yes they are - maybe more than most for bigger muscle mass , maybe not the same doping but they're in it too - wasn't armstrong tested more than anyone else? i mean they are nicking these guys left and right and he never tested positive. it's a dirty sport which is now tainting the name of the greats that made it a spectacle!
Rasmussen sacked by team: All Tour De France stuff here
- Thread starter Rams
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yes they are - maybe more than most for bigger muscle mass , maybe not the same doping but they're in it too - wasn't armstrong tested more than anyone else? i mean they are nicking these guys left and right and he never tested positive. it's a dirty sport which is now tainting the name of the greats that made it a spectacle!
Agreed. For some reason people think that doping makes it easy to win. It doesn't. It might make a small difference on the day that might enable the cyclist to do something superhuman. But there's an incredible amount of pain and sweat that goes into it, and some kinds of doping make it even worse.
You shouldn't cheat, and Vino was wrong, but at the end of the day he was already toast before he even got on the bike in the time trial. In stage 15 he only escaped because he wasn't a threat. Hardly gaining an advantage.
Of course cycling is hard as hell- if you do drugs or if you don`t. Rams trying to somehow justify it by the struggling look on their faces when they climb is ludacris. All riders go through hell to get through TdF, but some do it by cheating while others stay clean.
The "small" difference" in performance you talk of isn`t that small at all. Johan Muelegg was hailed for completing the best 30 km cross country ski ever in Salt Lake 2002 - he completely distanced his rivals. Landis won the TdF on one incredible stage last year, no one came close to him that day and pundits claimed that it was the best they had seen in cycling. Full of dope of course. I saw some of that in Vino during saturdays time travel and mondays stage, it made a huge difference.
It doesn`t matter either that he was out of the fight for the yellow jersey. A stage victory gives a lot of cred, cash and exposure for the team and sponsors -Astana and Mittal.
They wouldn`t necassarily want bigger muscle mass-then they wouldn`t get through the mountains.
As for Lance being tested most... During the late nighties and early in the millenium riders were using EPO and the testers had yet to develop techniques to find it. The riders doctors were years in front of the testers, I think they have been until now to be honest.
When we know that Riis,Pantani, Ullrich (most certainly) and Landis cheated - these are the ones who won before and after Lance, and the same ones he competed against. Throw in Basso and Vino and suddenly all his opponents used drugs- then for me it`s hard to believe that Lance won it 7 times (riding for the richest team) without using drugs. He was of course still a great athlete, because among all the cheating riders he was still the best.
Cross country skiing is still ahead I believe. And you would need to mention as well that there is a lot more money behind the teams cheating than there is behind those who test them. More money = more research and science =
more ways to cheat.
It looks like some of you posters know what you are talking about. For shift work reasons I have been able to watch the Tour for the first time live as it is on here at about 5.00am and I have really enjoyed the competition, the scenery and the commentary of the two English guys. This must be the toughest event in all of sports but on the drug question would it not be simple to test the first few finishers at each stage plus a random cyclist from each team?
Secondly, the way the spectators are allowed to get so close to the cyclists amazes me. Wouldn't it be quite easy for some fanatic to push one off his bike or a regular fan to trip in front of them.
Thirdly, is that entourage of cars, scooters, and motorbikes well regulated or is it as chaotic as the camera leads me to be believe?
Just curious.
Secondly, the way the spectators are allowed to get so close to the cyclists amazes me. Wouldn't it be quite easy for some fanatic to push one off his bike or a regular fan to trip in front of them.
Thirdly, is that entourage of cars, scooters, and motorbikes well regulated or is it as chaotic as the camera leads me to be believe?
Just curious.
Rams is not trying to justify it. What he's saying is that the doping issue is blown out of proportion by the people who say they've lost interest because of it. Cycling has always been about doping. Anyone who doesn't know this doesn't know cycling. Nevertheless, I reckon the majority of winners have been clean - or at least, didn't derive a great deal of advantage from doping.
Don't know much about skiing. However, if you look at what Landis took - testosterone - and what he did - basically charge out at the beginning of the stage and sprint up and down 4 mountains - then you'll know that he didn't derive any physical advantage from it at all. Testosterone doesn't actually improve your stamina in the race. Its purpose is to enable you to build muscle before the race. And whether or not Landis took it doesn't change the fact that it was an incredible ride. Could someone else have done it with the same dope? Probably not - but you will think this only if you know Landis's history and what kind of rider he is.
It doesn't matter to the overall standings of the race. If Vino had been in contention, I doubt he would have been allowed to win Stage 15. Go back and watch it again - you'll see that Contador and Rasmussen were more interested in trying to get each other to crack, rather than worry about Vino.
They already do the tests this way. The yellow jersey gets tested after every stage. However, the tests aren't foolproof, and they really need to be conducted 3-6 weeks before the Tour to catch the real offenders.
Happens quite a lot - the cyclist is expected to get up and keep riding, unless he physically can't get into the saddle. Tyler Hamilton once rode the entire Tour with a broken collarbone. Of course he was doped to the gills, but the dope doesn't reduce pain. Most people with a broken collarbone get morphine and don't move around for weeks.
Probably chaotic. The cars and scooters go backwards and forwards to deliver food, water, instructions etc to the riders. It's a nightmare.
the ASO are hypocrites about doping too though, Rams. Virenque still has his KOM jerseys, and Erik Zabel didn't give up all his green jerseys, while Riis was asked to give his yellow back. It's also about how French you are, and how popular you are with the ASO.
Those two let him go. But he distanced the 25 or so other riders in the tete group. They sure as hell didn`t let him go. Some off them were good strong riders. And so what if it didn`t matter in the all over standings. He cheated- him being 30 minutes behind the yellow jersey doesn`t change nor jutify that.
On another note spinoza...
What are your thoughts about Rasmussen?
Brilliant rider for sure in the mountains and was impressive today, but:
1. Lives in Italy but has his cycling license in Monaco and Mexico -those two countries associations has never tested him.
2. Has received four warnings from the drug controllers for not stating where he is at that given time.
3. Was in Mexico for two or three weeks prior to Tour de France, and noone was able to get hold of him when they wanted to test him.
4. Has not been tested outside of competition this year. At all.
5. Rabobank aren`t even sure if they want to renew his contract.
Looks grim IMO.
What are your thoughts about Rasmussen?
Brilliant rider for sure in the mountains and was impressive today, but:
1. Lives in Italy but has his cycling license in Monaco and Mexico -those two countries associations has never tested him.
2. Has received four warnings from the drug controllers for not stating where he is at that given time.
3. Was in Mexico for two or three weeks prior to Tour de France, and noone was able to get hold of him when they wanted to test him.
4. Has not been tested outside of competition this year. At all.
5. Rabobank aren`t even sure if they want to renew his contract.
Looks grim IMO.
Ruben, where the hell do you get this nonsense from???
1. He his registered as a Danish rider. Therefore, the Danish athorities test him, no matter where he is.
2, 3 & 4. he has recieved 1 recorded warning for informing the athorities of his whereabouts... errr... 1 day too late! That's 1 day too late in March, three months in advance. Only on 1 occassion did he miss a test, in June, because they couldn't find his whereabouts. He was tested a few days later and he was found negative.
5. If he does leave Rabobank then it'll be because they can't afford to pay the winner of the TDF! Do you honestly beleieve the Rabo's don't want to TDF winner in their team?
STOP TALKING SHIT!
seems to be going tits up with all these doping cases. there has been talk for years that cycling is as full of drugs as a rio ferdinand party. maybe the testers are catching up with them
Rasmussen kicked out now
Brilliant
This Tour is pretty funny
Brilliant
This Tour is pretty funny
Good riddance to that pale, little shit. A moutain king from Denmark? Come the feck on!
Rabobank have fired him. The offcial word is that he has broken Rabobank's house rules.
Unoffcially: when he missed the test (15-16 june) he claimed he was in at family in Mexico. Apparently an Italian journalist spotted him on those days training in the Dolomites in Italy. The Italian journalist told the ex Danish Rabo rider Simonson, who's there working for Danish telly. He then informed Theo de Rooy, team leader of the Rabo's. Rabo, feeling betrayed, fired him on the spot.
Unoffcially: when he missed the test (15-16 june) he claimed he was in at family in Mexico. Apparently an Italian journalist spotted him on those days training in the Dolomites in Italy. The Italian journalist told the ex Danish Rabo rider Simonson, who's there working for Danish telly. He then informed Theo de Rooy, team leader of the Rabo's. Rabo, feeling betrayed, fired him on the spot.
are there mountains in Texas?
Rabobank just through him out of the Tour. Congratulations on looking like the dumbest man in the world!
Seriously, guys. They need to shut it down.
He`s had four warnings. 4 not 1.
Link:
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/24072007/58/tour-de-france-ras-four-warnings.html
And if you read this link, you will find that the authorities of Mexico and Monaco are the ones who should be testing him, when they in fact don`t. The story also says that the Danish authorities may not have acted within their authorities when they tested him abroad BECAUSE he is not registered with his license there.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/070724/2/u5x1.html
Tour de ridiculous.
@this years edition.Thing is, last year was no better. Several big riders were kicked on the eve of the Prologue, and then ofcource it turned out the winner was a druggie too. Yet, this case is still open so he's still the champion!
It gets worse every year it seems. Very sad.
But RAMS:
Did you just make up points as you went? Your post was wrong in every single word.
Did you just make up points as you went? Your post was wrong in every single word.
no it isnt Ruben, as tonights dramatic happenings prove...
You see, he lied to the Rabobank of his whereabouts. It turns out he wasn't Mexico but in Italy.
He fooled me, Rabobank and the whole world.
You on the other hand, posted a load of shit which you probably made up.
This tour is turning out to be something else.
I hope for the sake of cycling that the Tour comes down hard on all these teams.
I hope for the sake of cycling that the Tour comes down hard on all these teams.
If he doesn't have a Danish license, which I was not aware of, then he must be tested by the athorities which hold his liscence.
I have links proving all my points in page 1 after your post. Not one word I said is not linked there.
You should read through those articles, you might learn a few things. Seriously Rams, your post was utterly wrong on every point you tried to make.
Ill give them to you again.
You said he had one warning. This link proves he had four, like I said.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/24072007/58/tour-de-france-ras-four-warnings.html
Ruben, I find this a very strange article as only the UCI can hand such a warning. He has received 1 recorded warning from the UCI. And if he doesn't ride under Danish liscence, then surely it is not their athority?
Pat McQuaid himself said that Rasmussen had an negative out of competition test in June a few days after missing a test.
You`re missing the point mate. He is from Denmark, and represents them in the Olympics and such. They can test him in Denmark, when he didn`t show they warned him. Four times.
His professional cycling license however- which has nothing to do with what country he represents- has been in Mexico and Monaco.
So all in all: 1 warning from UCI and 4 warnings from Danish Cycling
That`s just the point. Monaco and Mexico are famous for not giving a flying feck about testing. That`s why he is licensed there and not in Denmark.
Do you understand English? He has had 1 recorded warning from the UCI.
Do you even know what the UCI is? Do you beleive everything Eurosport tells you to believe?
I get the feeling Indurain was clean - that guy was a freak. But the rest of `em, Hinault, Lemond, Fignan, Delgado etc etc all druggies imo. They didn`t test then so they were all at it.
I think these cheats being caught this year is a sign at least that the cheating isn`t always going undetected. Two year bans are pointless however - i`d feck `em with a life ban. A proper deterrent.
I think some of the teams need to be stripped down of their staff. The drug culture runs very deep. Astana and T Mobile are two examples. It differs a lot from team to team obviously.
I`m also for life time bans for the worst cases.
Only the UCI can warn riders. The Danish athorities are acting out of their juristriction. It even says so in your eurosport crap.
Read post 50. I`ve tried explaining it to you but it won`t sink in.
It`s not Eurosport saying this, it`s the President of the Danish Cycling Association.
No they were out of their jurisdiction when they went abroad to test him. Of course they can warn him as well. He was going to represent them in the 2008 Olympics and the WC, but they kicked him out when he didn`t show.
I give up.... what ever you like, it's your party.