I have a feeling we might even go 5 at the back against Madrid. the central lads have been good recently and all can step into midfield and play a pass. That’s the thing about this team, the oceans of untapped potential. If any of our forwards really caught fire to previous levels we’d be a danger to almost anyone.
19
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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- Clean sheets
- 6
- Goals
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- Assists
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- Yellow cards
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- Status
I understand where you’re coming from but we are terrible playing a back 5. It doesn’t generally work. Think we’ll stick with this 433/4231 against Atleti as well.
Just quietly getting on with it and doing his job. He has made a huge difference since we got him back, Rolls Royce indeed.
Outside of his shaky first game back from injury, he has been solid and definitely the best defender on the team by some distance. I just hope he manages to stay fit and can keep building on these performances because he can be a very calming presence.
Man Utd 1:1 Middlesbrough
Oozes class this guy.
He does, just a real shame he's made of dunked rich tea biscuits
Looked so good at times but what was up with the goal? he was pressing way too high up the pitch and Dalot had already gone on the overlapping run in the prior attack.
Was he injured or not when he came off? Best player on the pitch by far tonight.
Should start every game when fit. It's time to build that partnership with Slabhead. Hope he's not injured..
Good defending except for the goal where he was first far out then jogged back casually without any urgency at all. Don’t know why he does that, not the first time and today it came at a very high price.
Majestic for the most part, hope he's not injured.
The only player playing at the highest level.
is it acceptable to feel sorry for a world class player? Varane is different gravy just pity he is a brutal squad
He is so good at reading passes and also in 1vs1's.
Our best defender by far, pity that he seems to get injured easily.
Our best defender by far, pity that he seems to get injured easily.
Didn't put a foot wrong. Classy defender reminds me of our own Rio!
He and Pogba were to blame for the conceded goal though. Way too high up leaving us vulnerable at the back, and then the slow pace jogging on the way back when he sees two players completely free 5 meters in front of him right in front of goal. Had he made more effort when running back we'd probably have won the game. As for Pogba I don't know what the hell he was doing but apparently he was also fine with leaving an opponent completely free right in front of the goal.
Because certain someone didn't work as an unit, and played opposition on side.
He’s a Rolls Royce if he stays fit. Imagine we got Benzema and him that summer. Sick. Modric. They were gettable for us if we went early and hard enough.
Nothing to do with Maguire. Varane decided to go and press in their final third and left the defence massively exposed. Dalot was already high up the pitch. We couldn't afford to have another defender pushing up that high. Maguire was in a no win situation. If he tried to play offside, and it failed, you would be complaining and asking why he tried to do that. If he tries to cover Varane's position, he leaves his own man free, just outside the centre of our own box. Unfortunately, for us, the ball was played perfectly across by their #35 and they take full advantage of the space left by Varane. Pogba also needed to follow their #25 as soon as that pass was played. This goal doesn't happen if Varane holds his position. The cross field pass wouldn't have been on.
@Anders80 is right.
Gen gen pressing is a daring style. See how in the example Matip was pressing high up? In tactical view of gen gen pressing style there is nothing wrong in that because beside the risk, there is reward in winning the ball higher up the pitch. The core principle of gen gen pressing.
Facing rushing counter attack is common for teams using high press strategy. That is why the last line defenders are ultimately important. No need to talk about VVD, and why Liverpool in their position back then willingly forking out the world record fee for VVD to complete the team. Now look at our world record CB in easier situation. Even before we talk about high press, he was terrible in a high line, under Ole and previously at Leicester under Rodgers. He is neither good as a destroyer (the high pressing CB), nor as a sweeper/ last line defender. For what we paid, it's a total failure to transit into modern style that requires a high line, and front foot defending style. Him replacing Smalling is propress wise side way moving. Ironically Smalling at Maguire current age would be much better suited for this kind of defending especially in destroyer role. Current Maguire passing is not that great so there is not much trade off. Smalling is safer passer than current Maguire even.
When a player pressing, he is facing forward. The ones behind him, as part of the system should (trained) position to eliminate "unnatural" free space. See how VVD in the example clip was also higher up in the pitch. The "natural" free space after other players press is one thing, the extra free space created by the last line defender being a pussy backing away/static standing around tactical dumb founds another matter.
In this sequence, we're talking about, if the defensive line was kept higher, it would make the opposition attackers stay further away from goal if he wanted to stay on side: too many extra free space. That margin at this level would be enough for defensive recovery. Varane at last second recovered and got even with the assister. If the last line defenders had (should have) bought Varane a yard or two with the right tactical decision, it would have been a completely different story. Even as it was, Boro player found it hard to control that ball, and had to hand ball it. Making it harder for him and the probability of him fecking up exponentially increases for certain.
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In general there’s nothing wrong with high pressing, but taking the risk as CB with pressing in final third when you’re leading 1-0 in64th minute and dominating the game is not worth it imo. The most likely way they could score was if we screw up in some way and we did. It’s not about that we should back home with all defenders, but it’s not necessary to press with both right CB and right full back in final third.
In Burnley press conference, Ragnick directly addressed this pressing phase. Paraphrasing him here: he thought it was perfect time to counter press. We did well in part of applying the pressuring but ultimately failed to win the ball. So RR doesn't think there is nothing wrong in the decision to press from those of our players. It even sounds to me he wanted us to press more agressively with the ultimate aim to win the ball even.
The issue being discussed here is beside the fine tuning in the pressing game, there is certain players playing outside the system when it comes to the situation aftermath of a failed pressing attempt. Even without pressing, playing with high line, you should still try to implement offside trap. What is the point of one last line defender backing off playing 3 oppositions spreading out in good position on side? It's tactical suicidal. It's a bigger risk than trying the offside trap with a reward of killing their attack, or at least slowing them down (for them to stay on side) getting reinforcement to reorganize the defense. It can only and easily explained that Maguire is too used to low block defending where he instinctually back off without reading the situation because with low block he used to keeping his opposition in front of him. He's not used to stay on shoulder risking a contest of speed for when opposition run in behind. And beside all that, Maguire is not even great last ditch defender. Why inviting even more pressure when he's on his own?
And from what Ragnick said regarding this game, he sounds to me he's not into pragmatic approach. He's happy with overall performance that we totally dominated and the result should have been binned and dusted in the first half. There is disappointment in the result, but his plan is always about to play for the next goal to kill the game. Even if we can't get that second goal, we keep defending on front foot: Win the ball when pressing than backing off and defending low block for one goal lead. That's at this stage in building block, I'm happy and all for it. In another word, you're applying a different mentality and football philosophy to the matter. We can't root in the crossroad forever. Choose a direction and commit to it.
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I think it was an ill-chosen opportunity to press that high up. Gegenpress is fine and all but you shouldn't leave yourself completely exposed like that. Regardless, my issue with Varane and Pogba at the goal was not the pressing in itself, but the fact that they didn't make much effort when running back even though they could clearly see players completley free ahead of them in front of goal. You can't blame them for being tired that early in the game either, because that is not a situation you can just let go. Mistakes happen but clearly Varane primarily and Pogba secondarily were to blame for the goal.
Opinion can be different. We can agree to disagree on the chosen opportunity to press. In this case Ragnick in his Burnley press conference said it was perfect situation to press.
Varane clearly made a effort to recover. Expecting a back and forth full speed printing is unrealistic. Pressing and role switching goes hand to hand at this level. If you have to find fault in Varane effort to track back, then Bruno is the worse offender in this sequence of play. He's not really helping the pressing previously. He's closer to our half, yet he's not covering when he's not pressing. He disappeared at the end when McTominay and Varane made those half ass effort to track back after going through him on their way! Attacking minded player (including Pogba) not putting effort in role switching, but expecting the defensive players like McTominay and Varane to do double the heavy lifting in high pressing and tracking back. Perhaps they forget we're trying to implement total football where everyone need to contribute in team effort depend on the situation.
I find this blaming individual for effort thing is pointless without tactical context. Here the tactical context is Maguire failing to make the pitch small out of possession. Making the pitch larger makes it tougher to defend, and impossible for your teammates to recover lost ground.
Having looked at the goal we conceded I have to wonder why he thought it was a good idea to be so far up the pitch at 1-0. He played well up until then but that was a big error for such an experienced player.
I’m personally a big fan of intense pressing football and really hate possession style, but I don’t think the timing was good and comparing to Liverpool etc is not valid imo, as they have the skill set to press high, we don’t (yet). Anyway, I blame that goal mostly on Varane but the match was not lost because of that. It was lost because we didn’t score more than one goal in 120 minutes against a Championship team. Varane played well except for that occasion.
Maguire is awful as last defender. Can’t think of many worse than him in that role. He is perfect at winning everything in the air but when the ball is played fast on the ground he is lost. Varane one the other hand is one of the best in the world at covering a big space behind the line. However he is not so good at winning back the ball high up, seen that both at Madrid, French NT and United.
This is the problem.
Top quality players come in look good, months down the line get dragged down to the dross we have.
Also what I've thought for years. Utd don't have a culture of being tactically relevant, and this started during Fergie's final years. As a result, incompetence is the norm, and becomes learned behaviour for every new recruit. Doesn't matter if you're Pogba or Varane, and doesn't matter if there are some exceptions to the rule. It's like a virus, infecting everyone who comes near it.
Want to see how he does against the better teams. We should know by the end of March how good a signing he might be.
That's the key, isn't it? We have a manager that thinks that it's worth it, so it's hard to blame players for actually following through.
Hope he's ready for a fun evening tonight against a giant and non-stop long balls!
I watched the Boro game late, but thought he was majestic and is in really good form at the moment. We need to get him in a partnership though, as we haven’t had a consistent one this season.
I’m not sure. Just because he wants them to press doesn’t mean they should do it in any fashion. There were already 2 midfielders close to the opponent, 1 of them in perfect position and already pressing. Varane also running to the situation was not necessary. I don’t think this was a well executed press at all. Imo, this is a situation where one or two of the midfielders (already in position) should press and the CBs should mark the 1-2 attacking opponent players to stop them from receiving long balls.
Sorry for the blurry pic but I think it shows what I mean.
That picture does not do justice to explain this sequence of play.
That Boro dribbler was originally tightly marked by Varane. Varane stopped Boro dribbler for the earlier counter attacking opportunity. He was forced to turn back and run toward Bruno, who half ass pressed and moved out of the way instead of making a serious tackle or cynical tactical foul. Bruno was terrible in his attempt of pressing. He's the main culprit for this pressing failure. Bruno also failed to notice and track a free runner when he was closer to him and had this runner in his vision field. Varane and McTominay after putting effort to press, also putting more effort to recover lost ground.
Your still picture is the split second moment after Bruno stepped aside from Boro ball carrier. McTominay and Varane freaked out by Bruno decision, and decided to follow with another pressure.
Full sequence starts around 1:09 in this highlight
Pogba initially made effort to track back, but he couldn't read the danger to go full throttle to mark the eventual goal scorer. Of course, IMO the sole issue when regrouping after a failed pressing attempt lies with Maguire's failure to make the pitch small via an offside trap.
The pressing game should be improved, and in this case Bruno putting the right amount of effort in via a good tackle or tactical foul, and the goal would have been easily prevented. Bruno has been very tactical indisciplined for so long. Unlike Maguire who seems not have the ability to read the situation, Bruno clearly can arrive at the right place and the right time. Bruno for some weird reason has been over the place with his decision making.
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As I just replied to your more recent post with explanation of the full sequence of play, let's agree to disagree here.
The example Liverpool video is for comparison purpose of one of CB had to push up and tightly press opposition second highest attacker. It's the same principle among pressing teams. Liverpool risked more in that situation than us leading 1-0. The game was at 1-1 in last minutes. VVD did well, but it's also a huge Sissoko feck up moment. This same situation and a better player in place of Sissoko, and it would have well resulted in goal for Tottenham, VVD world class defending or not. What it tells us is when a manager subscribes to this philosophy & mentality, they're ready to take this risk because they believe in their tactic for its long term benefit.
IIRC, Liverpool even won this game afterward with a late goal moment away from this narrow escape. This is the season where Liverpool finished second with record 97 points. They were in title race, and putting everything on the line risking a defeat to turn a draw into a victory! Correct me if I am wrong here.
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Burnley 1:1 Man Utd
This guys is fecking amazing and it’s a real shame he has to be partnered by a fridge-freezer.
World class.
He must have a picture of ramos as his screen background and cries every night
From playing with Ramos to Maguire..:
Very classy player, even the way he passes the ball is class and apparently he’s not a ball playing centre back either.
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