Rashford as a CF (11g & 5a in 18 games in 22/23)

Unlike most fans I hold the belief he is the Striker and Martial the LWF.
Rashford as a wide forward is more effective with space to run into and the only position to guarantee that space at all times, unless they choose to hamper their attack and play a low block is CF. Whilst Martial is so inactive without the ball and takes himself out of position, CBs can have a picnic during games.
I think Mourinho playing a young Rashford out wide because he didn’t trust him to lead the line is deep rooted in our minds. Not having a LF is not excuse enough to play a guy there that has no play making/creative abilities. He might have his weakness but he is never had to work on them because we’ve never let him get back to being a CF.

Edit
Why is lack of hold up play never brought up when discussing Mbappe?
 
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The fundamental flaw of this thread/argument are that

1. It isn't a single Manager, but multiple managers' assessment that Rashford isn't a #9, so someone claim he knows better?
2. What the stat said don't represent the full picture. Such as how he performed, how his team mates work around for him.

I recall some games when Fellaini was used as a false #9 to hold the ball and fed to Rashford. I also recall MANY games we were playing pure counter-attack, so no need to hold the ball. JOS replaced VDS as keeper and kept a clean sheet, does that make him a good keeper so he should start as keeper?
 
he's improved a lot a CF that is clear, but he still isn't a specialist 9 which is what we need

I still think he's way better on the left

and lets not forget, the times he played on the left this season he didn't have a proper CF alongside him (unless you can count Martial)
 
cyril C said:
1. It isn't a single Manager, but multiple managers' assessment that Rashford isn't a #9, so someone claim he knows better?
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Only if we're assuming Rashford is the exact same player now that he was under the previous managers and hasn't improved at all. He clearly has.

(And as an aside, literally all of his previous managers before Ten Hag played him as a number 9 at one point or another, anyway - in the case of Ole and Van Gaal, for months at a stretch, when he was still a lanky kid)
 
I just feel his overall game as a striker is not quite where you want it in order to be the first choice striker. He has shown glimpses this season that he has improved as a number 9 but not enough in my opinion. In games where there’s space in behind and he can run in behind the defence he can absolutely play the role, he’s brilliant at them runs.

However, I don’t think he’s good enough with his back against the goal in tight areas and you’d expect teams to be sat back against us in a lot of games. Also, you’d be losing out on his ability to stand and go against a full back and take them on.
 
He's clearly a feasible option up top.

I prefer him out wide, but he's also the best CF at the club currently.
 
Tarrou said:
he's improved a lot a CF that is clear, but he still isn't a specialist 9 which is what we need

I still think he's way better on the left

and lets not forget, the times he played on the left this season he didn't have a proper CF alongside him (unless you can count Martial)
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Yet he had his best season ever. Whereas last year, when he had a striker in Ronaldo who was the focus of the attack (and did well individually) Rashford had an abysmal season.

Maybe because the focus of the attack this season, was him. Weghorst was a bit of a water carrier who mostly tried to help with pressing, holding up the ball and drawing defenders away. The point of him was to create space for Rashford. But that's because Rashford is still a forward playing on the wings. His first instinct is to work himself into a good position to shoot, not to turn provider for someone else. And maybe If we get a central striker who wants to be the focus of the attack, like Osimhen, Rashford's numbers would go down a lot. Because the system would now have to work to get Osimhen in those positions to shoot. And Rashford is not a playmaking LW in the mould of Kvara or Grealish who will draw players away and then pick a great pass into the box. He cannot turn provider for Osimhen with the same frequency as Kvara did.

Maybe we either need to find a forward who drops deep to create space for Rashford (Kane does that a lot for Son for example) or just switch Rashford to CF and get a playmaking LW (or hope Sancho becomes that). Just a theory.
 
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He can be very useful CF for few games but i wouldn't trust him to play as CF entire season. He is much better player as a LW, if we get a CF like Kane then he will get even more space and passes to score more.

Looks like EtH is not completely against the idea of playing him as CF, maybe his hand was forced due to injuries and Weghorst this season as Rashford ended up playing as CF lot.
 
Not a No 9 and will never score the amount of goals we need from a CF. 25-30 premier goals a season is the minimum nowadays from a CF if you want to win it.
 
wolvored said:
Not a No 9 and will never score the amount of goals we need from a CF. 25-30 premier goals a season is the minimum nowadays from a CF if you want to win it.
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I don't think that's true. Robin van Persie was the last striker to win the league and score more than 25 goals before Haaland did it this season.

What you need is a system where goals can come from anywhere unless you have the absolute best striker in the world.
 
Long term, he's not an option at centre forward, but for one off games he's a more than acceptable alternative if other options are not available (or not up to scratch).

Especially for games where we'll have less possession and will be playing on the counter (ie tomorrow!).
 
Idxomer said:
I don't think that's true. Robin van Persie was the last striker to win the league and score more than 25 goals before Haaland did it this season.

What you need is a system where goals can come from anywhere unless you have the absolute best striker in the world.
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We need to up our game then and get another 30+ goals from somewhere.
 
Really interesting topic.
when he was brought into the scene by LVG, he played as striker and often the lone striker. The flaw is clear that he is not the type of the CF good at back to goal. However, he also offers something most CFs don’t have. He has electric quick acceleration and can make the run behind really well. The team can be set up to utilize him in the best way by more efficiently use the other players to open up the space. No. 8 is important, No 6 is also important, and the players to occupy the width. Still remember the assist from Garnacho. We can definitely use Rashford centrally.
 
We need his goals from the left as well as a top striker scoring consistently up front. It doesn't matter if you have Ronaldo. You will always need Rooney.

What we really need is a specialist, out and out striker to be a focal point. Like Sir Alex said "I don't think Rashford is a striker. He operates from the left. "

I'm also sick of us avoiding the obvious thing we've needed for ages now: a young top-level striker that is suited to how we want to play that can hit the ground running and we can invest time into improving further. We've made so many mistakes and short-term signings in that CF position over the years: Falcao, Zlatan, Lukaku, Cavani, Ighalo, Ronaldo, Weghorst...

My personal pick would be Lautaro but will love Hojlund too. Kane would obviously be ideal but as of now we don't have them money for him and Levy don't want to sale. Toney should have been great pick too, but unfortunately that ban changed everything.

Anyway Rashford is not a ruthless finisher, there are weaknesses still not ironed out, including his (frustrating) insistence to finish with power over precision even at very close range, and occasionally poor passing , he needs space, he often can't deal with being crowded around and his back to the goal . He'll do better as left side forward cutting in.
 
It's what I think will happen if we get Hojlund, or the most likely scenario. Hojlund isn't ready to start regularly, Rashford is a very good player in both positions but it depends on opponent. He provides the same qualities and does the same role, it just depends on how we can get the hold up play if not at CF and what our wingers will do. His job has a minor change playing centrally or on the left as the instructions are mostly the same.

Playing against high line teams, rashford can go up top. Especially once we get Onana, we won't be forced to go long every time we are pressed. That will be a huge advantage for Rashford, as he can't deal with long balls. So we can now build up and his lack of hold up play doesn't get exposed. If we are dealing with very fast and strong CBs, it's more suitable to put Rashford wide so that he isn't nullified, and put a stronger CF who can drop deep, hold up, link up better and get those passes to Rashford in behind from the left.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's what I think will happen if we get Hojlund, or the most likely scenario. Hojlund isn't ready to start regularly, Rashford is a very good player in both positions but it depends on opponent. He provides the same qualities and does the same role, it just depends on how we can get the hold up play if not at CF and what our wingers will do. His job has a minor change playing centrally or on the left as the instructions are mostly the same.

Playing against high line teams, rashford can go up top. Especially once we get Onana, we won't be forced to go long every time we are pressed. That will be a huge advantage for Rashford, as he can't deal with long balls. So we can now build up and his lack of hold up play doesn't get exposed. If we are dealing with very fast and strong CBs, it's more suitable to put Rashford wide so that he isn't nullified, and put a stronger CF who can drop deep, hold up, link up better and get those passes to Rashford in behind from the left.
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Martial is seemingly not going anywhere as well.

I think when fit, Martial will start. The other 75% of games, it'll be Hojlund and Rashford splitting the load.
 
KikiDaKats said:
Unlike most fans I hold the belief he is the Striker and Martial the LWF.
Rashford as a wide forward is more effective with space to run into and the only position to guarantee that space at all times, unless they choose to hamper their attack and play a low block is CF. Whilst Martial is so inactive without the ball and takes himself out of position, CBs can have a picnic during games.
I think Mourinho playing a young Rashford out wide because he didn’t trust him to lead the line is deep rooted in our minds. Not having a LF is not excuse enough to play a guy there that has no play making/creative abilities. He might have his weakness but he is never had to work on them because we’ve never let him get back to being a CF.

Edit
Why is lack of hold up play never brought up when discussing Mbappe?
Click to expand...

Because Mbappe is not a striker?
 
Skills said:
Martial is seemingly not going anywhere as well.

I think when fit, Martial will start. The other 75% of games, it'll be Hojlund and Rashford splitting the load.
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97% **. The boy is made from glass
 
Skills said:
Martial is seemingly not going anywhere as well.

I think when fit, Martial will start. The other 75% of games, it'll be Hojlund and Rashford splitting the load.
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Yeah. Not that Martial can do much, but I do think he played injured the last couple of months. He played decently up until that city at home game where he played through an injury. So between the 3 of them, I think it'll be a big improvement on last season. Plus depth at LW with Garnacho improving and Sancho rotating on both wings. It's not too worrying, not title challenging level yet but we do need Hojlund to at least have a good group who can improve.
 
I think he will be better centrally if only he gets to play in a striker partnership
 
While he improved on his goal scoring, his numbers are nothing great.

We probably would need him to score more this season and hope that another striker contributes about 15 odd goals.

If we want a decent chance to challenge for the title, we need a striker who can score 30 goals.
 
I think his main position this season will be CF, with Hojlund (or whoever) only gradually getting more minutes as a squad option.
 
The problem with Rashford as CF is he will quickly lose the confidence and very likely play poor all round even on LW.
Let him move to CF in 60+ minute when there's more space/opposition is chasing and pushing up. Otherwise, don't touch him.
 
Honestly I would rather that ETH changed formation and tried Bruno as a false 9, rather than forcefit Rashford into it permanently.
 
cyril C said:
The fundamental flaw of this thread/argument are that

1. It isn't a single Manager, but multiple managers' assessment that Rashford isn't a #9, so someone claim he knows better?
2. What the stat said don't represent the full picture. Such as how he performed, how his team mates work around for him.

I recall some games when Fellaini was used as a false #9 to hold the ball and fed to Rashford. I also recall MANY games we were playing pure counter-attack, so no need to hold the ball. JOS replaced VDS as keeper and kept a clean sheet, does that make him a good keeper so he should start as keeper?
Click to expand...
Maybe he has gotten better now.. Remember he was a kid back then
 
cpresc said:
All that detailed content in the OP and this was the first reply.. amazing.
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I've already wrote why he's shit. He can't trap the ball, he's not clinical enough, his heading isn't top notch aswell.
The player himself even said a year ago that he plays best as a LW.
 
KikiDaKats said:
Edit
Why is lack of hold up play never brought up when discussing Mbappe?
Click to expand...

Mbappe threw a tantrum and tried to get his manager fired for not playing him on the left. He's not a shining example of shoehorning a LW up top.
 
I think he's brilliant in that center forward position for what he brings. Assessing the performances last season, up until Chelsea at Stamford bridge it was the best football I can recall in terms of the teams performance throughout the season. Rashford was pivotal to that his movement was consistently causing issue and creating chances. The only problem is he wasn't very clinical but its a small caveat when the attack was able to function prior to his influence. It was during this period where Sancho felt like he was a level below the rest of the team which is something I can't see changing in the future due to his mentality.
 
I do wonder if ETH knows we can't afford Kane/Osimhem + he'll be striker this season assuming Martial is injured
Mount + Onana + maybe a CM or young striker
Wouldn't be great but GK would be addressed
 
If this has to be done then -

RaShford
Sancho-Mount-Amad
Bruno-Casemiro

3 Ams trying to play rashford on goal
Mount can play Ram,bruno cam & eriksen at cm as an alt. i just think amad could be good.

​
 
Seems like a moot point given our interest in Hojlund but guys like Haaland, Osimhen etc aren't exactly heavyweights when it comes to link up play.

As long as he gets 30G a season and does the grunt work by working the channels, pressing and so-on, we can easily look past the weaknesses during link up play.
 
Teja said:
Seems like a moot point given our interest in Hojlund but guys like Haaland, Osimhen etc aren't exactly heavyweights when it comes to link up play.

As long as he gets 30G a season and does the grunt work by working the channels, pressing and so-on, we can easily look past the weaknesses during link up play.
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Rashford's biggest problem as a striker is his hold up play and his weakness in challenging defenders for anything.
 
KikiDaKats said:
I don’t understand your point.
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If the player prefers the left he might not appreciate being moved to striker. He might not do an Mbappe but it could still have a bit of a negative effect, like damage his confidence.
 
His weakness in challenging up top really aren't that much better at lw, if anything is worse. Feel like many games you could see the difference in his defending vs the rw. Perhaps eth wants more balance and thinks his offensive output at CF will be just as good. Personally I've been incredibly worried about his overall performances, feel like we have too many players who if they don't pop up with a goal they aren't the type to help us control games.
 
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