Rate the post SAF managers

Is the Europa League that important to you? I can see holding the FA cup quite high because the best teams are actually in it, but the Europa League, nah. It is essentially a top 4 trophy since it gives you CL.
With the context of the question, yes. It is the best trophy we have won since SAF surely?

We have only won Europa (Jose), FA cup x 2 (LVG/ETH), League Cup x 2 (Jose/ETH)
What is there to WUM about, he had 2.5 seasons where he was genuinely good for us and we should have moved on in summer 2021 before it collapsed. In terms of rebuilding and getting us performing at a relatively high level for the longest period of time, he easily did that for us more than others. Nobody else had 2 full good seasons

What did he rebuild? He enabled the awful culture we see still permeating the dressing room today, he protected the players and mollycoddled them after they had turned on Mou and signed an incredible amount of over the hill names, most of whom have caused issues for the club and some still are. He basically had 2 decent domestic campaigns, was a serial loser in late stage knock out games and had us playing basic counter attacking football (which by the way he admitted he wasn't even coaching, McKenna and Carrick were). The highlight from his tenure was us getting battered from pillar to post by PSG but shithousing a win in a R16 game, though now I think of that it as worth it for the Di Maria tears.
 
I know the appreciation for the Mickey Mouse cups has grown multi-folds amongst the fans of the club from the time we used to make fun of Liverpool for winning the Mickey mouse trebles to this day, but for me their value is always as a complement to the big trophies or on the way to the big trophies
Agreed
I was.dancing after Amads winner against Liverpool. I enjoyed beating City in the final.
But in the end, for a club of our size, with the money we throw at it, these domestic cups are nothing but a complement in the grander scheme of things.
The league is where our strength as a club is measured. If you finish 8, that is how good you are, a domestic cup does not change the perception much. If anything.
 
LVG and Mourinho must have caused some major PTSD to some of our fans, to the point they found our football under Ole enjoyable :lol:
Mourinho is Mourinho, and LvG's United was boredom impersonated. If there was ever an advertisement on why football is very boring, it should be full of United's clips under LvG.

I think 'Ole at the wheel' interim period and the end of the following season (so after covid) were fairly enjoyable, the former cause it looked good after Mourinho's toxicity, the later cause we actually were playing fairly well. Then on the next season, we finished higher in the table but played worse and of course, in his final season, it was atrocious.
 
I was thinking more the rest of Ole's time where he was regularly rotating good periods and bad periods, but yes that is true. Right at the end for his last two months or so it went to complete shit.
I think people forget that about Ole's reign. There were several periods where you thought 'he's getting sacked, this just can't go on, it's abysmal', and he fought his way out of it which is a credit to him.
 
I have 0 clue how people are rating Ten hag so high in some of these
Well, he did provide our best moment of the post SAF era in the FA cup final and won two trophies. You can argue he got an 'easy' ride to the finals but he still had to beat Newcastle, Liverpool, and City. I'd argue the City game was no fluke either, we deserved that win.

When the dust settles every manager we've had since SAF will be deemed a failure for not bringing the club back to where it should be, but winning trophies does count for something.
 
I think people forget that about Ole's reign. There were several periods where you thought 'he's getting sacked, this just can't go on, it's abysmal', and he fought his way out of it which is a credit to him.
Indeed. Which was still better than 'he's getting sacked, this just can't go on, it's abysmal' we had under EtH, only for him to find a way around it by being even worse. And this going for 18 months.
 
Jose probably ranks top by virtue of managing to both win trophies and finish 2nd, albeit things were getting dire by the end of that second season.

When things were looking good under Ole it was maybe the most positive/exciting the club had felt since the Fergie years but the lows were low and tactically he was still rubbish much of the time.

Slim pickings between most of them really.
 
With the context of the question, yes. It is the best trophy we have won since SAF surely?

We have only won Europa (Jose), FA cup x 2 (LVG/ETH), League Cup x 2 (Jose/ETH)
I'd rate Europa and FA Cup about the same level. Second-tier competitions in that both a long way below the PL and CL, while being much better than the League Cup.
 
Indeed. Which was still better than 'he's getting sacked, this just can't go on, it's abysmal' we had under EtH, only for him to find a way around it by being even worse. And this going for 18 months.
Actually it has been pretty similar if you think about it. Ole just had more changes to good periods of form which revived him whereas EtH had trophies and the whole business of the takeover/injuries last season which gained him some reprieve. Both ultimately just delayed the inevitable.
 
Mourinho
LVG
<gap>
Ole
<huge gap>
ETH
Moyes

At the time LVG was dull but we were never embarassingly bad only boring. ETH made us an international lauighg stock and Moyes managed to torpedo his entire United career with some shocking early decisions.
 
Well, he did provide our best moment of the post SAF era in the FA cup final and won two trophies. You can argue he got an 'easy' ride to the finals but he still had to beat Newcastle, Liverpool, and City. I'd argue the City game was no fluke either, we deserved that win.

When the dust settles every manager we've had since SAF will be deemed a failure for not bringing the club back to where it should be, but winning trophies does count for something.
feck no, winning Europa was by far a better moment and also one that signified real potential progress. The only thing that made the FA cup great was beating City but we were still a shit show of a club with a large contingency of people praying we’d sack him after.

I think people factor luck way too much into these lists. If De Gea stops a single pen against Villarreal then Ole rockets up the standings. Likewise Ten Hag would have been sacked in June if a Coventry player wasn’t offsides by a nose hair when they outplayed us to end that game.
 
feck no, winning Europa was by far a better moment and also one that signified real potential progress. The only thing that made the FA cup great was beating City but we were still a shit show of a club with a large contingency of people praying we’d sack him after.

I think people factor luck way too much into these lists. If De Gea stops a single pen against Villarreal then Ole rockets up the standings. Likewise Ten Hag would have been sacked in June if a Coventry player wasn’t offsides by a nose hair when they outplayed us to end that game.
Oh come on, Coventry didn't outplay us at all, our players (particularly AwB IIRC) just absolutely lost their heads in the last 15 minutes. As for the Villarreal game, our performance against City in the final was a LOT better than our performance against Villarreal and we actually won it in normal time.
 
4/10 for Moyes is a bit generous. It suggests there were positives, what positives were there?

I'd go for a still generous 1/10.
The Community Shield cup
Knocking Liverpool out of the League Cup
Comeback win against Olympiakos 3-0
Winning against Arsenal even when they were flying and we were falling
Gave Bayern Munich a scare in the Champions League
Signing Juan Mata in the winter (Back then that was as big a player as we have gotten used to signing for many years)
 
The Community Shield cup
Knocking Liverpool out of the League Cup
Comeback win against Olympiakos 3-0
Winning against Arsenal even when they were flying and we were falling
Gave Bayern Munich a scare in the Champions League
Signing Juan Mata in the winter (Back then that was as big a player as we have gotten used to signing for many years)

He destroyed 25+ years of SAF's legacy in the space of 3 months.
 
I'd rate Europa and FA Cup about the same level. Second-tier competitions in that both a long way below the PL and CL, while being much better than the League Cup.
Yeah, I can see the logic there. The reality is it depends on the draw, ETH beating Pool and City to win the FA cup is arguably better than Mou beating Ajax and bunch of random teams like Rostov, Celta and Anderlecht though the Europa is a real grind to win with so many games. Agree it is miles from where we want to be though, at least they got the team over the line.
 
Even though ETH won us 2 cups, somehow I feel that he is the worst manager after being given so much money and time. He can't even implement any style of play at all. His tactics depend on individual brilliance. His 1st season was helped by Rashford purple patch. He was unplayable.
 
It's difficult to rank ETH, his first season was the most i'd enjoyed going to old Trafford since SAF days, but he's also responsible for probably the lowest experience since as well last season. That FA Cup win was also very special.

For me i'd go (only based on permanent managers):

1. Jose - Football was horrific, but you knew that it was going to be. Won a couple of trophies, which isn't to be scoffed at. Had his usual melt down and it all went tits up, as expected in his 3rd year.
2. ETH - Great first season, 2 FA Cup finals winning one, a league cup - Worst season on record in the premier league era was pretty damning though. But trophy wins are days to remember, so ETH gave me more happy memories than any of the others, despite how shit it went.
3. Ole - Would be top if he managed to win a trophy. lack of success means he can't be any higher.
4. LVG - Dreadful football served up, hated watching it. Spent a lot of money for next to nothing to show for it.
5. Moyes - Why did we ever hire him again? completely out of his depth

ETH being so high will irk people, but when I look back on my days following united, i'll always remember being at Wembley when we beat city, the people below him don't really have any of those moments for me.
Have to agree with your assessment of all of them.
 
That's my list too. Mourinho and Ole were relatively decent. For Mourinho, his anger and the club not backing him was the reason the 18/19 season started the way it did. I actually think his big misstep was signing Lindelof. I also think his tenure spoke to the lack of depth we had. I genuinely believe that with better depth, we wouldn't have tailed off so badly in 16/17 and may have performed better overall in 17/18. He deserved to be sacked because his attitude sucked and was not in line with what we are as a club.

Ole should never have been hired, however the understanding was that he was growing with the club and despite having the weakest squad we've had, he managed to still do relatively decently. We had the best spells under him and he provided the most hope. He was the best symbol for the club and you could tell, unlike the other managers we've had, he genuinely had the best interest of the club in mind with his decisions. He didn't have the attacking tactical knowledge needed to get us to break teams down, but he was much better than people's perceptions of him. The issue with him is that as a club, we knew he wasn't good enough. I believe this is why we weren't willing to invest as much with him as with others at various points. Once we did invest, he proved that he wasn't experienced enough for the job.

Moyes was terrible, should never have been hired. Any other club would have sacked him in December that season. However, he did the least amount of damage to the club. He played poor football with good players, but he didn't waste money.

In comparison, LVG did so much damage to us in the transfer market. Almost all of his buys were mediocre and he did a hatchet job in making it happen. He was a representation of the fan's ire towards the players, and why that line of thinking is always disruptive. He started the trend of Man United managers acting like they were begged to take the position. You can't have managers who behave badly, yet expect players to be perfect, and he was proof of that. He willfully threw our 14/15 season away with his ridiculous test tactics to start the season aand completed gutted our squad of talent. Between December 2015 and May 2016, this was the first time I actively stopped caring about United results. Despite all this, he still had the audacity to act surprised when he was sacked. ETH is a living example of what it would have looked like if we hadn't sacked LVG in 2016.

ETH hasn't had as bad a run in the transfer market as LVG, but the level of disillusionment takes the cake. His first season may have rivalled Jose's 2nd season as our best season since SAF. However, despite the cups, the period between August 2023 and October 2024 has to be the worst I've seen from a big club who is still a financial behemoth. No big club would have kept him past November 2023, yet we managed to drag out poor football for a full season + 9 games with no respite. This period had maybe 4 good games. It's by far the worst football since the SAF era and he put us through that. Despite this, his attitude was as bad as Mourinho's. Making arrogant statements week to week, with people making excuses for him. He provided the perfect example to any club about why Manager's should not be backed when results are going poorly. After his tenure, I think the cult of the manager is finished at United and maybe across Europe, just by how bad and deluded he was. This feeling is not because of being in the moment, but every statistic tells us that he's significantly worse than any of his predecessors. He kept breaking records for the wrong reasons, yet was completely unapologetic about it. He exposed our fanbase. I actually think his failure will have a positive lasting impact.
Good post.
 
PL Stats:

Manager​
PL Games​
W​
W%​
D​
D%​
L​
L%​
GF​
GFPG​
GA​
GAPG​
GD​
Pts​
PtsPG​
ETH​
85​
44​
51.76%​
14​
16.47%​
27​
31.76%​
123​
1.45​
112​
1.32​
+11​
146​
1.72​
Ole​
109​
56​
51.38%​
29​
26.61%​
24​
22.02%​
195​
1.79​
126​
1.16​
+69​
197​
1.81​
Jose​
93​
50​
53.76%​
26​
27.96%​
17​
18.28%​
151​
1.62​
86​
0.92​
+65​
176​
1.89​
LVG​
76​
39​
51.32%​
19​
25.00%​
18​
23.68%​
111​
1.46​
72​
0.95​
+39​
136​
1.79​
Moyes​
35​
18​
51.43%​
6​
17.14%​
11​
31.43%​
59​
1.61​
41​
1.17​
+18​
60​
1.71​

ETH's metrics in the above are abysmal. He got us 2 cups but our day to day form under him was atrocious.

He's got the 2nd lowest Pts PG, 0.01 above Moyes, the worst GD, the highest Loss %, highest GA PG and lowest GF PG. The only stat he isn't bottom is W% where he's barely above the other three.
If you take in the financial backing and the control he had over the signings, EtH is comfortably the worst manager you've ever had since SAF retired.

Shit man-manager, shit tactician, shit in-game manager, shit communicator, arrogant shit-head, peppered your team with expensive duds you're going to have a hard time to get rid off. I'll never understand how some of your fans were still ready to defend him to the death.
 
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Whilst it wasn’t pretty LVG has been the only one to coach into us anything that resembled a ‘style’

And he was quite the colourful character. I wish it worked out better for him. But he did get rid of some decent squad players and replace them with sub par players.

Moyes out of his depth

Mourinho was becoming a bit of a dinosaur

Ole was quite attractive but not sustainable

I genuinely thought Erik would be the one. Done well to get a couple of trophies. But we just never progressed.

Hard to order them. Just a generally inadequate performance from the lot
 
Oh come on, Coventry didn't outplay us at all, our players (particularly AwB IIRC) just absolutely lost their heads in the last 15 minutes. As for the Villarreal game, our performance against City in the final was a LOT better than our performance against Villarreal and we actually won it in normal time.
We needed Ortega to gift us a goal and just parked it after the Mainoo goal and got a prime Varane box defending masterclass to see it out. The notion that we played City off the park or played city off the park needs to die. XG was even including the Garnacho gift and we didn’t really have a kick the second half. Good performance and probably our only chance of winning that game but far too much credit gets given as if we were fantastic that day or something.

Doesn’t matter. My point is valuing domestic cups amidst historical disastrous results both in Europe and in the league, alongside countless embarrassing defeats and hammerings to both rivals and lower table clubs, when rating him among other managers is strange to me
 
Ole comfortably the best so far. LvG might be the worst one for me.
 
Jose - 6.5/10
Ole - 5.5/10
LVG - 4.5/10
EtH - 4/10

Moyes would be at 3/10 but tbh it’s difficult to rate him considering he had the most difficult job, little support and very little time.
 
If you take in the financial backing and the control he had over the signings, EtH is comfortably the worst manager you've ever had since SAF retired.

Shit man-manager, shit tactician, shit in-game manager, shit communicator, arrogant shit-head, peppered your team with expensive duds you're going to have a hard time to get rid off. I'll never understand how some of your fans were ready to defend him to hilt.
From the outside it really is clear
 
I don't think I can give them a score, but I can rank them. I will dismiss Carrick, Rangnick and Giggs since none of them were full time.

1) Mourinho
2) Ole
3) LVG
4) Moyes
5) ETH

None of them have been particularly good, but this is how I judge them relative to each other
 
Now we're making excuses for Moyes?

I'm out.
None for Moyes but in terms of 'destroying a 25 year legacy' there are plenty of other factors.

Modern football clubs are built and shaped in a way that their legacy can survive one player, one figure, one manager etc.

Fergie's legacy was undermined as early as 2005 but certainly the hallmarks were there post-Ronaldo sale with Valencia etc coming in to replace him. The rise of City probably go the last hurrahs with with RVP signings but we were a reactive club not looking to future-proof and that's what destroyed the legacy as much as one under equipped manager
 
4/10 for Moyes is a bit generous. It suggests there were positives, what positives were there?

I'd go for a still generous 1/10.
Topped UCL group, reached UCL quarters (we managed only another time to do so), we had the occasional big win here and there, Januzaj looking like a top player.

I admit there were just a few positives, and we were mainly shit. But on hindsight, so many better managers did just marginally better than him. We reached 64 points (and UCL quarters with Moyes). We reached 66 points (and couldn't pass UCL groups, got hammered by Liverpool in Europa but won FA Cup), so just 2 points more on LVG's second season. Similarly, we reached just 66 points (and UCL quarters) in Ole's caretaker and first full season. Just 58 points in Ole/Rangnick's season, and just 60 points last season (and UCL humiliation). We were on course for a 46 point season now.

So overall, he didn't do too much worse than the other managers (except Mourinho) in half of their time here. I think I gave him a generous 3/10.