We can buy Messi and we wont win the league. It's all about: what are we building for?
Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United
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We can buy Messi and we wont win the league. It's all about: what are we building for?
as one of the biggest football clubs around, United should also be confident in its ability to develop talent and take players to the next level. It should be one of our manager's mandates.
Winning the league will be hard regardless, we just need to compete - and look to get guys like Garnacho and potentially Hojlund (if he does come) up there. Real believed in Vini and is a monster player now, for example.
Closing in on a deal according to Chris Wheeler. Is he reliable?
You can’t win anything with kids
Got a good feeling about this lad, hopefully we get him for a good price and fast
This thread is driving me crazy with people saying Hojlund is not who we should get, whatever way they say but then don't offer an alternative. The whole point is we don't have the budget for a Kane or Osihmen.
It's literally one throw-away line in his article about Rashford's new contract.
If it was news worth reporting it would be it's own story. Safe to say we can dismiss this one.
We know he gets a lot of chances, he just misses them.
Where's he said it?
This makes more sense. I was wondering what the discrepancy between reports could be down to, as it's not like Ducker and Whitwell to put out numbers like that unless told.
Nobody knows what Kane would cost, but it can’t be much more than 86m. I will admit that beyond him and Osimhen, I’m stumped. There’s a lack of top class strikers, and maybe Ten Hag has identified Hojlund as his ideal no.9 - I don’t know. I’m happy to roll with that, I just feel the price is insane given what he’s done up to this point.
No. And it's one line in a story about Rashford's new contract.
If we can’t bring in a guarantee like Kane then we’re going to have to take a bit of a punt. As has been pointed out already, it’s slim pickings, so we’ll just have to hold our noses, accept the fee, and hope that the promise turns into something that resembles the real deal.
50m should be the maximum we go for him even though that’s still pretty high.
Daily Mail Sport I believe.
It seems crazy money to be honest
They were for sure higher rated talents that Hojlund. 70M for a promising young player is crazy unless he's a potential worldclass talent. I dont think Hojlund is a potential worldclass talent. He's not on the level as the one's I mentioned or Haaland when he first moved to Dortmund.
70M is the price of a consolidated striker, a solid one. Hojlund while a promising stiker it's clearly a tier below, we shouldnt pay more than 40-45M for him.
Imagine how much Rooney would cost these days if this guy is £60m+. He's nowhere near Rooneys level and he's older than Rooney was when we signed him. Rooney was doing similar numbers as a Second Striker, in the PL, at 16/17 years old.
People are stupid. It’s just a bunch of bitching or people saying “we should get Kane!” repeatedly.
I also think far too many are underrating this kids potential. A decent fee and I think it’s an underrated brilliant signing because it signals we are more willing to trust our evaluations over needing every signing to be one of the best in their league before going in for them and being quoted 9 figure prices.
I mean yeah Rooney would cost a world record fee obviously, but he’s also an all time level player. And quite frankly if we spanked 150m on Rooney as an 18 year old people here would be whining as well about how underwhelming his production is
I guess my question is, who do we think scouted this lad, and who is pushing for him the most? Ten Hag or the Scouts?
From most reports it looks like Ten Hag is the one pushing for this to go through the most, which is weird given our supposed scouts have had the best part of a year to scour the world for an half-decent striker. Not to say he couldn't turn out to be an excellent signing, but I'm always wary of managers recommending players.
From most reports it looks like Ten Hag is the one pushing for this to go through the most, which is weird given our supposed scouts have had the best part of a year to scour the world for an half-decent striker. Not to say he couldn't turn out to be an excellent signing, but I'm always wary of managers recommending players.
Yes, imagine that. He commanded a world record fee for a U21, I believe? So yeah, maybe £125m today, I’d imagine.
Apparently he's the next Wayne Rooney...
His anticipation and off-the-ball movement is at an absolute maximum, aswell as his first touch, turns, passes, dribbling skills, pace and even shot accuracy. His natural physique makes him a juggernaut for defenders to deal with. This guy's 20 years old, he's already a scary sight for defenders and he's only going to get better. He is a gem that can be polished more to shine with ETH as coach. I would pay £65m for him. We gonna regret if this guy slip through our fingers.
Not sure what this means? Martinez may have a great stat in this aspect but it doesn't mean he's good enough for Utd or someone we should be looking at.
It's like when we were about to sign Lukaku and some people criticised his overall play or (lack thereof) technique etc, others pointed to his goal stats in his defence. You've got to look at the overall picture.
Yep, people just moaning with no actual realistic alternatives.
Same as Mbappe. Definitely much more that Osimeh. He was an 18 year old wonder kid.
Ramos, Vlahovic, Watkins, Kolo Muani are all players you can test the waters with for 70m Eur that Atalanta are asking. And this is randomly off the top of my head.
This insinuation that you can't get a more established player of similar quality for that asking price is naive. A lot of posters haven't named strikers because that goes without saying.
More like the next Alan Smith.Apparently he's the next Wayne Rooney...
Who is that proper Utd level CF not called Kane or Osimhen we should be signing then
Why cant we just go and sign a wonderkid forward from Brazil for 60m like Barcelona and Real do, Vítor Rogue for example. We never discover anyone do we, always buying players that have been discovered by someone else.
Maybe they don't fit that number 9 which Erik wants whereas this guy does. Clearly there is something about Vlahovic which is putting us off making a move. We were loosely linked with Watkins a couple of weeks back. I can't shake a feeling of Ramos being underwhelming since the World Cup and suspect Kolo-Muani is a bit too similar to Rashford in our eyes.
Majority of the best strikers that ever played in this league didn't come from this league, PL proven shite is a myth.
If you seriously want to forego a signing that could be a fantastic elite striker for us for years to come for Mitrovic you actively want us to fail.
What was Harry Kane doing at Hojlund's age? Nothing, scoring 5 goals at Leyton Orient.
"Proper Utd level CF" and names Mitrovic and Watkins please be serious, not sure what is wrong with all of you, absolutely no grasp on reality or just straight up spoiled people crying because they can't get Kane or Osimhen.
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Your idea of strikers that are alternatives to Hojlund is two strikers Newcastle are unlikely to have an intention to sell and have the economic power to retain, and players at City, Arsenal and Liverpool.
I get that you're trying to give "examples" of the type we could go after rather than direct targets but that's a redundant exercise in truth. They have to actually be available this summer and that's what we're coming up against. Availability of strong options and a limited budget to blow clubs out of the water with what we can offer (say for Osimhen or Ramos, even Kane). Those are the things that are constraining us.
There just isn't many proven choices that are more compelling. Yes you can throw in random guys from France but that's very much the Hojlund school of signing. What's the point in that if ETH rates Hojlund as the best potential? No point whatsoever I'd suggest.
Other than that I'm seeing stuff like Mitrovic or Watkins..players we absolutely know are not good enough in the long term. So posters are advocating a sticking plaster rather than trusting a top class manager to build a player out of potential. I think that's foolish. I'm not saying they're rubbish players but we know their ceiling. It's pretty much cut and dry and what you see is what you get and what you see is not United level, it's a placeholder.
Right but maybe we should not be looking to succumb solely to what Ten Hag wants as the number 2 choice. There's a system where manager and club can veto when things get unreasonable.
Klopp didn't want salah, for example but the club knew it was a good move.
I agree hojlund fits the target man nature well but he's not as established as Ramos or Vlahovic and Atalanta shouldn't get away with trying to place a crazy price tag for him. For that fee hes effectively built to be a flop unless he goes on an insane trajectory.
Ah the old "what was Kane doing at that age".
You'd struggle to find a more flawed argument.
Jonathan David, Lille.
He scored 30 league goals in two years with Belgium's Gent, then moved to Lille, where he scored 13 for a league champion in 2019-20, then raised his tally to 15 in 2021-22 and a whopping 24 last season. Within the Big Five leagues, only Erling Haaland, Harry Kane, Kylian Mbappe, Victor Osimhen and Alexandre Lacazette scored more.
David is approaching 100 career club goals, he's got 25 for Canada, and among high-level scorers he's also one of the most willing and effective pressers. Oh yeah, and he won't turn 24 until January.
Dusan Vlahovic, Juventus.
Bad series of injuries last season. Vlahovic had managed 14 goals and four assists from 28 chances created. That's down from his 29 goals in all competitions in 2021-22, but his down years would be phenomenal for most. He's a reliable space creator in the box, he can both hold the ball up or win headers when asked. And he might still be a few more years from his athletic peak. Juve out of the CL. Still only 23.
Kolo Muani, Eintracht Frankfurt.
After scoring 12 league goals and leading Nantes to the 2022 Coupe de France, he moved to Eintracht Frankfurt and one-upped himself in every possible way. He set a career high with 15 league goals, and his 11 assists were second most in the Bundesliga and more than he had managed in his previous two seasons combined. He scored a pair of goals in Champions League play, and he was a steady producer throughout the year, too -- even as Eintracht faded late in the season, he still scored seven goals in his last 11 overall matches. 24 years old.
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3 young players above, still haven't reached their peak. All seem more of a sure thing than Hojland, who is all potential at this point. Maybe our scouts have decided to pass on these players, I haven't seen anything saying why we have or have not looked at them.
If we were able to lock down Hojland for a low fee, great. Low risk, not the high expectations that have been hung around Maguire's and Antony's necks because of their price tags. If we are willing to pay near what Atalanta is reported to be holding out for (some 30 million more than we have apparently bid), what would strikers like the 3 above be priced at? No idea.
Do we go into next season and CL with one unproven 20 year old leading the line and hope we scored a diamond in the rough? Or do we look for more of a stop-gap? I think if we get Hojland, the pressure will be intense. If he doesn't deliver right away, he'll be a meme. He really needs to be the junior partner of a 2-man striker partnership. We play him for a year then pick up Kane for free in the summer?
quotes taken from:
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37949548/fc-100-best-men-strikers-2022-23
He scored 30 league goals in two years with Belgium's Gent, then moved to Lille, where he scored 13 for a league champion in 2019-20, then raised his tally to 15 in 2021-22 and a whopping 24 last season. Within the Big Five leagues, only Erling Haaland, Harry Kane, Kylian Mbappe, Victor Osimhen and Alexandre Lacazette scored more.
David is approaching 100 career club goals, he's got 25 for Canada, and among high-level scorers he's also one of the most willing and effective pressers. Oh yeah, and he won't turn 24 until January.
Dusan Vlahovic, Juventus.
Bad series of injuries last season. Vlahovic had managed 14 goals and four assists from 28 chances created. That's down from his 29 goals in all competitions in 2021-22, but his down years would be phenomenal for most. He's a reliable space creator in the box, he can both hold the ball up or win headers when asked. And he might still be a few more years from his athletic peak. Juve out of the CL. Still only 23.
Kolo Muani, Eintracht Frankfurt.
After scoring 12 league goals and leading Nantes to the 2022 Coupe de France, he moved to Eintracht Frankfurt and one-upped himself in every possible way. He set a career high with 15 league goals, and his 11 assists were second most in the Bundesliga and more than he had managed in his previous two seasons combined. He scored a pair of goals in Champions League play, and he was a steady producer throughout the year, too -- even as Eintracht faded late in the season, he still scored seven goals in his last 11 overall matches. 24 years old.
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3 young players above, still haven't reached their peak. All seem more of a sure thing than Hojland, who is all potential at this point. Maybe our scouts have decided to pass on these players, I haven't seen anything saying why we have or have not looked at them.
If we were able to lock down Hojland for a low fee, great. Low risk, not the high expectations that have been hung around Maguire's and Antony's necks because of their price tags. If we are willing to pay near what Atalanta is reported to be holding out for (some 30 million more than we have apparently bid), what would strikers like the 3 above be priced at? No idea.
Do we go into next season and CL with one unproven 20 year old leading the line and hope we scored a diamond in the rough? Or do we look for more of a stop-gap? I think if we get Hojland, the pressure will be intense. If he doesn't deliver right away, he'll be a meme. He really needs to be the junior partner of a 2-man striker partnership. We play him for a year then pick up Kane for free in the summer?
quotes taken from:
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37949548/fc-100-best-men-strikers-2022-23
How is it a flawed argument? The point is is that people constantly going on about this and that need to realise not every forward is pissing Haaland at 20 years of age. You wanna count the player out before he's even stepped foot on the pitch for us just as you would have with Kane and other forwards of a similar age who haven't scored 20/30 goals at the time
Jonathan David's stats i'll grant you paint a better picture, and at a rumoured 50 mill Euro's that's a great deal for someone you'd suspect.. but nobody seems to be in for him. I suspect the reason is that Jonathan David is more of a 2nd or SS, he is not normally played as a lone forward as far as I'm aware, he's also only 5'9 and less physical than Hojlund, and his game is completely different. If we played with two forwards i'd he'd be a good choice, but we don't.
Metrics backup that on the whole Hojlund actually had a better season than Vlahovic, he's also faster, younger and I would argue has more potential. Not only that but PSG seem like they are going to buy Vlahovic.
Kolo Muani is a completely different type of forward to Hojlund, and so that might be the reason we aren't going for him? Not only that but it's been reported he'd cost anywhere from 80-100 so he's more expensive than Hojlund
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