Really - why did so many of you think Mourinho was better than LVG?

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Speak said:
Terrible idea.
Firstly - None of the threads on this site have any bearing on anything that happens in football. Someone making a negative thread doesn't have any impact on United's (or any team's) performance. And someone making a positive thread doesn't have any impact on United's (or any team's) performance.

So what makes this thread (for example) any worse than some 'The tide is turning' thread?
People would just be disliking threads they disagree with.

If you read a title/opening post and you don't like it, then close the thread and don't re-open it. Or is the idea of this forum for everyone to be 100% on the same wave-length and to be making the same threads each re-worded in 10 different ways?
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It was only an idea. The idea was if more people wanted it shut rather than a moderator shutting it because they dont like it then we would have a say in it.
Ralph1386 said:
Bringing Fellaini on was something he did wrong today, wouldn't you agree?
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Yes. Why he ever gets played is beyond me. He didnt work under VG and its not working now. Hoofball is not what we need.
 
Andersons Dietion said:
I wouldn't say I'm a VG fan boy, he wasn't my choice to be manager but I knew what we were getting, and I take more umberance to the lack of knowledge of others and the rubbish they make up, I understand it's all opinions, mines is an opinion as well but some of them are so far off the mark it's laughable.

Also if we beleieve everything we read then there is another story that United dithered on the price as they didn't want to pay that much then Bayern simply out bid them as they agreed the fee straight away, also all the meetings Woodward had with the Benficas president in Manchester and London, so where is the truth.
He didn't block anything he didn't have the power to do that, if Woodward could make it happen then he would have, he doesn't answer to LVG.
However there is a story Woodward was keen to get the job done in January, but when you consider Sanches had only been playing for 2 months at that level you could see why LVG would slow that then.

This idea you've just put forward tho of him blocking it as he didn't want United to benefit from his signing is one of those laughable comments I'm sorry, as if you knew anything of LVG's history you'd know one of the things he regards most of his time at clubs is how he left them with a base to work from wilst unearthing gems.
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Well I remember reading Sanches agent saying Renato was keen Woodward was keen but VG dithered too long and Bayern just came in with the fee. Sanches probably thought then why should I go to Utd when he really doesnt rate me but Bayern do.
 
I for one can't say that with a straight face, league position is worse, football is supposedly better but we were beating a lot of big teams under Van Gaal and all we're doing right now is drawing vs everyone.

'The football is better than before' argument is laughable. Sure we didn't sack Van Gaal and hire Mourinho to play amazing football he was hired to deliver silverware and bring us back into the Champions League.

Best to focus on the League Cup/FA Cup and Europa League now!
 
It's early.

But results wise we are worse

Performance wise we are better.

There are a lot of plus/minus points for both managers.
 
montpelier said:
Team is playing better & more progressively. We aint getting many breaks.

We rarely played any fluent footy under LVG, just little patches of it. LVG was quite lucky though.

As it runs, atm.
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We should have had 2 reds today.
 
So we were winning more games under LVG - but who would prefer to watch those games, compared to the games of this season?

It's frustrating, but we're not playing badly, so be patient!
 
Livvie said:
So we were winning more games under LVG - but who would prefer to watch those games, compared to the games of this season?

It's frustrating, but we're not playing badly, so be patient!
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I am reading the same since the bad start with LVG. We are getting there, we are getting there etc. but we never got results we needed. I am not confident this will change soon.
 
Jerch said:
I am reading the same since the bad start with LVG. We are getting there, we are getting there etc. but we never got results we needed. I am not confident this will change soon.
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But you can't argue with the performances...infinitely better. Well maybe not infinitely, but there's definitely a passion there that there hasn't been under LVG or Moyes.
 
Livvie said:
But you can't argue with the performances...infinitely better.
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I was never a fan who demanded attacking football etc. but I always demanded results. Often I was more happy with a bad display and 1:0 win than gread display and 4:0 win because those 1:0 wins is where the league is won.

And when you look from my perspective the performances last season were better because we had more points, simple as that.
 
Jerch said:
I was never a fan who demanded attacking football etc. but I always demanded results. Often I was more happy with a bad display and 1:0 win than gread display and 4:0 win because those 1:0 wins is where the league is won.

And when you look from my perspective the performances last season were better because we had more points, simple as that.
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Fair enough. The performances have always been more important to me. I'd rather be entertained than win trophies. Obviously doing both is the best result.
 
Better attacking performances, but the performance includes everything. We are worse at defending under Mourinho so far. LvG's high-line was very effective, and we were usually very compact and difficult to play through the lines. I definitely like that we are creating more chances, but it's pointless if we can't put these chances away and be out of sight, or if we can't defend a lead and keep inviting equalisers.

Under LvG, the defending was good, but we couldn't attack. Under Mourinho, the attacking is better, but defending is ropey. IMO we have just swung from one side to the other, rather than balancing the two.
 
Jerch said:
I was never a fan who demanded attacking football etc. but I always demanded results. Often I was more happy with a bad display and 1:0 win than gread display and 4:0 win because those 1:0 wins is where the league is won.

And when you look from my perspective the performances last season were better because we had more points, simple as that.
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Jesus Christ. What madness is this?

You do realise that 4 nil win literally does more to help you win the league than a one nil win?
 
Livvie said:
So we were winning more games under LVG - but who would prefer to watch those games, compared to the games of this season?

It's frustrating, but we're not playing badly, so be patient!
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Be patient? have we not been saying that for 4 years now? Jose was brought in on a massive contract to do one thing, get us back into the champions league. I'm all for giving chances and I'm happy to give him until December but I think the patient card is running very thin. it's not even half way through the season and we are already 9 points off 4th place and 6 points off 4th! as each game goes by, we are running out of time.

The reason we drew today was very simple, we played with no desire and Jose messed up big time with his subs. we spent the last 25 minutes trying to wind down the clock, something we saw under gaal. even before that we never really had any clear cut chances just hopeful and wishful play.

I really think Jose has lost the plot ... his tactics are so predictable and his ego is ridiculous. Fellaini on bench, bastian should of been there and brought on to hold the game. His experience was missed!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Jesus Christ. What madness is this?

You do realise that 4 nil win literally does more to help you win the league than a one nil win?
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I think what he is trying to say is when u play bad and win 1 0 it is a sign of champions. champions grind out that win just as Fergie did over and over again.
 
We've had three seasons of mis-management. I hope Mourinho will learn from his mistakes because we'll be a laughing stock if we sack him after one season. The performances have given me optimism that we'll get there. I would be embarrassed if we sacked him.
 
ryansgirl said:
Yes, I am saying that some of us 'told you so'. That Louis Van Gaal would bring success in the longer term despite his flaws.

One of the reasons was his extensive experience in pressure cooker clubs. Another was his amazing knowledge of football and his commitment to total football. And he has never been a weak manager and has shown the same quality of Sir Alex - managers have to be strong than the players.

LVG was never going to be given Sir Alex's long-term generous stretch of time by footballing standards to re-build the Manchester United team - that was from a bygone era and the United administration should forever be thanked for sticking by the younger Alex Ferguson when he was struggling to implement a new style and mentality.

However, it was disgraceful the way he LVG was dumped as if he were just any manager who couldn't produce instant results in a middle table club that will never win anything because of the sense of entitlement of the players and administration who set such high standards for managers yet don't live up to them.

Some of us stated long before Mourinho came to Old Trafford that he was not the right person for United. Temperamentally. In terms of footballing style. He's had a very good career - yes. But he should not have been brought in to replace Louis Van Gaal so soon even if some of you thought it was a great idea.

United will not regain its glory days under Mourinho - is it sinking in now or do some of you still want to justify getting rid of the man who would have put United back on the right track?
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The major issue with what you are saying is that LVG had a 3 year deal and is 64/65. If he was a young manager, you'd want to see him given the chance to build something but the truth is, despite some of the positives around developing a philosophy and blooding in youngsters, we were regressing and we were desperately dull to watch. Things haven't gone as expected so far under Mourinho but he's not even had half a season yet and given the failures of Moyes and LVG, we now have a team compromised of players bought by 4 different managers. I think the football we are playing is quite clearly much better than the last 3 seasons, it's just extremely frustrating that we are not putting away our chances or seeing out games to collect the wins that our performances merit. Have some faith, it will come good. Mourinho was not necessarily the manager I wanted but I do think he can take this club forward.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Jesus Christ. What madness is this?

You do realise that 4 nil win literally does more to help you win the league than a one nil win?
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As someone else already said. It is not that I prefer 1:0 to 4:0 but I am more happy when we win 1:0 a game we should lose or draw then when we dominate a team and win 4:0. Ofcourse I would love that we will dominate every game but no club in the world do that so you need to learn to grind result in games you are not at you best.
 
The team definitely look more together under Mourinho and I'm certain the players prefer his style than Van Gaals. We're not getting the results and everyone is mad at mourinho so this thread will be heated but I am confident that we will be better off sticking with Mourinho. He is proven and he has good contacts in football which will allow us to sign desirable players.
One thing that annoys me about Mourinho is the following and I hope that it's complete nonsense on my behalf - I feel like he trys to go against the grain to get in the headlines. For example some of his substitutions or team selections are quite unpredictable. If they pay off it makes him look like a genius which is what he craves.
 
After some calm reflection, these are my thoughts:

I was a strong supporter of bringing Mourinho here, and thought and still think he's miles ahead of the last two managers we've had.

I have to be honest and give credit to the man, because he's changed the way we play for the better and he did it much quicker than I thought he would, and it looks like it's somewhat sustainable. I was very skeptical that he would be able to do this after the three losses in a row we had in September, and thought he was relying on individual brilliance way too much, and I couldn't see a clear pattern of play. I'm glad to eat some humble pie because I'm honestly a dark and pessimistic fecker but the guy deserves massive credit for that because it was a hugely important thing for me to see. That's a very good sign of a good manager.

On the other hand, some of his decisions lead me to believe that he hasn't adapted to modern football and the way the game has changed as much as he should have, and is still somewhat living in 2005. I do expect to see more innovation from him.

Another negative are the shite league results. We can talk about finishing and strikers' form all we want, but at the end it's his responsibility to do something about it. The results look particularly bad when you compare it with other managers who are completely new to the league (unlike Jose) and are doing much better. I can't for the life of me find an excuse to make myself feel better about that. It's damning.

I've been disappointed with our frail mentality and defensive composure when in a winning position. We concede too many goals from a point of advantage and too many late goals. That's the exact opposite of a hallmark Mourinho team.

All in all, I've said this before and I stick to it: if we win the Europa League and finish 17th, I'll be fine with that. If we win both domestic cups and finish mid-table, that would also be fine with me. If we don't win either the League Cup, FA Cup, or Europa League, he needs to get top 4. Which he won't, so he should put a lot of his effort into the cups because I don't think there's much at all to salvage from this league campaign. Those are my personal minimum requirements for this season. If he fails, and the style of play continues to be much more pleasing on the eye, and I start to see some semblance of a strong mental spine to this team, then I would be content to give him another season. It'll be very difficult for me to call for his head this season.

My rating of him so far, being extremely generous, would be 6/10.
 
Jerch said:
As someone else already said. It is not that I prefer 1:0 to 4:0 but I am more happy when we win 1:0 a game we should lose or draw then when we dominate a team and win 4:0. Ofcourse I would love that we will dominate every game but no club in the world do that so you need to learn to grind result in games you are not at you best.
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The bit in bold is key. On that basis, I agree. But over the course of the season you'd hope that's a relatively rare occurrence.
 
I get the feeling that this thread will be bumped after every poor result, as a sort of 'I told you so'.

Give Jose the same time LvG had, and then we can accurately say whether it was the right or wrong decision. Until then this thread is pointless.
 
The ultimate guide to JM's tenure will be what he does in the January transfer window to a lesser extent but overall in the next off season transfer period to fix this. He would more than likely know who he does need & doesn't need & hopefully is preparing for changes.
 
The difference between LvG and JM are that LVG saw the weaknesses of our squad and based his tactic on those. The squad of last season didn't contain many world class players, so he made a strong unit out of our defense and midfield. Our play going forward suffered from that, but the clinicalness of Martial and Rashford was often enough to scrape a 1-0 victory. JM tries to play his regular tactic that he also used at RM and Chelsea, however since he had many world class defenders there and not so much here, we drop a lot of points. This is also the reason that Smalling at times looked like a world beater last season and not so much this season. Van Gaal understood the reality that we are no longer as good as Barcelona and Real Madrid, and adjusted accordingly. The same way he brought The Netherlands to the semi's of the World Cup, which also wasn't with the best of football (besides the matches against Spain and Brazil).
 
Orange said:
The difference between LvG and JM are that LVG saw the weaknesses of our squad and based his tactic on those. The squad of last season didn't contain many world class players, so he made a strong unit out of our defense and midfield. Our play going forward suffered from that, but the clinicalness of Martial and Rashford was often enough to scrape a 1-0 victory. JM tries to play his regular tactic that he also used at RM and Chelsea, however since he had many world class defenders there and not so much here, we drop a lot of points. This is also the reason that Smalling at times looked like a world beater last season and not so much this season. Van Gaal understood the reality that we are no longer as good as Barcelona and Real Madrid, and adjusted accordingly. The same way he brought The Netherlands to the semi's of the World Cup, which also wasn't with the best of football (besides the matches against Spain and Brazil).
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If this was true then De Gea wouldn't have been pulling out worldies every other game and winning player of the year. LVGs side had 55% avg possession last year vs 55% this season so far. So we are keeping the ball juwt as well whist creating at a much higher rate.
 
Scholesy said:
Mou is better than LVG, the zombie football was literally torture to watch every week
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Yeah, we're far far better to watch now. Need some luck. Why not shweinsteiger instead of Fellaini? He's blown smoke up the guys arse all week.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Jesus Christ. What madness is this?

You do realise that 4 nil win literally does more to help you win the league than a one nil win?
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....we lost the league on goal difference a few years ago.

A rare occurrence, but still an occurrence.
 
Scholesy said:
We got luck today with first goal as it was a mistake by the other team. Rojo could have been sent off also.
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Yeah, and bar a stupid decision in putting on Fellaini, we win the game. No one moans.
 
On topic.

No doubt we are better to watch right now. That should damn well be the case given the money spent this summer and the players we've brought in.

The results, however, are nothing less than shocking. There's only so many times we can blame lady luck. Mourinho should come under some scrutiny for the results. I'm not saying the guy should come under threat at all, we need stability now more than ever. When (i hope it's an eventuality) Mourinho gets out this rut he'll be one of the best managers around. In the time being, he needs to reflect on his own systems and choices.

Maybe to hold a match we bring on someone like Schweinsteiger? Rather than the numpty Felllaini. Ayy he's not had the minutes but ffs he's a much better footballer and was a key part in our strong defensive record early last season.

Or maybe Blind and Mata. Two neat players who are good at keeping possession. This would prevent everton applying pressure (we don't have to worry about high crosses into the box if Everton don't have the possession). It'd also allow us to go for a second whilst retaining the ball. Bringing off Mkhi and Martial was silly given their defensive contribution.

Theres been plenty of occasions this season where we NEEDED to go for the second to put the game to rest. Instead on come the defensive subs (often Mata comes off) and we concede. For me, Mourinho needs to hold his hands up for these decisions.
 
resultswise both coaches are the same. But one heartening thing is that the team has sufficient backup players.
eg..mata..blind..rojo..jones..rashford..herrera..etc
All we need is 3-4 very good players.

Also possible departures..fellaini...Young..depay..bastian Sch..
 
NYAS said:
After some calm reflection, these are my thoughts:

I was a strong supporter of bringing Mourinho here, and thought and still think he's miles ahead of the last two managers we've had.

I have to be honest and give credit to the man, because he's changed the way we play for the better and he did it much quicker than I thought he would, and it looks like it's somewhat sustainable. I was very skeptical that he would be able to do this after the three losses in a row we had in September, and thought he was relying on individual brilliance way too much, and I couldn't see a clear pattern of play. I'm glad to eat some humble pie because I'm honestly a dark and pessimistic fecker but the guy deserves massive credit for that because it was a hugely important thing for me to see. That's a very good sign of a good manager.

On the other hand, some of his decisions lead me to believe that he hasn't adapted to modern football and the way the game has changed as much as he should have, and is still somewhat living in 2005. I do expect to see more innovation from him.

Another negative are the shite league results. We can talk about finishing and strikers' form all we want, but at the end it's his responsibility to do something about it. The results look particularly bad when you compare it with other managers who are completely new to the league (unlike Jose) and are doing much better. I can't for the life of me find an excuse to make myself feel better about that. It's damning.

I've been disappointed with our frail mentality and defensive composure when in a winning position. We concede too many goals from a point of advantage and too many late goals. That's the exact opposite of a hallmark Mourinho team.

All in all, I've said this before and I stick to it: if we win the Europa League and finish 17th, I'll be fine with that. If we win both domestic cups and finish mid-table, that would also be fine with me. If we don't win either the League Cup, FA Cup, or Europa League, he needs to get top 4. Which he won't, so he should put a lot of his effort into the cups because I don't think there's much at all to salvage from this league campaign. Those are my personal minimum requirements for this season. If he fails, and the style of play continues to be much more pleasing on the eye, and I start to see some semblance of a strong mental spine to this team, then I would be content to give him another season. It'll be very difficult for me to call for his head this season.

My rating of him so far, being extremely generous, would be 6/10.
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:wenger:
 
wolvored said:
Thanks. Perhaps every thread should have a rate me button like when you can put your ratings on the team after a match. Just 2 answers like and dislike. If after lets say 50 votes its disliked more than liked its locked.
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Why feed trolls with some clear issues regarding opinions they don't like? May I remind you and the troll you answered that it is not your own personal forum.
The redcafe hs been areound longer than than you or others here who seem to think that it's fine to call for censorship of opinions they don't like.
In the nicest way possible - please grow up. Or make your own forum in a safe space somewhere on the net where you don't actually have to debate others' opinions.
There is nothing wrong with the opinions most people have expressed and there is nothing wrong with refusing to agree with trolls who haven't been around on the caf so long.
Even the snipe at me about some pages back for not posting so much says a lot about such attitudes. I don't apologise for having a life off the internet and I don't apologise for starting a thread that clearly resonates given the number of views and replies.
 
Ralph1386 said:
To answer the OP simply: many of us thought and still think Mourinho is better than LVG because he is PL-proven (3 PL titles). LVG'S style simply did not work in the PL.
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That's fair enough. I still wasn't persuaded about Mourinho's viability in the near future after the Everton game. The lads just don't look organised enough to convert chances in my opinion. Yes, they are playing more interesting looking football but unless it gets them somewhere, an attractive United team that doesn't win the league or prestigious European silverware doesn't mean much given the club's status and its huge financial advantages.
I know there is re-building going on but unless Mourinho can duplicate LVG's silverware in the second season or get the club high enough in the league table I will keep the opinon that LVG would have been better in the longer run.
 
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