Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United

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Neither Hojlund atm.

I agree, but that wasn't what we were discussing :)

His point was that he is not a world class talent so he shouldn't go for €60m. So my question to him is does he think world class talents go for €60m?

The truth is that they don't - unless they have a release clause - they go for twice that. So €60m for a young, highly rated striker in a market where there barely are strikers, and where we desperately need one, the price really isn't that bad.
 
I agree, but that wasn't what we were discussing :)

His point was that he is not a world class talent so he shouldn't go for €60m. So my question to him is does he think world class talents go for €60m?

The truth is that they don't - unless they have a release clause - they go for twice that. So €60m for a young, highly rated striker in a market where there barely are strikers, and where we desperately need one, the price really isn't that bad.

Yeah I still feel there is room for negotiation
 
I agree, but that wasn't what we were discussing :)

His point was that he is not a world class talent so he shouldn't go for €60m. So my question to him is does he think world class talents go for €60m?

The truth is that they don't - unless they have a release clause - they go for twice that. So €60m for a young, highly rated striker in a market where there barely are strikers, and where we desperately need one, the price really isn't that bad.
Yeah agree €60m is not that bad. But I'd still prefer €40m + €20m add ons.

If Atalanta are that sure of his supposedly huge potential they shouldn't mind the adds on should they? Why they insist only cash? Maybe because they haven't got the add ons from the Amad deal yet?
 
Whilst those questions exist you can also point out that at the same age Osimhen couldn't hit a barn door for Wolfsburg and was shipped out to the Belgian league where he managed 12 goals in a season mostly as a starter. RH has 9 goals in Serie A, primarliy from the bench and so arguably is ahead at this respective stage in his career. Of course nothing is a given but you would expect a 20 year old to get better and a 20 year old who fits the style of play we are working towards and will be coached by ETH should get a lot better.

Yeah Erik has already proved in his first year with the club he's capable of improving players and believe he will with this guy as well
 
What would people consider a suitable addons figure for this guy just out of interest
 
That's the thing. At 20 only early bloomers have better records, while there is no guarantee that he turns into a superstar his records over the past couple of years suggest that he is on track to at least be a very good striker. The latest fees are excessive but the profile of the player and his current level are perfectly fine.

Not to mention the selling club knows the buying club are desperate for a striker.
 
How confident are we of signing him?
Based on the fact the striker market has no one available and we are desperate I'm 95% confident we get this done.

Also bar Kane who we can't get he is by all reports our number 1 choice. Can't really see a single good reason that the club won't get ETH a striker in his second season
 
Yeah agree €60m is not that bad. But I'd still prefer €40m + €20m add ons.

If Atalanta are that sure of his supposedly huge potential they shouldn't mind the adds on should they? Why they insist only cash? Maybe because they haven't got the add ons from the Amad deal yet?

If we could pull that off, that would be very good business. However, I can get why Atalanta (and every other club) want a full deal with the cash straight away, and no addons. He's a promising striker, and their other two strikers - Luis Muriel and Duvan Zapata - are aging and regressing so they would need another striker to come in to replace Højlund if he leaves.

If we're being honest with ourselves here, say Atalanta sell for €40m, who are they going to buy for the same price to replace Højlund and be equally as good? If there was a clear candidate, we'd surely be in for him, but there aren't, so Atalanta are going to have to take a risk to replace Højlund by buying a cheaper, likely unknown striker and hopefully it pays off for them. Atalanta want to compete as well, not just develop players to sell them and gain a profit.
 
Based on the fact the striker market has no one available and we are desperate I'm 95% confident we get this done.

Also bar Kane who we can't get he is by all reports our number 1 choice. Can't really see a single good reason that the club won't get ETH a striker in his second season

Still holding out hope Kane turns down Bayern
 
I just hope we sign him. Don’t really care about the price we sign him for. I just thinks a good player who would immediately and grow into something much much better.

Sooner it gets done the better.
 
Is this because we don’t have the budget for the likes of Ramos/Lautaro/Muani/Vlahovic? I’m pretty sure we were willing to spend big on Kane, so surely we can get a better striker than Hojlund?
 
£60m ballpark figures are crazy imo. Established international players are going for those kind of figures, or at the very least established premier league players being sold by cash rich premier league sides. Atalanta have already had our pants down with Amad and they’re doing it again. I feel if we sign him this summer we’ll be heavily reliant upon martial who we just can’t keep fit. Unless the plan is Hojlund now and Kane later in the window/in jan/next summer, then this feels far too risky for a top club right now. I hope I’m forced to eat my words, and he does fit the profile of a ETH striker with the physical qualities to succeed in the premier league. But it’s a far bigger gamble than Nunez was or someone like Ramos would be. Big risk, big reward I guess, it’s definitely a ballsy move.
 
There simply had to be someone between Kane and Hojlund.

If Kane is first choice, I don’t understand how Hojlund can be next in line.
 
Is this because we don’t have the budget for the likes of Ramos/Lautaro/Muani/Vlahovic? I’m pretty sure we were willing to spend big on Kane, so surely we can get a better striker than Hojlund?
Probably because Ramos and Muani aren’t definitely better, nor are they really the style of striker. Vlahovic flatters to deceive if anyone watches him, and Martinez looks like he would cost way more and might not be all that based on some of the games I saw
 
Is this because we don’t have the budget for the likes of Ramos/Lautaro/Muani/Vlahovic? I’m pretty sure we were willing to spend big on Kane, so surely we can get a better striker than Hojlund?

We maybe willing to go over budget for Kane but that may not make sense for Ramos or Vlahovic for ex. Budgets, valuations, manager/director preferences.
 
We maybe willing to go over budget for Kane but that may not make sense for Ramos or Vlahovic for ex. Budgets, valuations, manager/director preferences.

Yeah Kane was clearly stand out target and despite people not liking it I think this is the backup,obviously he is hoping like many of us Kane is still on market in maybe January but most likely next summer to get the best of both worlds
 
He is going to say he doesn’t know, he’s not a scout, what do we pay our scouts for… :)
Nice trick. Remove obvious answer.
There are bloody hundreds strikers around. Young and old. Cheap and expensive. If our striker shortlist for this summer were only Kane and Hojlund then we really deserve to be fleeced. Again.
 
If we could pull that off, that would be very good business. However, I can get why Atalanta (and every other club) want a full deal with the cash straight away, and no addons. He's a promising striker, and their other two strikers - Luis Muriel and Duvan Zapata - are aging and regressing so they would need another striker to come in to replace Højlund if he leaves.

If we're being honest with ourselves here, say Atalanta sell for €40m, who are they going to buy for the same price to replace Højlund and be equally as good? If there was a clear candidate, we'd surely be in for him, but there aren't, so Atalanta are going to have to take a risk to replace Højlund by buying a cheaper, likely unknown striker and hopefully it pays off for them. Atalanta want to compete as well, not just develop players to sell them and gain a profit.
That's simply not how it works here mate.

Imo Hojlund atm with his cv doesn't even worth €40m. With a much more proven goals scoring record Lukaku reportedly worth about €50m. The striker market is surely dire, but only for the top proven ones. The average ones? Well not that dire imo.

We're ready to pay let's say €40m + €20m because we really need a striker and we think he has potential. That's a fair deal imo and I'm pretty sure Atalanta would find plenty options to replace him. Or they don't even need to since they already have two. They're a bit old but surely enough for them for at least the next season. Then they could buy Elanga from us for example. Imo Elanga would do pretty well there as any attacker with some good pace and average at everthing else. Then change his name to Hojlanga and ask us for another €60m.

Joking aside it's not that hard to find an average striker. The current Hojlund is average. He might turn into a good one though but nobody can be sure of that. That's why there are the add ons. You pay cash for the current ability of the player. Then a bit cash and add ons for his potential. Nobody pay all cash for a young kid that none can be sure about. That's how it works here mate.
 
Some of the takes here make very little sense. To not be particularly enthused by the signing because we were hoping for a top striker is one thing. I think we have all been hoping for an established, top class 9 in their prime as we have lacked that for so long. So I get that frustration. Hojlund is not that and probably won't develop into that for quite a number of seasons. As people like to say, he is a project - but one we hope can contribute in the short term. There is no world where it can be guaranteed that Hojlund is a major contributor next season. I think the conservative guess would be that he'll offer something Weghorst and an injured Martial can't but beyond that who knows.

But the arguments put forward around the negative aspects of this signing are pretty weak when you actually get into the detail and context of it.

For example, it's too much and we should go for someone else. So who are these various other strikers that are a) more appealing and b) better value? You can go cheap and get what you pay for on some journeyman or totally unheard of prospect, or you can go big and throw your name into an Osimhen hat, but if the budget isn't there it isn't there to do that. There is no "established, cheap" market for a striker. There just ain't. So what I want to know is who are the strikers that fit into our reported budget that people will advocate for ahead of Hojlund? That's a far more useful discussion than simply moaning about price because it frames the discussion within the parameters the club actually works within. Not vague feelings.

On price. Why is it such poor value according to some? He's just turned 20, had a promising season in a major league and scored a goal a game for his national team. It's not like he has been playing in the Latvian league. What are we really expecting to get a player like that for? Buttons? I think the fact Atalanta unearthed him and took the initial risk should be rewarded. That's the way it works in football. Those that go for unheralded players end up making a huge profit if they work, but they'll sign 5 or 6 others that don't ever make it to top clubs and several that are complete duds. Is he being priced like a major superstar? No he's not, they're starting at 70 million euros probably with a view to sealing a deal around 55-60million euros, which is not a fee for a 20 year old that is considered an elite talent in Europe. If Hojlund comes to United and scores 15 league goals, he's probably adding a third to that valuation immediately. So that tells me this fee is very much in the ballpark and gives room for it to go either way, it is not a premium valuation. If he scores 10 league goals in the next couple seasons he is probably not going to be a loss maker for us, and if he becomes what ETH would envisage then he is a rare breed of 9 and you can put any figure on it.

For me it's quite clear that most aspects of this transfer would be a positive. If we can negotiate it down it fits into the budget. He's young, very talented, great physically which prepares him for our league. The manager has shown he can improve players and he is getting raw ingridients for a 9.

I believe you’ve posted this in the wrong thread. This is not the ‘give a reasoned coherent balanced argument for why Hoijland might be worth a punt’ thread. It’s the moan about all the money we’re spending on a young prospect when we could buy Osimhen and Kane for 50p more thread. I suggest you go and do a rewrite and post it again when it makes far less sense.

But seriously though you’ve nailed it. Great post!
 
That's simply not how it works here mate.

Imo Hojlund atm with his cv doesn't even worth €40m. With a much more proven goals scoring record Lukaku reportedly worth about €50m. The striker market is surely dire, but only for the top proven ones. The average ones? Well not that dire imo.

We're ready to pay let's say €40m + €20m because we really need a striker and we think he has potential. That's a fair deal imo and I'm pretty sure Atalanta would find plenty options to replace him. Or they don't even need to since they already have two. They're a bit old but surely enough for them for at least the next season. Then they could buy Elanga from us for example. Imo Elanga would do pretty well there as any attacker with some good pace and average at everthing else. Then change his name to Hojlanga and ask us for another €60m.

Joking aside it's not that hard to find an average striker. The current Hojlund is average. He might turn into a good one though but nobody can be sure of that. That's why there are the add ons. You pay cash for the current ability of the player. Then a bit cash and add ons for his potential. Nobody pay all cash for a young kid that none can be sure about. That's how it works here mate.

Hojlanga!
:lol:
 
Nice trick. Remove obvious answer.
There are bloody hundreds strikers around. Young and old. Cheap and expensive. If our striker shortlist for this summer were only Kane and Hojlund then we really deserve to be fleeced. Again.
Are there ? So why are at least a dozen major European clubs not buying them? Literally loads of clubs seeking a striker, surely not all those clubs have a shambles of a scouting team?
 
It’s interesting people want to say there are loads of strikers, but can’t name any as they aren’t scouts
 
My only concerns with him are the goal return,however he will have better players around him and maybe his control of the ball

He is also just 20 right now. It would be unrealistic to expect him to shoulder the entire burden of missing goals from the last season. He would be a signing more from the long term point. In a world of unlimited money, we should ideally get a more experienced striker as well to complement him. But less likelihood of that happening.
 
He is also just 20 right now. It would be unrealistic to expect him to shoulder the entire burden of missing goals from the last season. He would be a signing more from the long term point. In a world of unlimited money, we should ideally get a more experienced striker as well to complement him. But less likelihood of that happening.

my one for thoughts would be to see if we could pinch lacazette on a cheap fee, 32, can play a more deep role, played here, could we get him for 20-25m?
 
Likely true but in the limited data you do have:

Against teams in the top 8 in Serie A (league and cup): 12 appearances, 1 goal and 2 assists.

Against teams in the bottom 12 in Serie A (league and cup): 22 appearances, 9 goals and 2 assists.

Internationally, he has lit up Finland (54th in world FIFA rankings) and Kazakhstan (104th) while not scoring, in very limited minutes, against Croatia and France.

I wouldn't hold any of this too strongly against him (he's very young after all) but there are real questions about his ability to do the business against Premier League defenders, which on the whole are a lot more like those at the top 8 sides in Italy than those in the bottom 12 sides.

This is such a weird argument to make honestly. A flat track bully would do extremely nicely for us. We can always switch to a counter attacking game against strong opposition, with Rashford & Bruno leading the charge. This team is actually quite decent at that actually. What we really lack is a sword that can consistently slay the weaker teams.
 
Are there ? So why are at least a dozen major European clubs not buying them? Literally loads of clubs seeking a striker, surely not all those clubs have a shambles of a scouting team?
This thread goes in the same way as Antony thread last year. And De Jong. And Sancho year before. And AWB when we needed right back. People go crazy over some linked player and start claiming that market for certain position is dire, that there are no similiar players out there and that we should pay whatever for that player. For Hojlund is even more stranger because i bet that most of United fans didn't watch a single Atalanta game to make opinion about him. But all of sudden he is THE one. Lets go all in for him.
And then soon people are shocked about FFP and limited budget; "How? How is it possible that we don't have money to spend? Impossible".

I am not claiming that we have shit scouting team. Quite opposite. And that is why i doubt that our striker shortlist are only Hojlund and Kane.
 
We have a 30M euros difference in valuation during negotiations right now. Get comfortable folks, we camping in here for some time here. I dont see this getting done in the next 15 days, and I dont see us making any other signings during this time either(for obvious reasons).
 
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