepe Reina - a safe and reliable pair of hands, Reina won the premier leagues golden glove award three years in a row from 05-08, keeping clean sheets in more than half of his first 200 games.

Denis Irwin -best known for his long and successful stint at Manchester United, where he established himself as one of the most important players in the United team that won a host of domestic and European trophies in his time there between 1990 and 2002. He has been regarded by Alex Ferguson as pound for pound his greatest ever signing. Comfortable on either foot and had a great balance between being defensively sound and helping out his wing partner with attacking contributions.

Roberto Ayala - Regarded as one of the best central defenders of his generation, Ayala captained the Argentine national team for more matches (63) than anyone. He played in three World Cups and made a total 115 international appearances, with only Javier Zanetti getting more caps for Argentina.

Walter Samuel - Samuel has been regarded as one of football's toughest defenders, with teammate and Inter captain Javier Zanetti referring to him as the "hardest player" he has played with. Gifted with natural power and pace, Samuel played a key role in Inter's treble success in the 2009–10 season under Mourinho and has over 50 caps for the Argentine national team. His strong, uncompromising style of play has earnt him the nickname Il Muro ("The Wall").

Lilian Thuram - the most capped player in the history of the France national team, and one of the twenty most capped players of all time, he is widely regarded as one of the best RBs to ever play the game, and the best defensive RB ever.

Claude Makelele - considered one of the greatest defensive midfielders of all time, so much so that many have dubbed the position 'the Makelele role'. When Real sold him and bought Beckham, this is what Zidane had to say "Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you are losing the entire engine?"

Bastian Schweinsteiger - Dubbed the "Midfield Motor", Schweinsteiger is also a superb reader of the game and has scored spectacularly due to his good positioning. He has been called "the brain" of the German national team by his coach Joachim Löw and is a key component of the treble winning Bayern team.

Paul Scholes - Needs little introduction, regarding by his peers as one of the best and most complete midfielders of his generation.

Lionel Messi - Needs no introduction, arguably the greatest of all time.

David Villa - Equally at ease as a striker or as a wing forward, Villa is one of the best and most successful players of his generation. He has played a key part in winning every trophy possible for his club and country, and is currently the leading goalscorer for the Spanish national team.

Gabriel Batistuta - he is Argentina's all-time leading goalscorer, with 56 goals in 78 national team matches, with an all-round game with clinical finishing, heading and free-kick taking abilities, he is known as one of the most complete strikers of his generation. Diego Maradona has also said that Batistuta is the best striker he has ever seen play the game.

Subs

Micheal Tarnat -a left back and sometimes a left wing back, Tarnat was a very reliable defender who excelled at providing excellent support for his flank partner. In his first season at Bayern, he impressed so much that he kept the highly rated Lizarazu on the bench. He is tenacious, and has a fantastic shot and free kick.

Thomas Muller - the most versatile and one of the most effective players in the game today, Muller was vital to the treble winning Bayern team. Müller plays as a midfielder orforward, and has been deployed in a variety of attacking roles—as an attacking midfielder,second striker, and on either wing. He has been praised for his pace, technique and composure, and has shown consistency in scoring and creating goals.

Pablo Aimar - one of the most gifted number tens of his generation, he is a fantastic playmaker, with great vision, passing and shot.

Andreas Moller - He was a playmaker known for his range of passing and goalscoring ability and a vital part of the success of the German national team and Dortmund during the mid 90's.
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Normally Redondo and Davids would be a pretty good basis for Riquelme, who can be lazy and sulky at the best of times, yet today those 3 are up against a particulalrly hard working and solid midfield trio of Makelele, Schweinsteiger, and Scholes. Of all the midfielders Riquelme is going to struggle the most to impose himself on the game, and the Redondo and Davids partnership will suffer from his poor work rate. Without his passing ability there's seems to be a little lack of craft in kps team. Ronaldo isn't anywhere near as creative as Messi and Kily Gonzales sticks out like a sore thumb in this match, hardly good enough to start in the first round never mind the quarter finals IMO.
 
Villa is okay on the left I will take into account his Barca form because he never played on the left before. Too much quality in Fergus' team and that midfield three is top notch. The backline is solid I don't like Samuel but he will do.
 
Bloody hell, I thought the keepers may have settled it, but nope. Can't separate the sides.

kps, you should have Davids and Redondo the other way around. Davids is a leftie so it makes more sense for starters, but also to have Davids covering Fergus' stronger flank and Redondo overloading his defensively weakest one.

Key battles:
  • Possession in midfield, Fergus has a bit more muscle while kps may be hampered by how arsed Riquelme is on the day. Both have a pretty balanced midfield unit.
  • Cristiano vs. Irwin, I reckon Cristiano gets a lot more joy there than Villa on Salgado.
  • But then Messi vs. Cole >>> Kily vs. Thuram
  • Out of all four fullbacks Cole is the most competent supporting the attack though
  • Strikers vs. defences, both pairs are competent and could handle their man. Fergus is well equipped to deal with Vieri's aerial threat, but what about pace?
There's a lot of evenness and scope for a moment of individual brilliance settling it.

What I can't shake out of my head is Ayala/Samuel on the turn, and after turning. A Redondo/Riquelme turnover ball and triggering of a counter via Vieri/Cristiano vs. Ayala/Samuel. That could end very badly.
 
IMO, Vieri can be dealt with usually by great defenders performing well. Same cannot be said of Batigol, who has troubled and scored against the very best defences of recent times, namely the Serie A defences of the 90's, and certainly the same cannot be said of Messi. There's a gulf between Batigol and Vieri, and Messi and Ronaldo, both in my favour.
 
So Messi vs Ronaldo! No more than that for sure.

I rate Batigol over Vieri but also Kohler and Costacurta over Samuel and Ayala so no big advatage in the striker position for any team imo.

Ronaldo on the right is understandable so he gets away from Thuram but also prefer Ronaldo on the left cutting inside with this right foot. Still he will create against Irwin. Messi against Cole, well Messi will have a big impact on the game from that position with a lot of the ball.

Makelele will work well against Riquelme but then I really love Redondo and with Davids by his side I see them being the better pair than Scholes and Schweinsteiger.

Really hard one for me this one, will sit on my vote and see what happens in the game.
 
Fergus' son said:
IMO, Vieri can be dealt with usually by great defenders performing well. Same cannot be said of Batigol, who has troubled and scored against the very best defences of recent times, namely the Serie A defences of the 90's, and certainly the same cannot be said of Messi. There's a gulf between Batigol and Vieri, and Messi and Ronaldo, both in my favour.
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I think you are severely underrating Vieri there. Take their peak Serie A form and Vieri was outscoring Batistuta (0.85gpg vs. 0.75gpg). I did point out your CB pair is well equipped to deal with one of his key weapons: he is the all-time Serie A top scorer of headed goals. The other area I rate him is at pace on the counter. He was like a bulldozer, and you could be in real trouble there.

Whatever differential there is is absorbed by Kohler-Costacurta being a better CB pair than Samuel-Ayala.

Messi has dominated Ronaldo as a false 9 at Barca, not as a right winger. When Messi was a right winger it was Ronaldo getting the Ballon d'Or.

They are looked after by Cole and Irwin respectively, both top class fullbacks.

It's very tight.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Villa is okay on the left I will take into account his Barca form because he never played on the left before. Too much quality in Fergus' team and that midfield three is top notch. The backline is solid I don't like Samuel but he will do.
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Yeah, understandably some people prefer Villa through the centre, however with Batistuta and Messi in the team he just can fit there and he has proven to be fantastic on the left for Barcelona, working for the benefit of the whole team. He and Messi have a great understanding and he will be bypassing Salgado and getting into the box on many occassion, both to support Batigol and to latch on to either a Messi, Scholes or Bastian inside pass. His finishing off the left is pretty good too, he has the 'cut inside and curl' shot in his arsenal and he's proven so many times.
 
If we're going with Ronaldo vs Messi there's no question who will get the better of their duels.

Ronaldo is up against Irwin, with Villa ahead of him, who will offer nothing defensively. If Scholes decides to try and help out defensively, he's going to get sent off! Like I mentioned, Ronaldo will be given license to roam and take on his center back too, who in this case is Samuel. He will most definitely beat his full back and center back when it comes to pace and I can see him getting on the end of a Redondo/Riquelme through ball.

Messi is up against Ashely Cole, who is an excellent 1v1 defender. Messi has faced Cole 5 times and has yet to score a goal. There's also a certain Kohler on that side, who was one of the best man markers around.
 
And I see Fergus has started off his tactics bigging up the Ayala-Samuel partnership again despite Cutch's findings last time out -

Cutch said:
Ayala/Samuel Partnership?

So, i've done a bit of digging here to try and establish the record of these 2 playing together which a few of you speak so highly of, and to be honest i'm struggling. Looking at the major international tournaments that these 2 should have played together in.

1999 Copa America - Unconvincing performances in groups including a 3-0 drubbing by Columbia with Samuel subbed off at half time.
Eliminated in quarters 2-1 to Brazil whilst playing 3 at back.

2002 World Cup - Disappointing tournament. Eliminated in groups. Ayala didn't feature at all. Results included a loss to England and a draw with Sweden.

2004 Copa America - Lost in final to Brazil. The first choice defence was a 3 and appeared to consist of Ayala, Heinze and Coloccini.

2006 World Cup - Samuel didnt play a single game.

2010 World Cup - Ayala didn't play a single game.
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Yeah, I don't think Vieri is in the same class as Batigol. Batigol played for the much inferior teams and is still regarded as the better striker than Vieri, I doubt anyone will disagree. The gpg can probably be accounted for by the inferior team that Batigol played in, look at thier international records instead, has scored far more and has a better ratio. Most of batigols goals in Serie A came in the 90s too, where most agree the best defences of recent times have played.

You completely overstate the pace Vieri has for some reason IMO, we probably won't agree on that.
 
Batistuta is the better player, no question. Me thinking you underrate Vieri doesn't imply the opposite. As I said, there is still a difference but I reckon the better defensive pairing makes up for it.
 
If I had to pick, yes Batistuta does get the edge over Vieri. The gap between the center backs is much larger though.
 
antohan said:
Bloody hell, I thought the keepers may have settled it, but nope. Can't separate the sides.

kps, you should have Davids and Redondo the other way around. Davids is a leftie so it makes more sense for starters, but also to have Davids covering Fergus' stronger flank and Redondo overloading his defensively weakest one.

Key battles:
  • Possession in midfield, Fergus has a bit more muscle while kps may be hampered by how arsed Riquelme is on the day. Both have a pretty balanced midfield unit.
  • Cristiano vs. Irwin, I reckon Cristiano gets a lot more joy there than Villa on Salgado.
  • But then Messi vs. Cole >>> Kily vs. Thuram
  • Out of all four fullbacks Cole is the most competent supporting the attack though
  • Strikers vs. defences, both pairs are competent and could handle their man. Fergus is well equipped to deal with Vieri's aerial threat, but what about pace?
There's a lot of evenness and scope for a moment of individual brilliance settling it.

What I can't shake out of my head is Ayala/Samuel on the turn, and after turning. A Redondo/Riquelme turnover ball and triggering of a counter via Vieri/Cristiano vs. Ayala/Samuel. That could end very badly.
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Nice post, I think this is pretty much spot on.

On the bolded part - to say the least, I reckon they are both brilliantly balanced. Completely different but both have a nice mix between defence/creativity in their midfields
 
Fergus' son said:
Come one mate, let's not insult Scholes or the intelligence of the voters! ;)
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He's not used to playing in that sort of system with a player like Ronaldo on his side to worry about! I simply think he won't even bother trying to help out on that flank once he gets his yellow card for hacking at Ronaldo.
 
kps88 said:
If we're going with Ronaldo vs Messi there's no question who will get the better of their duels.

Ronaldo is up against Irwin, with Villa ahead of him, who will offer nothing defensively. If Scholes decides to try and help out defensively, he's going to get sent off! Like I mentioned, Ronaldo will be given license to roam and take on his center back too, who in this case is Samuel. He will most definitely beat his full back and center back when it comes to pace and I can see him getting on the end of a Redondo/Riquelme through ball.

Messi is up against Ashely Cole, who is an excellent 1v1 defender. Messi has faced Cole 5 times and has yet to score a goal. There's also a certain Kohler on that side, who was one of the best man markers around.
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Villa is hard worker, you have to be to be an essential component of that Barcelona/Spain team. Added to that he's up against Salgado, who literally has no protection, I can see him doing his bit without the ball and being rather dangerous when my team has it.

So is Kohler doing a man marking job?
 
kps88 said:
He's not used to playing in that sort of system with a player like Ronaldo on his side to worry about! I simply think he won't even bother trying to help out on that flank once he gets his yellow card for hacking at Ronaldo.
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Simply not true, Scholes is a great compete midifielder, he and Keane used to share defensive responsibility pretty equally when they worked in a midfield two, and today he is in a three.

Downplaying Scholes defensive ability is stretching it, saying he will get sent off is bordering on absurd. As if he 'won't bother', that's ludicrous in all honesty, and pretty a strange thing for you to bring up considering you have Riquelme in your team ;).
 
Fergus' son said:
Villa is hard worker, you have to be to be an essential component of that Barcelona/Spain team. Added to that he's up against Salgado, who literally has no protection, I can see him doing his bit without the ball and being rather dangerous when my team has it.

So is Kohler doing a man marking job?
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I disagree with regards to Villa. The wing forwards rarely have to much defensive work for Barcelona since they're so good at pressing and winning the ball in midfield.

Obviously not. Just making the point he's not going to get caught out by Messi is he tries to get away from Cole.
 
A Vidic type player, like Kohler is, IMO isn't the best for covering a lb playing against Messi. I really rate Kohler so don't think it's a huge deal but a sweeper type with experience of playing lb would be better in that position. There's some great players in Cole, Kohler and Messi in that part of the pitch yet Messi is clearly atleast a level or two above the other two, and should eventually get the better of them.
 
I don't think it's too absurd to suggest Scholes is going to have a hard time contributing defensively when he has Ronaldo on his side. He's one of the easiest players to beat 1v1 since he'll either hack you down or let you go past him.

Anyway, I think the main strength of my team is it's spine - Davids and Redondo with Kohler and Costacurta behind them. I think i'll concede less goals compared to Fergus.
 
Very well matched teams. Think the Kily criticism is a wee bit harsh, he was one of the very best left wingers 15 years ago.
 
Theon said:
Nice post, I think this is pretty much spot on.

On the bolded part - to say the least, I reckon they are both brilliantly balanced. Completely different but both have a nice mix between defence/creativity in their midfields
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I agree, but I think mine is full of hard workers and grafters and great passers in Scholes and Bastian (Messi will contribute too) whereas Riquelme for the opposition is the closest you get to a 'luxury player' in this game (probably in this draft) and you can't envisage him getting stuck into a monumental battle like this, I can't anyway. On the other hand how many battling and dig deep performances have my trio got between them? Loads I say.

Also, my wide forwards, Messi and Villa are far more adept at contributing to the midfield than either Ronaldo or Kily. Messi is as good with the ball as most of the best midfielders out there, he and Scholes could easily work similar to he and Xavi.
 
No concerns over Villa on the left, as proven by his Spain performances in 2008 and 2010 rather than anything he did with Barcelona.
 
Gio said:
No concerns over Villa on the left, as proven by his Spain performances in 2008 and 2010 rather than anything he did with Barcelona.
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He is solid there he is best in the middle but with Messi and Batistuta he will get his chances. Playing centreforward and drifting left (like Henry also did) is different from playing as left sided forward both players had to adjust.
 
Batistuta was better but Vieri was no scrub one of the best strikers of is generation. I don't like Ayala and Samuel (who has always been slow and somewhat clumsy) as a pairing.
 
Fergus' son said:
Yeah, understandably some people prefer Villa through the centre, however with Batistuta and Messi in the team he just can fit there and he has proven to be fantastic on the left for Barcelona, working for the benefit of the whole team. He and Messi have a great understanding and he will be bypassing Salgado and getting into the box on many occassion, both to support Batigol and to latch on to either a Messi, Scholes or Bastian inside pass. His finishing off the left is pretty good too, he has the 'cut inside and curl' shot in his arsenal and he's proven so many times.
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True, he can play there and the team does have enough quality for him to get his moments. He was not world class on the left.
 
Gio said:
Very well matched teams. Think the Kily criticism is a wee bit harsh, he was one of the very best left wingers 15 years ago.
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I think Irwin is getting underrated personally, better than Evra IMO certainly and it's close between he and Cole. Scholes and Irwin have worked together before which will come in handy and Irwins passing/crossing was fantastic, better than many fullbacks since.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFmtjuIdL14


www.youtube.com/watch?v=e63KpuqGP38



Let's not forget Kily is up against one of the greatest too, in Thuram. I think Thuram can handle him and Ayala won't be required to cover as much as he would vs a better LW, leaving him relatively free to nullify Vieri.
 
JaffyJoe said:
True, he can play there and the team does have enough quality for him to get his moments. He was not world class on the left.
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Depends what his role is. He was world class for Spain in the inside left channel in both 2008 and 2010. But the risk is attacking a space occupied by Batistuta and an incoming Messi, or in operating as an outside left where the traditional wing skills of a Kily would be more appropriate.
 
Say what you want about Samuel, but he was an absolute brick wall for Mourinhos Inter during the treble season. Apologies for not imbedding the videos everyone, can't figure out how to do so on the iPad.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooN6OkJk1bE
 
Fergus' son said:
There's some great players in Cole, Kohler and Messi in that part of the pitch yet Messi is clearly atleast a level or two above the other two, and should eventually get the better of them.
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Based on that logic we should give you the trophy now. Which left back out there is better suited to dealing with Messi than Cole? Defensively he has to be the best in the draft by some distance. I agree Kohler is not the best cover if he gets beaten, but what about Samuel vs. Cristiano? :smirk:

kps also has a point re: Scholes. Davids is much better support for Messi vs. Cole-Kohler than Scholes for Ronaldo vs. Irwin-Samuel.

I'm leaning towards kps on the right flank threat comparisons.

Fergus' son said:
I agree, but I think mine is full of hard workers and grafters and great passers in Scholes and Bastian (Messi will contribute too) whereas Riquelme for the opposition is the closest you get to a 'luxury player' in this game (probably in this draft) and you can't envisage him getting stuck into a monumental battle like this, I can't anyway. On the other hand how many battling and dig deep performances have my trio got between them? Loads I say.
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You do have more muscle/graft, as I pointed out earlier. The issue is Makelele on the ball contributes as much as Riquelme off the ball, so I see those two cancelling each other out. If you had a Guardiola I could see him dominating Riquelme AND contributing on the ball, but it's Makelele. You have too good a DM for what shackling Riquelme requires, but not much else going there.

That takes me on to assessing the pairs and Davids-Redondo is more solid, powerful and almost as creative as Scholes-Schweinsteiger. I reckon you would be better off with his pair than yours actually, as Davids brings defensive muscle and dynamism where it is most needed.
 
antohan said:
When Messi was a right winger it was Ronaldo getting the Ballon d'Or.
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Just going to point out that this is inaccurate. Ronaldo won the Balon dor off the back of the 07/08 season (Messi was still very young at that time, 18 I believe), the following season Messi won it, playing off the RW. He also got world soccer player of the year, the onze dor, Uefa club footballer of the year, Champions league top scorer, champions league forward of the year and la Liga player of the year.
 
antohan said:
Based on that logic we should give you the trophy now. Which left back out there is better suited to dealing with Messi than Cole? Defensively he has to be the best in the draft by some distance. I agree Kohler is not the best cover if he gets beaten, but what about Samuel vs. Cristiano? :smirk:

kps also has a point re: Scholes. Davids is much better support for Messi vs. Cole-Kohler than Scholes for Ronaldo vs. Irwin-Samuel.

I'm leaning towards kps on the right flank threat comparisons.



You do have more muscle/graft, as I pointed out earlier. The issue is Makelele on the ball contributes as much as Riquelme off the ball, so I see those two cancelling each other out. If you had a Guardiola I could see him dominating Riquelme AND contributing on the ball, but it's Makelele. You have too good a DM for what shackling Riquelme requires, but not much else going there.

That takes me on to assessing the pairs and Davids-Redondo is more solid, powerful and almost as creative as Scholes-Schweinsteiger. I reckon you would be better off with his pair than yours actually, as Davids brings defensive muscle and dynamism where it is most needed.
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Maybe Maldini? You're right though, he's one of the goats so its pretty difficult to stop him for a whole game in his peak form. Just one of those things, and a huge advantage for me having the best player in the draft.
 
Fair point, it was Eto'o as the striker in the 2008-09 season. Point still stands that Messi doesn't shit on Ronaldo as a right winger, you indicated Messi>>>Cristiano, which the last few years support strongly, but as right wingers it is questionable.

PS: Maldini, of course... I thought about the other LBs and forgot about him as he is being played as a left-sided CB. So yeah, your point then is to stop Messi you need Cole AND Maldini as the LCB, right? ;)
 
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