RAWK Goes Into Meltdown 2016-17 Edition

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Powderfinger said:
Ehhh, that seems like a stretch.

IMO, Liverpool clearly plays best with three CMs and three attackers. That Wijnaldum was hurt and Lallana was (I assume) only fit for the bench, and therefore they played more of a 4-2-3-1 with two holders than an aggressive 4-3-3 with two high energy pressing 8s, was a big factor in their struggles. Once Lallana came on and Sturridge off, they dominated the match. They lacked quality in the last 30 minutes, which was exacerbated because both Coutinho and Firmino seemed totally out of gas by the end, but tactically they were fine. In sum, the idea that Jose has found some magic formula for stopping them doesn't hold water given that Liverpool themselves didn't play their preferred setup and tactics for the first hour.
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So what he said then, they had no plan B.
 
I like the way Jose was happy to divulge his tactics and reasoning after the game. Great mind games. Will give plenty of PL managers a blueprint for how to play against the counterpress with ease.

Klopp best start work on a plan B I reckon.
 
Marcelinho87 said:
So what he said then, they had no plan B.
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Thats not the problem so much as the lack of depth in key areas, with Lallana and Gini out we lost there key attributes in the middle of the park and Can although a decent midfielder in his own right doesnt replace those, thats why Dahoud appears to be a key target for us, similar to Mane if we lost him we would have nobody to replace what he brings. Our MF was slow and pedestrian for the most part and Hendo looked poor without Adam and Gini to mask his defeciencies, I knew we would struggle to score unless we somehow got an early goal because unless we have our fully fit starting XI like we had against other teams that sat deep we will struggle to break them down.

Anyways from now till christmas we have a run of winnable games till the Merseyside derby, how we do in those will define this season, we've had a good start but it will mean nothing if we dont capitalise on this run of fixtures.
 
Liver_bird said:
Thats not the problem so much as the lack of depth in key areas, with Lallana and Gini out we lost there key attributes in the middle of the park and Can although a decent midfielder in his own right doesnt replace those, thats why Dahoud appears to be a key target for us, similar to Mane if we lost him we would have nobody to replace what he brings. Our MF was slow and pedestrian for the most part and Hendo looked poor without Adam and Gini to mask his defeciencies, I knew we would struggle to score unless we somehow got an early goal because unless we have our fully fit starting XI like we had against other teams that sat deep we will struggle to break them down.

Anyways from now till christmas we have a run of winnable games till the Merseyside derby, how we do in those will define this season, we've had a good start but it will mean nothing if we dont capitalise on this run of fixtures.
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I'm not sure where this notion that United sat deep for 90 mins comes from. United defended much higher than Liverpool and the heat map not only show's this but shows how much time Liverpool spent in their own half.

The tactic was to allow you possession and play higher up the pitch. You had 65 percent possession and created 2 chances. We were doing more under LvG than that. .
 
TheReligion said:
I'm not sure where this notion that United sat deep for 90 mins comes from. United defended much higher than Liverpool and the heat map not only show's this but shows how much time Liverpool spent in their own half.

The tactic was to allow you possession and play higher up the pitch. You had 65 percent possession and created 2 chances. We were doing more under LvG than that. .
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That's all well and good but my eyes don't lie. You were boring and negative.
 
TheReligion said:
I'm not sure where this notion that United sat deep for 90 mins comes from. United defended much higher than Liverpool and the heat map not only show's this but shows how much time Liverpool spent in their own half.

The tactic was to allow you possession and play higher up the pitch. You had 65 percent possession and created 2 chances. We were doing more under LvG than that. .
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You're right you pressed very well for 25mins or so and our new MF setup struggled to cope with being pressed so much especially Hendo and Can who turn like a tank. I still maintain had we had Gini and Lallana we would have won, but the knock on effect of removing there attrubutes and not being able to replace them meant we was ponderous and slow in possesion. The only silver lining is we didnt get sucker punched and got our first clean sheet in yonks.
 
Liver_bird said:
You're right you pressed very well for 25mins or so and our new MF setup struggled to cope with being pressed so much especially Hendo and Can who turn like a tank. I still maintain had we had Gini and Lallana we would have won, but the knock on effect of removing there attrubutes and not being able to replace them meant we was ponderous and slow in possesion. The only silver lining is we didnt get sucker punched and got our first clean sheet in yonks.
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I'm not sure you'd have got anything had you played another 90 minutes last night.

United would have had more going forward with Martial and Mkhitaryan mind.
 
Liver_bird said:
You're right you pressed very well for 25mins or so and our new MF setup struggled to cope with being pressed so much especially Hendo and Can who turn like a tank. I still maintain had we had Gini and Lallana we would have won, but the knock on effect of removing there attrubutes and not being able to replace them meant we was ponderous and slow in possesion. The only silver lining is we didnt get sucker punched and got our first clean sheet in yonks.
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There seems to be a lot of focus on the fact that Liverpool had players out and complete ignorance of the fact United's quickest attacker wasn't available. Which would've been quite useful for a counter attack.
 
TheReligion said:
Being totally honest I've never felt as comfortable at Anfield. You had the ball but did little with it. If we had a little bit more quality further up the pitch we could have easily nicked the three points.
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Thas fair enough, I believe we would have played a lot better and won with our usual MF, our problem is we dont have the depth yet to replace there attributes. But we'll see at the end of the season ultimately as to how big a point this was for either side.
 
acnumber9 said:
There seems to be a lot of focus on the fact that Liverpool had players out and complete ignorance of the fact United's quickest attacker wasn't available. Which would've been quite useful for a counter attack.
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True, but if you guys having Martial meant we would have Gini and Lallana I'd happily take that. I said before the game that UTD pressing us and hitting us with pace out wide in Martial and Rashford on the counter would be the best way for you to play, and perhaps with Martial you might have carried more of a threat on the counter.
 
Liver_bird said:
You're right you pressed very well for 25mins or so and our new MF setup struggled to cope with being pressed so much especially Hendo and Can who turn like a tank. I still maintain had we had Gini and Lallana we would have won, but the knock on effect of removing there attrubutes and not being able to replace them meant we was ponderous and slow in possesion. The only silver lining is we didnt get sucker punched and got our first clean sheet in yonks.
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The flip side being that you kept your first clean sheet of the season by playing a more conservative midfield. Had they played you may have scored, on the flip side you may have conceded a few.
 
finneh said:
The flip side being that you kept your first clean sheet of the season by playing a more conservative midfield. Had they played you may have scored, on the flip side you may have conceded a few.
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True, but I'd have hedged our bets on that method of play to win. But its all moot now, injuries or no injuries the game is done, and how both sides do between now and this fixture in January will tell us what we need to know.
 
Liver_bird said:
Thas fair enough, I believe we would have played a lot better and won with our usual MF, our problem is we dont have the depth yet to replace there attributes. But we'll see at the end of the season ultimately as to how big a point this was for either side.
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You're entitled to your opinion of couse but if your season depends on Wijnaldum and Lallana then you've an awful lot to worry about.
 
Funny how the Scousers are all banging on about the absence of Wijnaldum and Lallana and how they would of easily changed the outcome.
Just think if we had a fit and in form Luke Shaw, Martial and Mkhitaryan in the starting 11.
 
Rob67 said:
Funny how the Scousers are all banging on about the absence of Wijnaldum and Lallana and how they would of easily changed the outcome.
Just think if we had a fit and in form Luke Shaw, Martial and Mkhitaryan in the starting 11.
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I almost forgot about Shaw. Blind has been doing so well at LB. Wow we will have 2 fantastic LB's hopefully we can find another role for Blind if Shaw takes over the LB spot
 
'He (Donald Trump) is the Jose Mourinho of politics, isn't he?

'Very apt comparison. Joe-zay might be slightly less unbalanced, and definitely less worrisome in the grand scheme of things, but Mourinho, Donald Trump and Lord Voldemort; 3 cats with a ton in common.'
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They seem a bit worried...:lol:
 
Trikie said:
So basically you're like a typical playground bully. You hide when you come up against the big boys and flex your muscle against the smaller weaker ones. Is that right?
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We're 8 games into a season with a new manager after 3 years with terrible ones, and you're concluding that after one game against us that you didn't like?

Anyway, it's better than fecking up against all the weakers clubs then game raising against the big ones, like you've done for how many years?
 
VeevaVee said:
We're 8 games into a season with a new manager after 3 years with terrible ones, and you're concluding that after one game against us that you didn't like?

Anyway, it's better than fecking up against all the weakers clubs then game raising against the big ones, like you've done for how many years?
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Getting on for 27.
 
I want the Chelsea game to be a bloodfest.

Loads of injuries, loads of fighting, loads of red cards. I hope it's a shitstorm of a game, with someone chinning or gauging the eyes of the joyless fecker

I want the FA to throw the book at them, while he whines about it being someone else's fault.
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I've just realised that Mourinho is the football equivalent of Donald Drumpf. A crazy, conspiracy theorising, siege-mentality inducing, negative spin doctor that is blessed with a media that sticks on his every word and a fan base that laps that shite up.
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Imagine Roy Hodgson storming back into a post match press conference to contest the possession figures after he had apparently won the battle.

I mean maybe they do turn it around. Maybe they do win five in a row. Maybe we have egg on our faces later in the season for those of us who have seen nothing but unbridled United success for our entire adult (and for me child) lives, it's a predictable future happening. Having said that I'm actually fairly hopeful that they won't challenge for the league.

But that action. Storming back into a post match press conference to say that. That is not the act of someone happy with the result or confident in his ability or his teams performance is it? If you win 6-0 with 25 percent of possession you aren't making a show of yourself to contest the numbers are you?

"But the BBC have published it"

"OUR guy says different".

It's weird as feck. I guess at least to be fair to him shows that he has more to prove and isn't happy but then didn't he proclaim we were cautious and he got what he wanted?

For all the talk of Rafa cracking up in 08/09, with Chelsea last season and with him this I do wonder whether it is indeed the Manchester United manager losing his grip on reality. Is he wondering about losing his own special powers?

I mean sure, come to Anfield for a draw and take it. But would the Man United fans, aside from defending their club and their manager have accepted that having spent the money they have and after the party online that took place after they signed Pogba? I'm not so sure...

When they replaced Ferguson did Tonysleft, Ste Armstrong, Cantona and Busby want someone who would come in and take this league out? Someone like Klopp, who can take his team and go to City and batter them, go to Arsenal and score 4, beat Chelsea twice away comfortably or did they want a manager who would go to Anfield and fold for a point? I understand the intrinsic backing of people that others don't like because they are yours. I've done the same with Downing, Lucas, Henderson and Rafa to name but 4: some come good, some always are but aren't recognised and then some like Stewart don't: but I guess you feel a need to back them as what's the alternative?

That's where they are now. Lots of their fans hated Mourinho and laughed at him at Chelsea last season. Sang horrible shit about him and never wanted him till they got him but now he is there they need to get behind him and believe in him. Football is funny like that sometimes. We can all be hypocrites, myself included.

I guess like we have many times over the years, they have reached a position where there isn't a consensus amongst the fans. There is arguing amongst them over the right course of direction. That's great because it means they've become and still are everything they derided us for while they were riding on the up and up, impatient, not all happy and unsure. If they don't win it this season then the counter ticks over to 4 without a league title. Far lower than us of course and perhaps never as high as 27 years but disconcerting for them all the same and not something anyone 30 or below is used to. Welcome to the post Ferguson era lads.

Remains to be seen what happens from now on. They'll always have cash to invest and aside from us there are some other great teams in this league. That's why even if we are shite or we don't win the league it's just great to see them suffering how we have. Enjoy them apples.

Because I tell you where there is a consensus. At Anfield and at Melwood. Amongst the players, the manager, the staff and amongst the fans. For the first time since perhaps even Rafa everyone is together. And as Klopp says himself that is so important. Bring on the next league games.

Gonna be a box office season this like.
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The reds are coming up the hill, Mr Mourinho. And I'm afraid there's nothing you can do about it.
 
Their tactics were a huge compliment and shows what Klopp's done here - our reputation is causing opponents sleepless nights.

What Monday indicates is that United have slipped to a level we haven't seen in 26 years. Not necessarily in terms of players or performance but in terms of identity and self-perception. Their sense of entitlement has been eroded; it's been eaten away. We now find ourselves in a situation where United players, manager and fans regard a shutout at Anfield as a success - this against the backdrop of the most wilfully craven performance by any United side in living memory. Yet they were satisfied because it stopped US.

How the tide has turned and what a compliment
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