[Albin Johansson]

I gotta say I believe he has the potential of becoming a 20+ goals a season striker. With that said, I get so freckin frustrated seeing him failing with the first touch with his back facing the opponents goal. Adding to that, he falls all the fecking time. Has to improve that, otherwise he'll end up a poor man's welbeck.

 

[Gandalf]

Problem is he doesn't score goals and his movement is crap.

Your standards are too low.

He scores 1 in 3 which is not terrible for a young player and frankly you know the square root of feck all about my standards.

 

[Zlatan 7]

He also ran the channels tirelessly and occupied VVD and Konate for large periods of the game creating acres of space for his teammates but that sort of dirty work does not show up in stats. There are plenty of ways to be involved in a game and add value to a team performance but modern football fans judge everything from spreadsheets.

£70 mil for someone to run channels is wild. He’s not good enough to score regularly for us, we’re crying out for a top striker. And as I always say, it’s not hojlunds fault he’s in the position he is, it’s the clubs. He can’t help not being good enough even if it’s a yet

 

[astracrazy]

I still think he can come good, he has the right attitude and has the attributes, the team has been in pretty shoddy form this season especially with regards to chance creation. If Amorim can get his system to work and he ends up missing chance after chance, then yeah at that point i will write him off.

This is just a rinse and repeat excuse from last season I'm afraid and it didn't wash then and certainly doesn't now. He has all the attributes, the service is the problem....

At some point you have to realise the lack of creation, with respect to him, is because of him. His movement is piss poor and always has been.

There is always either a better option than him, or we lose the ball because we get into a position then he does nothing (Martinez yesterday is a great example).

Even Rashford and Zirkzee have had more shots than him.

 

[The Serpent]

He also ran the channels tirelessly and occupied VVD and Konate for large periods of the game creating acres of space for his teammates but that sort of dirty work does not show up in stats. There are plenty of ways to be involved in a game and add value to a team performance but modern football fans judge everything from spreadsheets.

Incredible he ran into channels and did donkey work, 72 million well spent. Didn't weghorst use to do this and pretty much everyone accepted he was not good enough. The clutching at straws to find ways to justifying this dude is incredible.

The bottom line is we need to get rid of this guy, he's not a prodigy and he's not good enough for the premiership, hence why he has not ever scored against a big team and why he always looks out of his depth against competent defenders. Maguire and mctominay offer more in offence than him, he is pretty much useless aerially, poor technique, weak af even though he looks like a tank which makes people believe he's strong and terrible killer instincts

Dalot whipped in a cross where there was acres of space and only Amad was on the end of it why Hojlund was occupying VVD and Konate, I guess that's why we paid 72 million so he can occupy and wrestle with defenders instead of doing the actual job of a striker and be at the end of chances

 

[Gandalf]

£70 mil for someone to run channels is wild. He’s not good enough to score regularly for us, we’re crying out for a top striker. And as I always say, it’s not hojlunds fault he’s in the position he is, it’s the clubs. He can’t help not being good enough even if it’s a yet

The fee was a huge mistake and is sadly going to be a stick to beat him with for years to come. Atalanta paid 20M Euros for him and were developing him as one for the future so our scouts identified him as someone we might be able to get for 30M to 35m after his first season in Italy. Erik was looking at him as a developmental signing to pair with a senior striker with his dream being Kane as unlikely as that seemed. Somehow the Glazers screwed the pooch on the senior striker part of that equation, what a surprise, and so it was just Rasmus. Once PSG declared their interest and with Atalanta not that interested in moving him on the price started to skyrocket, once it hit 50M we should have dipped out and left him in Italy to continue his progress and moved on but as with Antony and other deals from our recent past, once we decided we wanted someone we refused to drop out no matter how silly the fee got.

We hugely overpaid and that is not his fault, he is not ready to lead the line for a club like ours yet and he may well never be. Certainly he has promise and does some things very well but as is typical of signings over the last 10 years, we have actually seen him regress instread of kick on and it is clear at the moment that he is unsure of his role in the team and badly needs someone ahead of him that he can play understudy too. I hope Amorim and his coaches can simplify the game for him as a lot of his issues in game seem to stem from indecision which is not surprising when we are so inconsistent in attack.

 

[Zlatan 7]

The fee was a huge mistake and is sadly going to be a stick to beat him with for years to come. Atalanta paid 20M Euros for him and were developing him as one for the future so our scouts identified him as someone we might be able to get for 30M to 35m after his first season in Italy. Erik was looking at him as a developmental signing to pair with a senior striker with his dream being Kane as unlikely as that seemed. Somehow the Glazers screwed the pooch on the senior striker part of that equation, what a surprise, and so it was just Rasmus. Once PSG declared their interest and with Atalanta not that interested in moving him on the price started to skyrocket, once it hit 50M we should have dipped out and left him in Italy to continue his progress and moved on but as with Antony and other deals from our recent past, once we decided we wanted someone we refused to drop out no matter how silly the fee got.

We hugely overpaid and that is not his fault, he is not ready to lead the line for a club like ours yet and he may well never be. Certainly he has promise and does some things very well but as is typical of signings over the last 10 years, we have actually seen him regress instread of kick on and it is clear at the moment that he is unsure of his role in the team and badly needs someone ahead of him that he can play understudy too. I hope Amorim and his coaches can simplify the game for him as a lot of his issues in game seem to stem from indecision which is not surprising when we are so inconsistent in attack.

Fair post I agree with to be honest

 

[Gandalf]

Incredible he ran into channels and did donkey work, 72 million well spent. Didn't weghorst use to do this and pretty much everyone accepted he was not good enough. The clutching at straws to find ways to justifying this dude is incredible.

The bottom line is we need to get rid of this guy, he's not a prodigy and he's not good enough for the premiership, hence why he has not ever scored against a big team and why he always looks out of his depth against competent defenders. Maguire and mctominay offer more in offence than him, he is pretty much useless aerially, poor technique, weak af even though he looks like a tank which makes people believe he's strong and terrible killer instincts

Dalot whipped in a cross where there was acres of space and only Amad was on the end of it why Hojlund was occupying VVD and Konate, I guess that's why we paid 72 million so he can occupy and wrestle with defenders instead of doing the actual job of a striker and be at the end of chances

Oh you again.

Never said the bolded so not sure where you get that from. Sure Weghorst did the donkey work too but he didn't score 23 goals for the club so your comparison is meaningless.

If you could read and comprehend, clearly something far beyond your capabilities, you would see I was responding to a comment about touches in a game and making the point that stats don't tell you much without context. Strikers frequently don't touch the ball more than a handful of times in a game but it is not the determining factor in how well they have played.

 

[The Serpent]

Oh you again.

Never said the bolded so not sure where you get that from. Sure Weghorst did the donkey work too but he didn't score 23 goals for the club so your comparison is meaningless.

If you could read and comprehend, clearly something far beyond your capabilities, you would see I was responding to a comment about touches in a game and making the point that stats don't tell you much without context. Strikers frequently don't touch the ball more than a handful of times in a game but it is not the determining factor in how well they have played.

I suggest you take care to read back your own posts to understand what you were implying buddy. You said modern fans only see spreadsheets. Weghorst didn't have 2 seasons at the club he was a winter loan and was far more involved and nuisance than Hojlund and here you are contradicting yourself talking about people only looking at spreadsheets, while you ignore the work did Weghorst did without padding his stats against lesser opposition

You are right strikers don't have to touch the ball, but quality strikers when they touch the ball don't fall down or their touch is rebounding the ball like they're wearing timberland boots.

You are happy for our main striker to run channels and occupy defenders while not scoring or being a focal point to do anything when chances are presented to him. I'm not a modern fan, I've been watching football since the 90's so I know when I see a quality striker or someone with good to great potential. So you can't be addressing me because I've seen the likes of Vieiri, Crespo, Adriano, Trezeguit, David Villa, Torres to Benzema Ageuro, and even our own Mason Greenwood and rooney doing bits even younger than this fraud

You can clutch and clutch as much as you like but I will be proven right in time, every game he starts you can claim he passed the ball to create a chance or made a good run down the channel or he's only 21, when he's literally going to be 22 in less than 30 days but it will never be good enough for the standards we are hoping to achieve. My advice to you is don't bother trying to get into a debate with me because it won't end well.

 

[TempusFugit]

I'm worried about is how easily he gets knocked down. As a supposedly physical striker he's somehow always on his backside, the slightest push/shove and he's tumbling down, losing possession. It's a big issue as it means we can't get the ball up the pitch through him. We mostly rely on long balls when pressed really high and he struggles at hold up play. Zirkzee looks three times stronger than him and he's hardly a powerhouse himself.

 

[Gandalf]

I suggest you take care to read back your own posts to understand what you were implying buddy. You said modern fans only see spreadsheets. Weghorst didn't have 2 seasons at the club he was a winter loan and was far more involved and nuisance than Hojlund and here you are contradicting yourself talking about people only looking at spreadsheets, while you ignore the work did Weghorst did without padding his stats against lesser opposition

You are right strikers don't have to touch the ball, but quality strikers when they touch the ball don't fall down or their touch is rebounding the ball like they're wearing timberland boots.

You are happy for our main striker to run channels and occupy defenders while not scoring or being a focal point to do anything when chances are presented to him. I'm not a modern fan, I've been watching football since the 90's so I know when I see a quality striker or someone with good to great potential. So you can't be addressing me because I've seen the likes of Vieiri, Crespo, Adriano, Trezeguit, David Villa, Torres to Benzema Ageuro, and even our own Mason Greenwood and rooney doing bits even younger than this fraud

You can clutch and clutch as much as you like but I will be proven right in time, every game he starts you can claim he passed the ball to create a chance or made a good run down the channel or he's only 21, when he's literally going to be 22 in less than 30 days but it will never be good enough for the standards we are hoping to achieve. My advice to you is don't bother trying to get into a debate with me because it won't end well.

Ooh your hard, I am quaking in my boots!

Four paragraphs of twisting what I said or just flat out putting words in my mouth that I never said is your level of debate, my 6 month old granddaughter could beat that. I am waiting for you to be proven right about Joe Hugill, shall we check back on your bold comments there every few months?

 

[Fortitude]

Ok, guys cut out the hen-pecking.

 

[Gandalf]

Ok, guys cut out the hen-pecking.

Sorry bout that

 

[dubplate warrior]

He scores 1 in 3 which is not terrible for a young player and frankly you know the square root of feck all about my standards.

The signs ain't good lad.

What's his rate like in the Premier League?

 

[Fortitude]

Sorry bout that

Nothing to be sorry about, but you’ve both said your piece and it’s pretty clear the devolution stage is upon both of you, which is the time to disengage.

 

[Rajma]

I’m on the fence if he should get another season, leaning towards selling him right now but still depends how he performs for the reminder of the season.

 

[stevoc]

Between Hojlund and Zirkzee I think we should steer clear of buying Strikers from Italy for a while.

 

[marcus agrippa]

He also ran the channels tirelessly and occupied VVD and Konate for large periods of the game creating acres of space for his teammates but that sort of dirty work does not show up in stats. There are plenty of ways to be involved in a game and add value to a team performance but modern football fans judge everything from spreadsheets.

"Silent domination".

 

[Gandalf]

The signs ain't good lad.

What's his rate like in the Premier League?

Was 1 in 3 last season but definitely worse than that now, only 2 league goals this season so that average is getting close to 1 in 4 in the league.

He has clearly regressed since joining us and getting hurt in pre season did not help as we were already in crisis once he started playing and his confidence seems to have taken a battering, this is most noticable in his decision making where he is becoming increasingly hesitant and second guessing himself. I would be the first to admit he needs a spell out of the team and we badly need a proven striker to lead the line that he can hopefully learn from, I just don't buy the idea that we should give up on him yet.

 

[Vidooq]

Problem is he doesn't score goals and his movement is crap.

Your standards are too low.

The funny things is that when he first came, he made all the right run ins, but almost never got the ball. Now when some service is there for him and we dont have wingers that want to cut in and shoot at all costs, he makes all the wrong movements.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Was 1 in 3 last season but definitely worse than that now, only 2 league goals this season so that average is getting close to 1 in 4 in the league.

He has clearly regressed since joining us and getting hurt in pre season did not help as we were already in crisis once he started playing and his confidence seems to have taken a battering, this is most noticable in his decision making where he is becoming increasingly hesitant and second guessing himself. I would be the first to admit he needs a spell out of the team and we badly need a proven striker to lead the line that he can hopefully learn from, I just don't buy the idea that we should give up on him yet.

I don't think he's regressed, I think it's just his level. He doesn't score a lot and his general play is awful.

He's got a poor first touch, isn't clinical, has really, really poor movement and is deceptively weak, his balance is really poor and he tends to be quite flat footed when receiving the ball which is why he's always falling over.

 

[Gandalf]

I don't think he's regressed, I think it's just his level. He doesn't score a lot and his general play is awful.

He's got a poor first touch, isn't clinical, has really, really poor movement and is deceptively weak, his balance is really poor and he tends to be quite flat footed when receiving the ball which is why he's always falling over.

Well I disagree with a lot of that. His shot conversion rate certainly would dispute the isn't clinical comment and that has been his greatest strength so far, that he generally buries chances when he gets them. His issue has been how rarely he gets those chances and ymmv as to whether that is a function of the team set up or his overall play. Certainly I was surprised he didn't bury that chance in the first half yesterday as he has been generally very good when one on one.

His balance issues are weird I agree. I cannot think of another player like him in that regard and I don't know how you address that with coaching as it is so peculiar to him. His touch is variable, he frustrates because he can take a ball beautifully on the turn in one instance and then moments later he looks like he has cement boots but the flat footedness I put down more to the issue of lack of cohesion in our team play as it has become more of an issue the longer he has been here and that seems to track with our lack of a recognizable pattern of play.

Overall I clearly see more promise in him than you do and I doubt I can persuade you to my point of view. Time will prove one of us right and for the sake of the club I hope it is me.

 

[marcus agrippa]

Overall I clearly see more promise in him than you do and I doubt I can persuade you to my point of view. Time will prove one of us right and for the sake of the club I hope it is me.

Hopefully not too long. Problem at this club is sticking with players who aren't working, and thinking time magically fixes things. Hopefully Berrada sticks to his word of two years max. Hojlund's still young enough that we can recoup some of our initial outlay.

 

[tomaldinho1]

You keep saying it's a myth doesn't make it one. I understand your point, but if you go back and look at the video from the last game (I think it's a page back or two in this thread), you’ll see a instance where Hojlund could have been much better. This is something I’ve noticed throughout his career with us, and it’s not just one isolated incident.

To get on the end of those crosses you’re referring to, a striker needs to be in the right place at the right time. And from what I've observed, Hojlund often isn't there because his movement doesn’t consistently put him in those positions.

Additionally, the stats show that he has the fewest shots of all the main strikers in the league, and in my opinion, that’s more about his own positioning and movement than it is about the support or quality of service from his teammates, they can't pass if no one is there. What I am saying is that I don't think he is ready yet to lead the line at a club like ours and you do, let's agree to disagree.

All I can see is something that's been copyright blocked and then a debate to whether it is him or Bruno's fault beneath. The reason I call it a myth is no one ever produces anything tangible on it, I'm more than happy to analyse these things, it's actually interesting compared to half the forum who seem to just hammer the x, y or z player is crap or great drum every week.

Re fewest shots, in isolation that doesn't really mean much? It certainly would have no indication of what you are saying. You could go and compare CF's touch count and heat maps, it would be basic but it would give an actual indicator of what you are saying. fewest shots on its own simply means, no surprise, that he shoots the least. I'd wager if you worked out the % of on target and scored though, he wouldn't be last?

 

[Gandalf]

Hopefully not too long. Problem at this club is sticking with players who aren't working, and thinking time magically fixes things. Hopefully Berrada sticks to his word of two years max. Hojlund's still young enough that we can recoup some of our initial outlay.

I think Gyokeres is nailed on to come in the summer and so the second half of this season is essentially an audition for the backup spot. If Amorim and his staff can kick start his development then it makes sense to keep him as the understudy but if his season continues on the same trajectory as it has in recent weeks then he is probably going to be moved on.

 

[marcus agrippa]

All I can see is something that's been copyright blocked and then a debate to whether it is him or Bruno's fault beneath. The reason I call it a myth is no one ever produces anything tangible on it, I'm more than happy to analyse these things, it's actually interesting compared to half the forum who seem to just hammer the x, y or z player is crap or great drum every week.

It's that one where Bruno crosses it expecting a near post dart, but Hojlund just keeps running straight, and van Dijk clears it easily.

That's 100% on Hojlund. You don't beat an elite defender like VVD being that basic. VVD only glanced once to find him ages before the cross came in, and knew all he had to do was track the ball.

 

[The Serpent]

Ooh your hard, I am quaking in my boots!

Four paragraphs of twisting what I said or just flat out putting words in my mouth that I never said is your level of debate, my 6 month old granddaughter could beat that. I am waiting for you to be proven right about Joe Hugill, shall we check back on your bold comments there every few months?

I don't need to be proven right about Hugil. He's just an example to show you and Hojlund stans that any old academy striker could do the same job Hojlund is doing and probably more. throw in any of promising academy players from bygone years from Wellbeck, Angelo Henriquez, to Will Keane to Giuseppe Rossi, and they will do more or the same as what Hojlund is producing if not more and they were all moved on for not being the required standard for this club. That is my point. You have to dive down into the bottom drenches of the barrel to seek the basic promising signs which is what you can find in even championship level srikers.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It's that one where Bruno crosses it expecting a near post dart, but Hojlund just keeps running straight, and van Dijk clears it easily.

That's 100% on Hojlund. You don't beat an elite defender like VVD being that basic. VVD only glanced once to find him ages before the cross came in, and knew all he had to do was track the ball.

I thought the poster was talking about Newcastle? Either way, do you have clip?

 

[astracrazy]

Was 1 in 3 last season but definitely worse than that now, only 2 league goals this season so that average is getting close to 1 in 4 in the league.

He has clearly regressed since joining us and getting hurt in pre season did not help as we were already in crisis once he started playing and his confidence seems to have taken a battering, this is most noticable in his decision making where he is becoming increasingly hesitant and second guessing himself. I would be the first to admit he needs a spell out of the team and we badly need a proven striker to lead the line that he can hopefully learn from, I just don't buy the idea that we should give up on him yet.

Has he really? Because he was a 1 in 3 at Atlanta. I'd say we got what we brought.

 

[Doracle]

I’m on the fence if he should get another season, leaning towards selling him right now but still depends how he performs for the reminder of the season.

I’m heavily critical of his apparent ability but selling a 21 year old striker we paid a massive amount for is definitely the wrong call. It’s just writing off a load of money and taking the risk that something then does click and we’ve lost any chance of benefiting.

The correct call is to loan him out. We lose absolutely nothing by doing so. He would have to be truly terrible to lower his value further and there’s a decent chance he can improve his reputation in a weaker league. He has plenty of time left on his contract and we re-assess in a year or two whether he’s found something worth retaining or then sell.

 

[Denis79]

All I can see is something that's been copyright blocked and then a debate to whether it is him or Bruno's fault beneath. The reason I call it a myth is no one ever produces anything tangible on it, I'm more than happy to analyse these things, it's actually interesting compared to half the forum who seem to just hammer the x, y or z player is crap or great drum every week.

Re fewest shots, in isolation that doesn't really mean much? It certainly would have no indication of what you are saying. You could go and compare CF's touch count and heat maps, it would be basic but it would give an actual indicator of what you are saying. fewest shots on its own simply means, no surprise, that he shoots the least. I'd wager if you worked out the % of on target and scored though, he wouldn't be last?

It's unfortunate that the video has been removed, as it clearly highlighted what I am talking about. A similar situation occurred just a few games ago when Dalot cut inside toward the penalty area. Instead of making a run toward the goal, Hojlund ran towards Dalot, and the opportunity was ultimately lost. Perhaps someone here can recall which game it was, Newcastle or Wolves?

 

[Gandalf]

Has he really? Because he was a 1 in 3 at Atlanta. I'd say we got what we brought.

I would say he has based on watching him last season to now. We certainly have not developed him which is a bit of an indictment of our coaching that we could not improve a player we bought at 20 years old and honestly if you compare where he was at this point last season to where he is now he has regressed, a lot of that could be down to confidence though.

 

[dubplate warrior]

I’m heavily critical of his apparent ability but selling a 21 year old striker we paid a massive amount for is definitely the wrong call. It’s just writing off a load of money and taking the risk that something then does click and we’ve lost any chance of benefiting.

The correct call is to loan him out. We lose absolutely nothing by doing so. He would have to be truly terrible to lower his value further and there’s a decent chance he can improve his reputation in a weaker league. He has plenty of time left on his contract and we re-assess in a year or two whether he’s found something worth retaining or then sell.

its time we move players on that can't show enough after two years. Just because he's young doesn't mean we have to keep him.

 

[rockhopperpenguin21]

Just saying, Andy Cole didn't get proficient until Dwight Yorke arrived. He's what we have. See how it goes for the rest of the season in a consistent 11 who are used to the system (and try).

 

[dubplate warrior]

Just saying, Andy Cole didn't get proficient until Dwight Yorke arrived. He's what we have. See how it goes for the rest of the season in a consistent 11 who are used to the system (and try).

Andy Cole was one already one of the best strikers in the league. He was mashing work at Newcastle. There was never any doubt about his abilities as a player.

I don't get it with Ten Hag, he managed Ajax, but most of the players he signed have a tackle for a second touch.

 

[Denis79]

Just saying, Andy Cole didn't get proficient until Dwight Yorke arrived. He's what we have. See how it goes for the rest of the season in a consistent 11 who are used to the system (and try).

Andy Cole won the Golden Boot the season before he joined us.

 

[A-man]

He scores 1 in 3 which is not terrible for a young player and frankly you know the square root of feck all about my standards.

Our starting striker has scored 2 goals in half a season which I believe is terrible by most standards.

 

[marcus agrippa]

I thought the poster was talking about Newcastle? Either way, do you have clip?

This is the best I could do. Around the 1:10 mark. Unfortunately, it doesn't show the full run from outside the box (with the VVD scan), just the cross.



Funny thing is, I've seen clips of him (before we signed him) make jinking runs to wrongfoot defenders, then arrive near-post. Like Neville said, unless you miss him out somehow, you're rarely getting anything out of Liverpool with VVD in the way. That's the level you need to be at as a United striker.

 

[marcus agrippa]

I would say he has based on watching him last season to now. We certainly have not developed him which is a bit of an indictment of our coaching that we could not improve a player we bought at 20 years old and honestly if you compare where he was at this point last season to where he is now he has regressed, a lot of that could be down to confidence though.

I'm one of his biggest critics, but there's something in this. Like I said above, I've seen his movement be much better in clips from Serie A. Somehow, that's gone away. He needs to go back to basics to give himself a chance. But as it stands, things look bleak.

Also, was it just me or was Martinez's finish from a similar position more like a striker's than Hojlund? Would speak to a lack of confidence.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I'm one of his biggest critics, but there's something in this. Like I said above, I've seen his movement be much better in clips from Serie A. Somehow, that's gone away. He needs to go back to basics to give himself a chance. But as it stands, things look bleak.

Also, was it just me or was Martinez's finish from a similar position more like a striker's than Hojlund? Would speak to a lack of confidence.

Oh you could see as soon as he was put through on goal that he wasn't confident. Same way with Zirkzee at the death. It's a huge fecking issue for both right now