Rashford as a CF (11g & 5a in 18 games in 22/23)

MadMike

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It's regularly being repeated on this forum and elsewhere that Rashford is better as a left forward or winger, rather than a centre forward. And as recently as December 2022, Rashford himself said that left wing is his preferred position. But as the season rumbled on and we were hit with Martial's absences and Weghorst's inability, Rashford started getting more games centrally. And he did well. So while the assumption that he's a better winger was certainly the case earlier in his career, I'm beginning to have doubts that it still holds true in 2022/23. After all, players change over time and the tale of a winger evolving into a central striker is probably as old as football. Henry, Van Persie, Ronaldo, Griezmann... the list goes on.

It might be a surprise to some but Rashford started 18 games as a striker this season. And he's done remarkably well for it.
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He scored 11 goals and produced 5 assists in 18 appearances, or 15 full games across all competitions (if you want to check the games for yourselves 1 by 1, click the link). He has in fact been more productive individually from a central position this season.

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DISCLAIMER: These stats are based on starting positions and are subject to some margin of error, on either direction, as player positions change during the game. It's not 100% accurate, but it's also not biased in any particular way.

Playstyle wise, we all know he is a direct player who likes to face the goal, take players on (with.. various degrees of success), try long range shots, play on the shoulder of the defenders and beat the offside trap with pace. Even when playing centrally he likes to drift left for better angles on his right foot. A thing of note however is that he has also improved on his heading scoring 4 headed goals this season . He had only scored 5 headed goals in his whole career up until the start of this season, averaging less than 1 per season.
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He's definitely not the best at playing back to goal, holding the ball up and bringing others into play. Though not all strikers play that way. There's nothing in his playstyle that makes it prohibitive or counter-productive to use him centrally.

If we were to switch Rashford centrally it would have a big impact on our transfer strategy. It's not about whether we need another striker, which given Martial's state we absolutely do, but more about what kind of a striker we need. Instead of betting the whole house on a marquee signing like Kane or Osimhen, we could instead sign someone younger to be second fiddle to Rashford. Someone like Højlund, Ferguson, Goncalo Ramos etc. That would give them time to adapt to the league and team, without the immense pressure of delivering a lot of goals from the start. It might also dictate what qualities we need on the striker, maybe someone that complements Rashford by having as strengths Rashford's weakness.

More importantly however, Rashford becoming a central striker needs to be for the benefit of the team. We need to improve our total output in goals significantly. Currently Rashford is contributing a lot from the wing, while we have very little output from the #9 position. So it seems natural thinking that buying a good #9 that can add 20-25 goals, we would easily increase our total goals. Switching Rashford centrally would "fix" the problem with our striker not scoring goals, but it seems like shifting the problem from the striker position to the wings. Unfortunately, neither Sancho nor Antony have been as productive as we hoped. Garnacho had a breakthrough season and that helped a bit. Pellistri and Elanga not done enough to be here next season. Amad will probably return from loan and get the opportunities that were given to the latter two. So the question then becomes if Antony, Sancho, Garnacho & Amad can find 20-25 goals, more between them. Or about 5-6 goals more each. Do we have that faith with our other wingers?

What do you think Caf?
 
His off the ball running into space is world class, he also seems to beat the offside trap often but I’m not convinced by his play with the back to the goal in a crowded penalty area which is something we will often face when we get better and getter as a team.

But at the moment he is undoubtedly our best center forward and him moving there would free up space for Garnacho.
 
I think he played CF for parts of game - same way he played RW when him and Antony swapped.

I think he's got one major flaw as a CF - which is that he can't turn with the ball. He's strong, has a good touch but with the way we play we need a CF who can receive the ball facing his own goal and then immediately turn to face the opposite goal. Rashford doesn't have that sort of 360 awareness or just isn't comfortable doing that.
 
Don't like him there at all. He can do a job and bag goals at an acceptable rate (thank God, cause we'd have been fecked this year if he couldn't) but his overall game there is poor. I want him to be 3rd choice there.
 
He's shit as cf

A player who had 11 goals & 5 assists from the CF position in 1350 mins of football (15 full games) is a shit CF?

His goals per 90' from CF position (0.73) is only worse to Kane and Haaland. And that's despite not taking pens.
 
He had a two month period where he could play anywhere and get goals. Once his purple patch ended all of a sudden he didn't look that great as a striker anymore.

Rashford can play 30-40% of games as a striker and be effective but most teams just won't give him the space he needs in order to play up front.
 
Thing is, he's such a threat from the left I think the feeling is if we get a good CF, it gives us two legit threats and still have options like Garnacho, Sancho and Antony.
 
He's shit as cf

Remarkable insight.

Anyway. I like him centrally and I think he’s done a better job this season at it under Ten Hag than he has in the past too. The one thing he lacks is holding the ball up with his back to goal which isn’t ideal as a lone striker.
 
Don't like him there at all. He can do a job and bag goals at an acceptable rate (thank God, cause we'd have been fecked this year if he couldn't) but his overall game there is poor. I want him to be 3rd choice there.

I think "acceptable rate" is a massive understatement. It's a small sample, 18 games 1350 mins, but his goal rate is comparable to Kane from that position.

Every player has his strengths and weaknesses. Kane for example has better hold-up play and link up, he can basically play as a #10. But on the other hand he cannot run on the shoulder of defenders like Rashford does. That doesn't make him a poor striker though.
 
Good work, doesn't agree with the eye test as I thought he was more productive from the left but one valid point I'd like to make is most of his goals and assists from CF have come from teams who will attack us where some features such as hold up play, playing with back to goal etc isn't as important as his off the ball runs and ability to get in behind. For him to be a proper CF he needs to improve play with his back to goal and keep improving aerially @MadMike
 
I think "acceptable rate" is understatement. It's a small sample, 18 games 1350 mins, but his goal rate is comparable to Kane.
It's a very small sample and I think it's greatly skewed by the couple months when every time he shot it flew in.
 
That's not counting the games where he played as a striker after the 1st half like against Leeds and Manchester City.
 
That's not counting the games where he played as a striker after the 1st half like against Leeds and Manchester City.

Correct. Although it goes both ways. Some times he started centrally and the moved to the wing in the second half too.
 
Correct. Although it goes both ways. Some times he started centrally and the moved to the wing in the second half too.

Yes, that happened early in the season when he scored against Liverpool and Arsenal.

The last time he scored from wide in the league was against Arsenal away back in January. Also, most of his goals this season came from a central position and very few from his favourite move of cutting in and shooting from the left.
 
Always intrigued in reading your nuanced views and analysis.

Yes just like I am by Rashford fanboys who whenever Rashford plays bad come out with basically Rashford's trademark excuse by this point ' He's playing injured'


A player who had 11 goals & 5 assists from the CF position in 1350 mins of football (15 full games) is a shit CF?

His goals per 90' from CF position (0.73) is only worse to Kane and Haaland. And that's despite not taking pens.

Remarkable insight.

Anyway. I like him centrally and I think he’s done a better job this season at it under Ten Hag than he has in the past too. The one thing he lacks is holding the ball up with his back to goal which isn’t ideal as a lone striker.

He does not have the first touch nor the ability to hold up the ball to play as a CF. The only time he did well as a CF was when the team played on counter.
We've already seen how poor he is as a CF yet some people just don't want this thing to die off. He's best as a LW
 
It always seems like he'll play CF, look terrible and then get moved to the left and grab a goal. I don't think he's a great player anywhere tbh just decent in the right circumstances, but I definitely don't think he should be our CF option.

I do, however, think it's likely he'll be our back-up CF next season as it seems very unlikely we'll spend much with the sale of the club rumbling on. I expect we'll get someone like Ramos or (hopefully) Hojlund and use Marcus as the second choice moving in from the wing when first choice is unavailable.
 
It always seems like he'll play CF, look terrible and then get moved to the left and grab a goal. I don't think he's a great player anywhere tbh just decent in the right circumstances, but I definitely don't think he should be our CF option.

I do, however, think it's likely he'll be our back-up CF next season as it seems very unlikely we'll spend much with the sale of the club rumbling on. I expect we'll get someone like Ramos or (hopefully) Hojlund and use Marcus as the second choice moving in from the wing when first choice is unavailable.

Surely he's proven he's really effective on the left? More than one season of great, match winning performances and vital goals with periods where his effectiveness has carried the team?
 
He’s definitely the best CF we have but that’s not saying much really. Bruno would also be the best CF if he played false 9 and adapted his game.

We have easily one of the worst attacking line ups ever in my time as a United fan. Probably the worst thinking back.

Apart from Rashford / Garnacho (a kid) none of them can score goals or give assists regularly.
 
Nope. Still not a striker.

Don’t know why people can’t move on. He’s always been poor with back to goal.
 
1. Rashford excels when he has space to run in

2. Rashford struggles when teams sit back and he doesn't have space to attack

As a main ST
Yes just like I am by Rashford fanboys who whenever Rashford plays bad come out with basically Rashford's trademark excuse by this point ' He's playing injured'






He does not have the first touch nor the ability to hold up the ball to play as a CF. The only time he did well as a CF was when the team played on counter.
We've already seen how poor he is as a CF yet some people just don't want this thing to die off. He's best as a LW
I don't always agree with you but you're not wrong here IMO
 
Always intrigued in reading your nuanced views and analysis.
He’s right. He’s poor at doing ‘centre forward things’. Nobody looks at Rashford and thinks I wish he was in the packed central areas more. It’s always, finds an empty pocket / space on the counter and use your pace to get a shot away. Neither gives you the hold up play of Drogba / peak RVP, instinct of RVN or ability in close quarters as Aguero.

He needs space to use his pace as excelling in tight areas have never been his strength. Hence - not a 9.
 
There were definitely two or three goals earlier in the season where he started up front but didn't score until he moved over to the left. However, I also believe there was one goal early in the season and two goals late in the season where it was the other way around - he started on the left but didn't score until he moved to striker. What I'm not sure about is in the middle part of the season which is when he was actually scoring most of his goals, I wasn't taking note of it at that point.

Rashford spent the last few years being absolutely terrible when played as a striker. He improved a fair bit this season, but his all-round game is still fairly poor when playing there. He makes it much harder to hold possession and release pressure when the opposition are attacking, as he is very poor at winning long balls out from our defence and holding the ball up. As others have said, basically anything he is expected to do with his back to goal. His entire game seems to be just about running in behind the defenders over and over again, trying to beat the offside trap. What he did seem to improve on this season is his movement when we are maintaining possession and playing the ball around the opposition box.

That improvement means I'm ok with him being our back-up striker (alongside Martial who we won't be able to sell), but still don't see him as capable of being our main striker.
 
He’s right. He’s poor at doing ‘centre forward things’. Nobody looks at Rashford and thinks I wish he was in the packed central areas more. It’s always, finds an empty pocket / space on the counter and use your pace to get a shot away. Neither gives you the hold up play of Drogba / peak RVP, instinct of RVN or ability in close quarters as Aguero.

He needs space to use his pace as excelling in tight areas have never been his strength. Hence - not a 9.

I'm not saying he's a CF - he's definitely at his best as a LW. Although 11 goals and 5 assists in 17 starts as a CF shows that he can help out there too.

I just think it's amusing when some people seem to have two options when describing a player. Great or shit. Like there's nothing in between.
 
His passing and playmaking is massively underrated. In a front 3 with Rashford as CF and Garnacho/Antony/Amad/Sancho all making runs off him into the box, the attack could get a LOT of goals imho.

Given the exorbitant price for Kane and Osimhen, I can see EtH opting to make Rashford his main central striker and only buying a backup. Otherwise, we'd need to buy 2 strikers and I can't see that happening.
 
I think everyone knows he's weakness is back to goal and hold up play. I even mentioned it in the OP. But for the first time in my life I see the argument "no back to goal = not a striker".

Mbappe doesn't play with back to goal either and he's considered the best striker in the world at the moment. Doesn't seem to be an issue for him.
 
He had a two month period where he could play anywhere and get goals. Once his purple patch ended all of a sudden he didn't look that great as a striker anymore.

Rashford can play 30-40% of games as a striker and be effective but most teams just won't give him the space he needs in order to play up front.

:lol:
 
He’s right. He’s poor at doing ‘centre forward things’. Nobody looks at Rashford and thinks I wish he was in the packed central areas more. It’s always, finds an empty pocket / space on the counter and use your pace to get a shot away. Neither gives you the hold up play of Drogba / peak RVP, instinct of RVN or ability in close quarters as Aguero.

He needs space to use his pace as excelling in tight areas have never been his strength. Hence - not a 9.

Doesn’t make him shit as ST - just doesn’t make it his best position.
 
I forgot to ask him which two month period he thinks the purple patch was and compare it with when he scored the goals as a striker.

Some big 2 month period.

One of it was the World Cup.
 
The only central position Rashford would be goog as is a SS in a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2. As a CF he can still do the job, but is being limited.

He simply needs space to run into, that's why his best performances are usually against either Top6 teams(who don't defend in very compact blocks) or against teams that leave acres of space. That's why he prefers playing on the wing. He simply has more space to maneuver.

This is also another reason why we need someone like Harry Kane/Kolo Muani as opposed to Osimhen. We need a CF who can score, but also play our other forwards in(Antony, Rashford, Garnacho) as they are scorers primarily and creators secondarily.
 
His passing and playmaking is massively underrated.

I think it's actually regressed in the last couple of seasons. His crossing in particular improved by leaps and bounds under Solskjaer, especially in 2020/21 - I remember a bunch of delicious assists for Cavani in particular.

Barely seen any of it since then, though - I guess we can cut him some slack this year considering the options in the box were usually Martial (very rarely makes those near-post runs) and Weghorst (very rarely does anything useful in the box), hopefully having someone with anything close to Cavani's movement will bring that side of Rashford's game back.
 
I'd be interested to see who those goals were against. We all know that we play a very aggressive transitional counter attack against bigger teams and that Rashford and Bruno are almost the perfect players in this regard.
 
I'm not saying he's a CF - he's definitely at his best as a LW. Although 11 goals and 5 assists in 17 starts as a CF shows that he can help out there too.

I have to say though, his ball retention and decision making is not the best for a LW. In my eyes he's a clearly a forward playing on the wing. He attempts a lot of shots & take ons when there's better options, he's a bit selfish and his link up play in tight areas is not the best. For example compared to Grealish or Martinelli or Sancho, he's a very different kinda player.

I think everyone recognises those differences between the players and the weaknesses Rashford has a winger. Yet no one says he's not a winger because of some weaknesses in his wing play, he clearly delivers from there. So I don't understand why he's not a 9, just because his hold up play is poor. He clearly delivers the goods from there too. Not every striker has good hold up play and not every striker can play on the shoulder, or beat players etc. etc. There's isn't 1 type of striker.
 
I'd be interested to see who those goals were against. We all know that we play a very aggressive transitional counter attack against bigger teams and that Rashford and Bruno are almost the perfect players in this regard.

Sheriff (H)
Barcelona (A)
Liverpool (H)
Arsenal (H) x2
Leicester (H) x2
Brentford (H)
Spurs (A)
Charlton (H) x2
 
Sheriff (H)
Barcelona (A)
Liverpool (H)
Arsenal (H) x2
Leicester (H) x2
Brentford (H)
Spurs (A)
Charlton (H) x2
Thank you. Doesn't entirely fit my theory but I knew teams like Barca, Liverpool, and Arsenal would be in there.
 
I’ll look into this more later but yes I’ve floated the idea as well OP, especially considering Kane doesn’t look like he’s leaving this summer and we need a striker. People are too stuck on pre 22-23 Rashford with saying he’s terrible in the middle ( he was). He’s improved massively and is much more instinctual than he used to be as well as actually having a threat on his left foot. He just doesn’t play the position “like a propa numba 9” but in the right composition (having another elite inside forward to dovetail off of) it would be a real option (and the packed box cliche is garbage)

The stats are quite encouraging