[Sylar]

I feel the Varane criticism is too harsh.

It's hardly his fault he got covid. He's been by far our best defender and it's shown in most games he's played. Our defence is much better with him in it.

Not a big positive though, given hes had some stinkers and has had costly mistakes leading to goals too.
And the issue is the 'most games hes played' rather than most games United have played.

 

[SATA]

As long as he makes it against Atletico for the second leg

 

[Offsideagain]

Varane is class buy injury prone. He’s not big and robust as your typical English centre back, but has a football brain. Pity he’s partnered by such a muppet as Maguire.

 

[United in sin]

Varane is class buy injury prone. He’s not big and robust as your typical English centre back, but has a football brain. Pity he’s partnered by such a muppet as Maguire.

Hope he can stay fit and Covid free til the end of the season. It's crazy how some of our worst players are also the least injury prone

 

[Fredo]

Does anyone here see Varane being good for us so far (bar the early games)? He hasn't really struck me as the same player that was in Madrid, shows the importance of Ramos next to him during those years I would say...

 

[El Jefe]

Does anyone here see Varane being good for us so far (bar the early games)? He hasn't really struck me as the same player that was in Madrid, shows the importance of Ramos next to him during those years I would say...

He's been good to me but he's only been a marginal improvement on our defence. When you make big CB signings you hope that they not only play well individually but lead the back 4 and raise the level of the defence like how VVD and Thiago Silva have. Varane hasn't been good enough to do that so its easy to see why some aren't really impressed.

He's been our best CB for me and usually plays well but he's not quite at the level of being a lone difference maker. His good performances will be rewarded more when we get a solid DM and another full back.

 

[PoTMS]

I don't think he's been our best centre back this season. Lindelof has been better than him. I guess it helps that he can stay fit longer than just a few games.

 

[Rozay]

He is very good.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

It’s no surprise we win more games when he’s in the team.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Does anyone here see Varane being good for us so far (bar the early games)? He hasn't really struck me as the same player that was in Madrid, shows the importance of Ramos next to him during those years I would say...

I thought he was not good today. He escapes criticism because he’s got that shiny new signing aura. That will wear off soon though. To be fair, he won’t be at his best until he plays a run of games. The fact he hasn’t yet played a run of games and we’re in mid-March is a worry.

 

[cyberman]

Thought he played well. Maguire too oddly enough. They shut off the space and marked well when they cut in down the sides

 

[Abraxas]

He hasn't really brought the authority I thought he might. You can see he has a bit of pace, and in theory he's got bags of experience and quality but it doesn't really amount to anything. We look shaky every time he's on the pitch. We look shaky with anyone on the pitch but you certainly cannot seriously claim that the experience is amounting to any calmness or organisation.

I would guess the stop start nature of his season doesn't help but that could be a perennial issue so we can't rely on that. Hopefully he'll be better for this first season.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Varane is clearly our best centre back but he’s hardly been a transformative signing in any way, which is a little disappointing.

 

[A-man]

Struggled a little in first half but but ok in second. I always thought his strength was defending the space behind him but I think he has failed that quite a lot lately. We need a better performance from him, and many others, to win against Atletico.

 

[DRJosh]

Varane is clearly our best centre back but he’s hardly been a transformative signing in any way, which is a little disappointing.

He was typically surrounded by world class athletes at Real. At United, he does not have the same level of insurance and thus keeps it largely conservative at the back.

 

[Rozay]

Simply not good enough. Meant to be an attacking fullback but never went on the overlap.

He’s a fecking centre half.

 

[Bobski]

Shadow of the player he was circa 2017.

 

[Zoo]

He’s a fecking centre half.

Wrong thread. Varane was fine.

 

[Rozay]

He played well tonight. A lot better than his partner.

 

[Based Adnan]

Should be asking for a new partner in the summer

 

[Andycoleno9]

He should play with Lindelof.
And stay as captain

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

He was typically surrounded by world class athletes at Real. At United, he does not have the same level of insurance and thus keeps it largely conservative at the back.

I think if Varane had a faster CB partner we could play a completely different way. Lump him with Maguire and he has to step back half a yard.

 

[Strats]

The only one in our back four who didn’t look out of place. With a bit of luck he would have got us the equalizer.

Oblak was perfectly positioned for his header, if Varane would have been able to get it to the far post it would have gone in

Seeing Harry fecking Maguire playing next to him is a pisstake

 

[jasT1981]

ugh

 

[Utd heap]

There's a high chance he'll leave without me ever knowing if he was any good for us or not.

 

[nainaisson]

He should play with Lindelof.
And stay as captain

Was it the two goals conceded in four minutes at Villa that convinced you he and Lindelof would make a great centre-back partnership?

Bailly and Lindelof would struggle to start for Everton, but according to a large section of our fanbase, they're somehow going to improve our defence by partnering with Varane. It's bewildering. It reminds me of all those fans clamoring for Van de Beek to start -- the less you play the more likely you're the answer to all our problems.

 

[kirk buttercup]

He was typically surrounded by world class athletes at Real. At United, he does not have the same level of insurance and thus keeps it largely conservative at the back.

How can you Soar like an Eagle when you are sorrounded by budgies

 

[JB7]

Comments are funny. De Gea made Ferdinand and Vidic look shadows of themselves and 11 years later we're still shocked that every centre half we sign goes to shit in front of him.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

He's got really thin legs for a footballer, like he skipped leg day in the gym. Specially his calves.

 

[United in sin]

Comments are funny. De Gea made Ferdinand and Vidic look shadows of themselves and 11 years later we're still shocked that every centre half we sign goes to shit in front of him.

What horseshite. Both of those players were done at the top level at the end of their time here and you're heaping blame on a young De Gea who was just coming into his own? He was 22 years old ffs and in a battle with Lindegard for the number one spot that he won handily

 

[JB7]

What horseshite. Both of those players were done at the top level at the end of their time here and you're heaping blame on a young De Gea who was just coming into his own? He was 22 years old ffs and in a battle with Lindegard for the number one spot that he won handily

They were on their way out but to call them "done" is a bit of stretch given they'd been in the Champions League final literally months before we signed him. I mention them because they were the first to play in front of him for us and Varane is the most recent signing. Of course they regressed but the case in point is still correct, centre halves go to shit in front of him for a multitude of reasons namely; he literally doesn't speak on the football pitch so defenders do not get the usual shouts to expect from their goalkeeper, he's doesn't leave his line to deal with crosses (you think we concede the Kompany header in 2012 that lost us the title with VDS in goal? No chance. 10 years on and he's still the worst keeper in the league on crosses), he doesn't make himself an option in or out of possession to get the defenders out of tight spots (people say this is a modern trait, no it's not, his predecessor had been doing it for years). I could go on but I won't because this is the Varane thread but the reality is that we could literally have peak Rio and Vidic and they'd be shadows of themselves with this goalkeeper behind them; we're seeing this with a defender who has been world class for many years in Varane being the latest to struggle in front of him.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Comments are funny. De Gea made Ferdinand and Vidic look shadows of themselves and 11 years later we're still shocked that every centre half we sign goes to shit in front of him.

DDG played for Ivory Coast and damaged Varane's foot. Arrest him.

 

[United in sin]

They were on their way out but to call them "done" is a bit of stretch given they'd been in the Champions League final literally months before we signed him. I mention them because they were the first to play in front of him for us and Varane is the most recent signing. Of course they regressed but the case in point is still correct, centre halves go to shit in front of him for a multitude of reasons namely; he literally doesn't speak on the football pitch so defenders do not get the usual shouts to expect from their goalkeeper, he's doesn't leave his line to deal with crosses (you think we concede the Kompany header in 2012 that lost us the title with VDS in goal? No chance. 10 years on and he's still the worst keeper in the league on crosses), he doesn't make himself an option in or out of possession to get the defenders out of tight spots (people say this is a modern trait, no it's not, his predecessor had been doing it for years). I could go on but I won't because this is the Varane thread but the reality is that we could literally have peak Rio and Vidic and they'd be shadows of themselves with this goalkeeper behind them; we're seeing this with a defender who has been world class for many years in Varane being the latest to struggle in front of him.

I'm simply not having all this blame you're laying at De Gea's feet for uniteds defensive frailties down the years as if he's fecking Massimo Tiabi

 

[Metal]

I'm simply not having all this blame you're laying at De Gea's feet for uniteds defensive frailties down the years as if he's fecking Massimo Tiabi

It's standard theme. There's always someone else to blame or some outside factor for one of our player being a dud or underperforming. For rashford it's the euro's penalty miss( even though Saka missed one too yet his season is blooming) his shoulder, Jose, the Tories .

With Sancho it's Alex Telles fault, the system, not being played in the right position.

For Ronaldo, it's the midfielders not giving him service even though we have created the most chances recently.

Maguire it's Euro's hangover.

Luke Shaw Euro's hangover

And now Verane can't keep fit and be the commanding defence force that he was bought for is because of De Gea behind him.

Laughable the measures people will go to defend certain favourites.

There's a reason Real Madrid let him go for so cheap. They knew his injury history and knew he was on the wane, but as usual we didn't do our due diligence in finding this out. Ole just saw a big name superstar, didn't have a clue how he'd fit in, just thought he'd be the missing piece to his problems and here we go again. He did it with Maguire, he did it with AWB and Sancho.

Compare how thorough Liverpool do their background checks and research on players to see how they will adapt to their system is night and day. Do you think Ole and his mate fletcher were considering these factors when they threw the chequebook at the likes of Maguire, Sancho, Ronaldo and Varane

Klopp ''There is a reason why you sign a player. The reason is the quality that he has. The reason is the way that he is playing the game." But with Diaz, as with so many of Liverpool's signings, there was a logic to targeting him beyond his ability - they believed he would adapt.

"With Luis, where it has been really special is that when we saw him we knew that he would fit in immediately," explains Klopp. "That is really difficult usually but because he did not have to change, that is why we have a really confident boy here.

"He was in a really good moment with Porto, playing good for Colombia, and so he came here full of confidence. But what we tried to make sure is that he does not lose that because of the playbook as we tell him that he has to do this and he has to do that.

he company would go on to employ Michael Edwards, now Liverpool's sporting director. Mylvaganam's latest venture, AI Abacus, crunched the numbers on Diaz.

"Just before he moved to Liverpool, our models suggested that Diaz should theoretically hit the ground running, largely due to the similarities of playing styles between Liverpool and Porto," Andy Forrester, product manager at AI Abacus, tells Sky Sports.

The model factors in just about every measurable aspect of a team's style of play. Liverpool are better. But Porto try to do the same things. "In terms of tempo, high press, counter-press, defensive line and build up, the two teams are almost identical," adds Forrester.


This modelling looks beyond the formations that would have suggested Diaz was playing in a 4-4-2 at Porto. "The reality of it is that when you watch Porto, they play so high in possession anyway that he practically takes up the same positions on the pitch.

"We simulated targets that Liverpool had been linked with and Diaz came out as the clear winner in having the highest predicted chemistry with the Liverpool squad. It specifically predicted he would link up well with Andy Robertson, Diogo Jota and Harvey Elliot."

Diaz's counter-pressing score in the AI Abacus model was even better than Sadio Mane - just below that of Roberto Firmino. Significantly, it was "a lot higher than a lot of the other targets they had been linked with" - another reason why he was the right choice

https://www.skysports.com/football/...view-luis-diazs-impact-at-liverpool-explained

 

[United in sin]

It's standard theme. There's always someone else to blame or some outside factor for one of our player being a dud or underperforming. For rashford it's the euro's penalty miss( even though Saka missed one too yet his season is blooming) his shoulder, Jose, the Tories .

With Sancho it's Alex Telles fault, the system, not being played in the right position.

For Ronaldo, it's the midfielders not giving him service even though we have created the most chances recently.

Maguire it's Euro's hangover.

Luke Shaw Euro's hangover

And now Verane can't keep fit and be the commanding defence force that he was bought for is because of De Gea behind him.

Laughable the measures people will go to defend certain favourites.

There's a reason Real Madrid let him go for so cheap. They knew his injury history and knew he was on the wane, but as usual we didn't do our due diligence in finding this out. Ole just saw a big name superstar, didn't have a clue how he'd fit in, just thought he'd be the missing piece to his problems and here we go again. He did it with Maguire, he did it with AWB and Sancho.

Compare how thorough Liverpool do their background checks and research on players to see how they will adapt to their system is night and day. Do you think Ole and his mate fletcher were considering these factors when they threw the chequebook at the likes of Maguire, Sancho, Ronaldo and Varane

Klopp ''There is a reason why you sign a player. The reason is the quality that he has. The reason is the way that he is playing the game." But with Diaz, as with so many of Liverpool's signings, there was a logic to targeting him beyond his ability - they believed he would adapt.

"With Luis, where it has been really special is that when we saw him we knew that he would fit in immediately," explains Klopp. "That is really difficult usually but because he did not have to change, that is why we have a really confident boy here.

"He was in a really good moment with Porto, playing good for Colombia, and so he came here full of confidence. But what we tried to make sure is that he does not lose that because of the playbook as we tell him that he has to do this and he has to do that.

he company would go on to employ Michael Edwards, now Liverpool's sporting director. Mylvaganam's latest venture, AI Abacus, crunched the numbers on Diaz.

"Just before he moved to Liverpool, our models suggested that Diaz should theoretically hit the ground running, largely due to the similarities of playing styles between Liverpool and Porto," Andy Forrester, product manager at AI Abacus, tells Sky Sports.

The model factors in just about every measurable aspect of a team's style of play. Liverpool are better. But Porto try to do the same things. "In terms of tempo, high press, counter-press, defensive line and build up, the two teams are almost identical," adds Forrester.


This modelling looks beyond the formations that would have suggested Diaz was playing in a 4-4-2 at Porto. "The reality of it is that when you watch Porto, they play so high in possession anyway that he practically takes up the same positions on the pitch.

"We simulated targets that Liverpool had been linked with and Diaz came out as the clear winner in having the highest predicted chemistry with the Liverpool squad. It specifically predicted he would link up well with Andy Robertson, Diogo Jota and Harvey Elliot."

Diaz's counter-pressing score in the AI Abacus model was even better than Sadio Mane - just below that of Roberto Firmino. Significantly, it was "a lot higher than a lot of the other targets they had been linked with" - another reason why he was the right choice

https://www.skysports.com/football/...view-luis-diazs-impact-at-liverpool-explained

Good post. Scapegoating is rife among the fanbase.

As for the rest, it's no wonder City and Liverpool have left us in the dust and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. United is simply nowhere near that level of detail and clinical precision in our operations and structural coordination.

We have 'restructured' with the same players who got us in this mess. Some will say this is self loathing, it's simply the ugly truth

 

[Marwood]

They were on their way out but to call them "done" is a bit of stretch given they'd been in the Champions League final literally months before we signed him. I mention them because they were the first to play in front of him for us and Varane is the most recent signing. Of course they regressed but the case in point is still correct, centre halves go to shit in front of him for a multitude of reasons namely; he literally doesn't speak on the football pitch so defenders do not get the usual shouts to expect from their goalkeeper, he's doesn't leave his line to deal with crosses (you think we concede the Kompany header in 2012 that lost us the title with VDS in goal? No chance. 10 years on and he's still the worst keeper in the league on crosses), he doesn't make himself an option in or out of possession to get the defenders out of tight spots (people say this is a modern trait, no it's not, his predecessor had been doing it for years). I could go on but I won't because this is the Varane thread but the reality is that we could literally have peak Rio and Vidic and they'd be shadows of themselves with this goalkeeper behind them; we're seeing this with a defender who has been world class for many years in Varane being the latest to struggle in front of him.

But Varane's biggest problem is staying fit right?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He’s made of glass isn’t he? Feck’s sake. Another one.

 

[JB7]

I'm simply not having all this blame you're laying at De Gea's feet for uniteds defensive frailties down the years as if he's fecking Massimo Tiabi

Where have I said it's always his fault? He's a massive contributing factor but by no means the only issue. He is the only one we haven't actually tried to replace though, especially given that generally speaking we have defended better as a unit with both Romero and Henderson in goal at different stages instead of him.

As for the post you've quoted saying it's a good post, it's not a good post at all, certainly not in the first half of the post - the second half makes a very valid point (and basically explains exactly why no other decent team would touch DDG with a barge pole). All of the players mentioned at different points have been shite this season and I don't think I've ever quoted any of those supposed things he thinks people are blaming (other than Varane in front of DDG but that goes for literally any defender), sounds like garbled press talk if you ask me. If a player is shite, I'll call them on it, I don't overly have favourites in the team and at this point there are no excuses to make for players. There is certainly no reason for me to defend Varane and his inability to stay fit but in terms of defending centre backs over the past 10 years, which is what I was responding to the last 2 or 3 pages of this thread as a whole with my comment and it's not incorrect. I don't care who you bring in to play in front of DDG, it could be Van Dijk and 98/99 Jaap Stam and they'd be made to look like idiots in front of him.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Comments are funny. De Gea made Ferdinand and Vidic look shadows of themselves and 11 years later we're still shocked that every centre half we sign goes to shit in front of him.

that'd be the 34yo Rio and the 31yo Vidic who busted his ACL a few months into Dave being here right? They were done anyway. Johnny Evans was getting more minutes than both of them by then.

 

[JB7]

that'd be the 34yo Rio and the 31yo Vidic who busted his ACL a few months into Dave being here right? They were done anyway. Johnny Evans was getting more minutes than both of them by then.

Rio played more than Evans that season if you want to get into technicalities, Vidic played plenty of football in the following two season. Nobodies saying they were the players they were it's the general point which is the issue and has been the issue for 11 years now. But that's fine we'll all continue to pretend it's constantly the defence at fault for things that a proper goalkeeper deals with in their sleep.